1st Dan Testing Fee

[YoungMan]

Charging a lot for a Dan test should not be a problem if what you offer is comparable to what you charge.
For example, if you charge $500 for a 1st Dan test, and your school is run by someone who has very little, if any, credibility outside a small circle, that could be a problem.
If you charge $200-300, but you get recognition from an internationally known body, a test overseen by many legitimately ranked master instructors, and a certificate issued by an instructor with international credibility, I really don't see that as a problem. I'd be willing to pay for that.
My analogy is this: Harvard costs an arm and a leg to attend. But when you're finished, you have a diploma from possibly the greatest school in the country.

 

[tshadowchaser]

my question on charging for the test has always been Who gets the money and why.
If I have trained with in the system for "X" number of years and know the material why do I have to pay to be tested? Dose it really cost that much to produce a pieace of paper with my name on it? Have I not earned the right to be tested based on my time in system and my accomplishments? Why should I pay those I may have never met to sign my papers?
Not trying to start a war of words but I have always thought that paying for any test was just a way to put more money in the instructors or someone’s pocket

 

[terryl965]

Tshadowchaser, here is a breakdown for my school for a BB test. My initial cost is $100.00 per tester, they recive a house certificate a new uniform and there belt. If they want a KKW certificate it is an additional $90.00 plus around $10.00 shipping and I get it back in about 6 weeks. If they want a board to be present for some reason then I tell them they need to pay each Master for there time and they work that out thereself.

I agree if I know why do I need to pay.

 

[Twin Fist]

well, my BB test with Dr Boyd was free. His logic is since we had been teaching for 2 years at that point, he owed it to us.We got a belt, but no uniform, etc. All his BB tests were free.

The school I got my 2nd Dan from, BB tests cost started at 100, 2nd was 150, etc but we got an embroidered belt, and boards were provided for the breaking, etc.

And as I have already stated, I have no interest in a KKW cert, but if that costs money, and the BB candidate wants one, then that costs should be added to the testing fee.

People do what works for them.

 

[Jim Greenwood]

I charge a fee for BB test to cover boards, concrete, embroidered belt, certificate, my time to run the average 6 hour BB test just for one person, the time of other instructors on the testing board. If you had a school would you not feel your time and signature is worth something. I feel 6 hours of my time doing martial arts is well worth $150 if not more. IT is part of my living and what I do to support my family and 6 to 7 hours away from my family is worth more than nothing. Plus with that bb I am backing my students if the want to open and run a school so they can make money. I pay for my testing and I don't get free anything... I paid my dues with time, pain and sweat and yes money. If you feel geting your black belt is worth nothing then.... well. I don't think you should be over charged for it but it does cost for what you get. If you don't like the high prices of your current organization find one that is cheeper that you like.

 

[Twin Fist]

Jim,
I dont know your system, but I know how much it takes to fill up 6 hours of floor time.....I cant really see needing 6 HOURS for a BB test, but whatever. Thats going to be dependant on the system.

Recouping expenses is fine, plus I can understand that people take something more seriously if they had to pay for it, but I just dont see a BB test a a chance to make money off my students. I see it as a chance to celebrate my students achievement.

I am opening my dojo next month, so it will be a long time before I have to worry about it, but my plan is to have the BB test be free. Or at least to not cost any more than what i will be spending on materials and a new belt for them.

Thats just my opinion, i am not knocking anyone.

 

[Jim Greenwood]

An adult white belt testing for yellow belt takes about 30 minutes (with my tests) and that's about average for each color belt level. I have them go thru everything for each color belt for a black belt test plus extra stuff that black belts need to do for their test and a few breaks (bathroom, drinks and resting time). Then I have a saki ceremony and black belt presentation directly after (if they pass, I have never had anyone fail a BB test and have over 25 Black Belts under me in the last 15 years of teaching).

Thank you for your oppinion.

 

[Twin Fist]

yeah, thats one thing I saw at my Kenpo school, the tests were just the new material. We didnt have to get tested on the stuff from the last belt.

In TKD, each test started from the bottom up, from the first kata to the last.

I prefere the latter. But I can see doing it either way. Like I have said all along, we will all have ideas about what is proper and best, and thats ok.

 

[Jim Greenwood]

I was just explaining why my tests are so long. I used to have them spar mostly controlled full contact for an hour but eliminated that and reduced it to 3 six minute rounds with a 1 minute break between each round.

However any instructor does their testing is up to them… Myself I prefer to make sure every black belt that walks out my door can do EVERYTHING I require for every belt…. Or they don’t deserve a black belt under me if they can’t remember and perform each basic requirement.


Now as for the original question…. I charge for everything I do at my school. Every time I go up there I am getting paid… If not then I’m not there (unless I’m cleaning). I have bills to pay up there also… the city utility office isn’t going give me a break if I have to keep it warm there more on that day for that test if it’s a free test. If you don’t run it like a business and give things away you won’t be teaching long because you will be out of business. My time is valuable to me and I want paid for it. If people don’t want to pay it then that’s fine with me… don’t. I don’t think I over charge by any means. The embroidered belts I get for my black belts cost me over $50 plus shipping. Paying for a test is no different than paying any other business for something… you have a choice about how much you pay and for what you get. Do you want a Ford Focus or a Lexus or do you want something less? They all do basically the same thing but what is your certificate and the people who signed it worth? If you think $100 is high or $500 is high for what you are getting then guess what.. It is… if you think it is a fair price for what you are getting then it is.

 

[igillman]

Having read this entire thread so far (and being responsible for starting it) I think that I will take a close look at what a black belt test involves, what we get from it and what each of us can do with what we get.

I am in it for the fitness (going to the gym is boring) so, for me, a $500 test is not worth it. I can stay a green belt and get exactly the same from the classes as I would if I was a blue/brown/red/black etc...

For my kids it is a bit different. One of them wants to join the coastguard and a black belt would not hurt his chances and may even help him. That is when the $500 test may possibly be worth it. However, he is also in the sea cadets so that has priority over a black belt as it will help him a lot more.

One of my daughters is very good at TKD right now. Our school is now affiliated with the USA Tae Kwon Do group (US Olympic people) so if she is really good and at the right age then a $500 test would help her greatly, especially if she has the chance to go for an Olympic place.

I may end up going for a black belt eventually but what with prices going up all over the place and paycheques not moving up so much it is going to have to wait until after the kids have left home.

At $150 it was something we could all go for, at $500 we now need to consider what it will do for us. It was the price increase that got me too...

Around $150 - Before USA Tae Kwon Do affiliation.
$500 - After USA Tae Kwon Do affiliation.

 

[Jim Greenwood]

Sounds like you got it figured out. Do what works best for you and your family and enjoy your training and learning together.

 

[Twin Fist]

exactly right.

Do what works for you.

I can certainly understand your concern gillman, I mean, your price increased for no real reason (that you can see) and it increased a LOT. It wouldnt be prudent for you to just accept it without thought.

 

[rchurch]

This is my first post here. I joined because my 18 year old son has opened a stidio under his Grandmaster and I'm trying to learn all I can about the business side of martial arts (it's my money that opened the studio!).

After reading these posts about costs here's where we stand: he was told by the GM that he needed to be a 1st dan to be a TKD instructor. He has studied kung fu for 6 years, and when he started talking to the GM about a studio she told him he needed to be a TKD instuctor also, because he would have more students to help pay the bills. I agree, more kids are interested in TKD than kung fu. She charged him $7,000 for his 1st dan belt and instructor's certification from kukkiwon. 6 months later, she informed that the kkw has now said he has to be a 2nd dan to be a studio owner. Another $4,000. When I questioned these costs, her answer is always, "It's the federation, not me, and you don't understand how martial arts business works. You have to just trust me." Maybe I don't know how martial arts business works, but I know how general business works, and this is outrageous. Now she is saying he won't receive his kkw certification for the studio for up to 5 years, because "that's how they do business." Am I being ripped off (as I feel I am) and what can I do at this point? Thanks for any input on this!

 

[terryl965]

This is my first post here. I joined because my 18 year old son has opened a stidio under his Grandmaster and I'm trying to learn all I can about the business side of martial arts (it's my money that opened the studio!).

After reading these posts about costs here's where we stand: he was told by the GM that he needed to be a 1st dan to be a TKD instructor. He has studied kung fu for 6 years, and when he started talking to the GM about a studio she told him he needed to be a TKD instuctor also, because he would have more students to help pay the bills. I agree, more kids are interested in TKD than kung fu. She charged him $7,000 for his 1st dan belt and instructor's certification from kukkiwon. 6 months later, she informed that the kkw has now said he has to be a 2nd dan to be a studio owner. Another $4,000. When I questioned these costs, her answer is always, "It's the federation, not me, and you don't understand how martial arts business works. You have to just trust me." Maybe I don't know how martial arts business works, but I know how general business works, and this is outrageous. Now she is saying he won't receive his kkw certification for the studio for up to 5 years, because "that's how they do business." Am I being ripped off (as I feel I am) and what can I do at this point? Thanks for any input on this!

Bottom Line Yes a KKW certificate is only worth $70.00 US and another $10.00 or so for shipping it takes only maybe 6 weeks to get it back. That is a 1st degree, as far as an Instructor certificate you need to go to Korea and take the instructor course but it is not mandatory to open a school. She is telling you Lies, that is the bottom line period. Damm for $11000.00 dollars we can go to korea train and do the instructor course and go to the Bahama's for a couple of weeks and party like a mad man.
Please the website for the KKW is http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/index.jsp check it out for yourself and call her on it. These types of people need to quite ripping the general public off.

 

[IcemanSK]

This is my first post here. I joined because my 18 year old son has opened a stidio under his Grandmaster and I'm trying to learn all I can about the business side of martial arts (it's my money that opened the studio!).

After reading these posts about costs here's where we stand: he was told by the GM that he needed to be a 1st dan to be a TKD instructor. He has studied kung fu for 6 years, and when he started talking to the GM about a studio she told him he needed to be a TKD instuctor also, because he would have more students to help pay the bills. I agree, more kids are interested in TKD than kung fu. She charged him $7,000 for his 1st dan belt and instructor's certification from kukkiwon. 6 months later, she informed that the kkw has now said he has to be a 2nd dan to be a studio owner. Another $4,000. When I questioned these costs, her answer is always, "It's the federation, not me, and you don't understand how martial arts business works. You have to just trust me." Maybe I don't know how martial arts business works, but I know how general business works, and this is outrageous. Now she is saying he won't receive his kkw certification for the studio for up to 5 years, because "that's how they do business." Am I being ripped off (as I feel I am) and what can I do at this point? Thanks for any input on this!

I second Terry's thoughts. That is an outrageous amount of money & not at all what a KKW cert. costs. In big letter Yes, you are being ripped off!

It's time to look elsewhere.

 

[MeatWad2]

I paid $250 for my black belt, but that was in Kempo...and that was in 1995. I know the organization I was formerly with now charges $300.

 

[Twin Fist]

You are not being ripped off, you are being RAPED.

If you havnt paid this money yet, DONT

If you have, CALL A LAWYER

SUE to get this back, and contact the KKW to let them know this THIEF is out there.

Am I being ripped off (as I feel I am) and what can I do at this point? Thanks for any input on this!

 

[jks9199]

This is my first post here. I joined because my 18 year old son has opened a stidio under his Grandmaster and I'm trying to learn all I can about the business side of martial arts (it's my money that opened the studio!).

After reading these posts about costs here's where we stand: he was told by the GM that he needed to be a 1st dan to be a TKD instructor. He has studied kung fu for 6 years, and when he started talking to the GM about a studio she told him he needed to be a TKD instuctor also, because he would have more students to help pay the bills. I agree, more kids are interested in TKD than kung fu. She charged him $7,000 for his 1st dan belt and instructor's certification from kukkiwon. 6 months later, she informed that the kkw has now said he has to be a 2nd dan to be a studio owner. Another $4,000. When I questioned these costs, her answer is always, "It's the federation, not me, and you don't understand how martial arts business works. You have to just trust me." Maybe I don't know how martial arts business works, but I know how general business works, and this is outrageous. Now she is saying he won't receive his kkw certification for the studio for up to 5 years, because "that's how they do business." Am I being ripped off (as I feel I am) and what can I do at this point? Thanks for any input on this!

Sounds like you're being suckered into a pyramid scheme to support the original instructor's school... How much support and guidance are they providing to run the school? I'd be extremely hesitant about a school owner who's 18, with (if I read you correctly) no real TKD training, but 5 years of kung fu training. Especially as the economy is slowing, and people will be slowing their discretionary and luxury spending. If you look at the various threads here about school ownership, you'll see that it's NOT exactly a quick path to fortune and riches...

I'd suggest that your 18 year old invest that money instead into some business classes while continuing to train, and get legitimate, not bought & paid for, rank in anything he intends to teach.

 

[Kacey]

I second Terry's thoughts. That is an outrageous amount of money & not at all what a KKW cert. costs. In big letter Yes, you are being ripped off!

It's time to look elsewhere.

What they said. I paid $450 for my IV Dan about 3 years ago. Had I wanted an ITF certificate, it would have been another $90 or so. I have been an instructor since I was a I Dan, which started when I was teaching for another instructor; I've had my own class for 16 or 17 years. While I've taken several instructor's courses, the cost was generally several hundred - not several thousand - dollars. When I started my own class, my instructor didn't ask for money - he sat me down and explained the responsibility I was taking on, and made damn sure I knew what I was getting into before I started; since then, he's supported me every way he could, but rank was not the relevant factor; opportunity and desire were the keys. You are being ripped off in a serious fashion.

 

[Twin Fist]

everytime i think about this i get a little bit more mad