Starting a new Karate dojo

[Flying Crane]

Ok, some more questions. I was looking at the videos of the two kata that you created. The text accompanying those videos suggests that they are the only kata in your curriculum. Is this true? If not, what other kata do you teach, and from where do they come (what martial system, not simply what was taught at the Minnesota school). If true, why did you see the need to create them, why are you not including kata that you learned in Minnesota, or if kata was not taught in Minnesota, why do you want to include it now?

A beginner student may never consider to ask these questions. An experienced fellow will. I think this just raises questions that you need to be prepared to answer. These kata seem pretty minimal to me and systems that integrate kata as a major aspect of the curriculum typically have a more robust body of work to that end. That isn’t always the case, but it is more typical. There may be good reasons for deviating from what is typical. But you need to have good answers for this kind of question.

 

[philwhite43 1]

Thanks for the feedback. The school I trained at was not part of a larger association. When I moved, I was done with them and my advancement with them ended. I won't ever claim to be more than a 2nd degree with my old school. I'm doing things slightly differently with my school and I'm sure some tradtionalist may disagree with this but I'm ok with that. I think you are right that I could include a bit more history on the website which I probably will, however I do plan on teaching some of this in the classroom.

The belts in my school are representative of my teaching and relevant only to my school. Just like my 2nd degree was relevant to my old school. And yes we are breaking with the liniage system but still using a ruleset and including testing for my rank to allow for a pathway for students to move up beyond 1st degree black belts. I started doing karate 32 years ago. The system I created allows me to grow with my students and caps things off before it gets inflated. It is what it is and I think its a fair compromise. If I ever assume a 5th degree, I'll have nearly 40 years of experience doing MAs. Its just like a MMA school adopting belt ranks. It means something to them. Thats what matters. I feel like I'm transparent in what I'm doing but I can't please everyone.

As for as kata, it is not a primary focus of what we do so we are a little lighter here. We are more focused on sparring, fitness, and technique application. My school in Minnesota had its own set of forms (they did not use TKD forms) and I feel like it would have been wrong to copy their work. They also used the TKD way of making every belt advancement mostly about memorizing a new form. Its the easy way to test people and make money. Students memorized a form, passed a test, forgot it, moved on. I don't love that. By creating these forms, they have meaning to me and I can explain them to my students.

 

[philwhite43 1]

A beginner student may never consider to ask these questions. An experienced fellow will. I think this just raises questions that you need to be prepared to answer.

I agree with you here. Our new students are on the beginner side but I know what you mean. I know there are those who feel their rank means more than life itself and will seemingly die defending it. They should probably watch some youtube videos because there are some pretty "interesting" people out there with "very high" ranks "officially" earned. Lots of quotes for sarcasm.

I feel like I'm building a solid school. We may not be the most elite training center in the the world but we are honest about who we are and what we're doing. At this point I'm teaching TKD basics to mostly children. They love coming out and having fun. And if thats what they get out of it, I'm happy.

We are relatively new to our town and doing this is our way to reach out and get involved with the community and share something we love and put a lot of work into.

 

[skribs113 134]

Thanks for the feedback. The school I trained at was not part of a larger association. When I moved, I was done with them and my advancement with them ended. I won't ever claim to be more than a 2nd degree with my old school. I'm doing things slightly differently with my school and I'm sure some tradtionalist may disagree with this but I'm ok with that. I think you are right that I could include a bit more history on the website which I probably will, however I do plan on teaching some of this in the classroom.

The belts in my school are representative of my teaching and relevant only to my school. Just like my 2nd degree was relevant to my old school. And yes we are breaking with the liniage system but still using a ruleset and including testing for my rank to allow for a pathway for students to move up beyond 1st degree black belts. I started doing karate 32 years ago. The system I created allows me to grow with my students and caps things off before it gets inflated. It is what it is and I think its a fair compromise. If I ever assume a 5th degree, I'll have nearly 40 years of experience doing MAs. Its just like a MMA school adopting belt ranks. It means something to them. Thats what matters. I feel like I'm transparent in what I'm doing but I can't please everyone.

As for as kata, it is not a primary focus of what we do so we are a little lighter here. We are more focused on sparring, fitness, and technique application. My school in Minnesota had its own set of forms (they did not use TKD forms) and I feel like it would have been wrong to copy their work. They also used the TKD way of making every belt advancement mostly about memorizing a new form. Its the easy way to test people and make money. Students memorized a form, passed a test, forgot it, moved on. I don't love that. By creating these forms, they have meaning to me and I can explain them to my students.

One thing that was mentioned in my thread on unaffiliated promotions is that it might be a better idea to have this as something that comes up organically when you need to promote your students to your current level. Having a plan in place ahead of time might make it look like you're either running a self-promotion or a pyramid promotion scheme.

I'm in a similar-ish boat as you. I have my 4th degree black belt in Taekwondo from my old school. I also have a black belt in Hapkido from there, I've been workshopping TKD stuff on my own, studying online and discussing with folks, I've recently been to another TKD school and been training a lot of BJJ and a little Muay Thai.

What we learned in my old TKD school isn't exactly what I'll teach, and how we learned isn't exactly how I'll teach it. My system is very heavily informed by the time I spent there, because it is where I spent the most time of my martial arts career. That information is not simply what worked at that school, but also what I feel didn't work.

If you did Karate a long time ago and stopped training completely, then I would suggest doing things close to how they were done in your lineage. But if you have expanded your training beyond what you learned there, then it makes a lot of sense to have a much different method.

 

[philwhite43 1]

If you did Karate a long time ago and stopped training completely, then I would suggest doing things close to how they were done in your lineage. But if you have expanded your training beyond what you learned there, then it makes a lot of sense to have a much different method.

I had two very different main instructors there. One when I was younger (15-22) and one when I returned later (30-40). The curiculum had also drastically changed between these times so I kind of had the opportunity to experience both old school and newer teaching methods. This and what I've learned elsewhere from seminars, training, judging, etc, has shaped the way I teach. Having my own kids and seeing how they react has also changed how I do a lot of things. I get really good feedback from my son. He will straight up tell me what sucks. When you teach in the dojo most people don't speak up as much as they should.

A lot of old school things that made me tough would not be acceptable today. When I did my testing for my 1st degree we had something like 13 candidates from our school and three of us made it and a few were too injured to continue. When I tested the second time everyone went through that started farily smoothly.

I don't blame anyone for the shift. I appreciate being able to do both but today many of those old school tests would have gotten new schools sued into oblivion.

 

[Flying Crane]

Thanks for the feedback. The school I trained at was not part of a larger association. When I moved, I was done with them and my advancement with them ended. I won't ever claim to be more than a 2nd degree with my old school. I'm doing things slightly differently with my school and I'm sure some tradtionalist may disagree with this but I'm ok with that. I think you are right that I could include a bit more history on the website which I probably will, however I do plan on teaching some of this in the classroom.

The belts in my school are representative of my teaching and relevant only to my school. Just like my 2nd degree was relevant to my old school. And yes we are breaking with the liniage system but still using a ruleset and including testing for my rank to allow for a pathway for students to move up beyond 1st degree black belts. I started doing karate 32 years ago. The system I created allows me to grow with my students and caps things off before it gets inflated. It is what it is and I think its a fair compromise. If I ever assume a 5th degree, I'll have nearly 40 years of experience doing MAs. Its just like a MMA school adopting belt ranks. It means something to them. Thats what matters. I feel like I'm transparent in what I'm doing but I can't please everyone.

As for as kata, it is not a primary focus of what we do so we are a little lighter here. We are more focused on sparring, fitness, and technique application. My school in Minnesota had its own set of forms (they did not use TKD forms) and I feel like it would have been wrong to copy their work. They also used the TKD way of making every belt advancement mostly about memorizing a new form. It’s the easy way to test people and make money. Students memorized a form, passed a test, forgot it, moved on. I don't love that. By creating these forms, they have meaning to me and I can explain them to my students.

The MN school’s website indicates to me that they are a bit of a larger organization, even if just mostly regional. And they list their lineage to Jhoon Rhee, who is well known, and J. Pat Burleson who I think I’ve heard of.

Did you split amicably from them, or was there friction? Are you concerned they might sue you if you use their material, assuming they actually created it and can claim some sort of copyright over it?

 

[philwhite43 1]

I was not an employee there when I left and they do not operate where I live so there is little chance of lawsuits. Or at least I hope so. Never the less, differentiating is a safe move to avoid this. I left when I moved cross country to NH in 2020 on good terms. I taught there as a volunteer substitute instructor and was not on payroll. So my knowledge is not of their business trade secrets but as a student and volunteer.

It is surprising that in their instruction they never mention their heritage of Jhoon Rhee. We never really talked about how we were originally TKD. I think I first learned of all of this through their Chicago NK web page some years ago. If I recall Jhoon Rhee never like the concept of calling TKD karate but apparently did so as a business move which worked for him. I think most people never ask.

Historically much of TKD is karate so it all blends together nicely regardless. Or sloppily if you deep dive it.

National Karate made a name for themselves in the 80 as they had some top kickboxers in the organization and they ended up expanding pretty wide across Minnesota and then later to a couple of other states. They are heavily part of NASKA and that whole tournament scene.

Their belt ranks are their own. My certificates don't say Jhoon Rhee, etc. and a lot of the material had shifted away from their beginnings. Everyone has mixed feeling on their past instruction but I think I learned a lot and am a capable instructor. The system I trained in produced a lot of national champions and some less skilled individuals as well. It is what it is.

I have my 2nd degree from them but they never updated their website to even show that even after I reached out to ask. The two schools I atteneded both closed. My last instructor retired and the other later moved to another school.

 

[philwhite43 1]

You know the funny part of this is that this thread will probably bubble up when people search for national karate in the future. I love you guys

And when my future students search for me online they can come back here too and be like, I knew it. Oh the internet. Thoughts never die. We all have room to grow as individuals including myself.

 

[HighKick]

Different class lengths

In a good program, this will flesh itself out, but when someone is just surfing an information website, it is not apparent. Maybe you should explain the fee structure along with the class time more in concert to better explain the disparity? If your kids prices are exceptionally good in your area, this may be more self-evident.

 

[skribs113 134]

My first comment is that I am very happy you did not include a whole bunch of purchased images of kids doing “krotty”, none of whom ever trained at your school. I see a lot of heavily commercial websites using these obviously posed and purchased photos and the whole thing just reeks of tacky. So good start there.

I think a lot of these may be because the pictures were posted before the school was really up-and-running and there weren't students in class yet. And then they never went back and edited it.

My BJJ professor and I were laughing at our website a few months ago. We were getting ready to open our 3rd location and he was updating the website. His bio described him as a 3rd degree black belt (he got his 4th degree over 3 years ago, he's closer to 5th than 3rd at this point). The pictures were of me as a no-stripe white belt and a bunch of folks who didn't train with us anymore.

 

[skribs113 134]

I updated my website today and I'd love some feedback from other martial artists. I added in video for the two forms I created and lots of documentation. I hope its ok to post the url. White Karate

Thanks

• Overall: Some of the text is hard to read. Anywhere there is a gray background, the darker gray parts make it hard to read the black text. It's not as bad in the blue, because you have dark and darker blue with white text. But the darker gray parts make the black text look dim.
• Contact:
  • I would include an email page with the contact.
  • Make sure that every element in the contact list is something you keep track of. (For example, if you never post to Facebook or respond to messages on Facebook, I would take that off).
• Classes:
  • I wouldn't include your son in the "Adult Karate" picture, just because he doesn't look 15+.
  • I would put more information into the Adult Karate section, specifically the class length (to make it consistent with the other two sections).
• Rules: ... see below

I don't know that I would specify the consequences in writing. It gives you less wiggle room to address issues as they come up. Minor things you can likely ignore in order to keep the class moving without making a kid sit out of class, but they might miss game time. One thing we do in my BJJ gym with the little kids is have them sit out the first round of a game, and then they get to play after that. (So they still get some punishment, but still play). But there are other things that will get kids kicked out right away.

It also depends on the individual. White belts generally need to be reminded of the rules. Quite often a kid's first roll in our BJJ class we need to explain "no punching". However, some kids have repeated problems. For example, one kid we had would throw a tantrum whenever he got stuck in a position, and as part of this tantrum he's flailing his arms and would strike the other kid. He rarely punched them on purpose, but he was in a no-warning situation. The first time it happened in any given class, he would be kicked out.

You may want to think about which things it's better to have in writing (such as clean uniform), and which things it's better to leave up to the instructor in the moment to handle the way they best see fit based on the severity of the misbehavior and the student's history.

 

[philwhite43 1]

I updated the class page slightly to make the hours more apparent. The photos are just of family right now and we need to still update some of these. I like the gray background but I see your point. I may see if I can lighten it up a bit.

 

[philwhite43 1]

Good call on the color skribs. I updated it and it looks much more readable.

 

[skribs113 134]

I updated the class page slightly to make the hours more apparent. The photos are just of family right now and we need to still update some of these. I like the gray background but I see your point. I may see if I can lighten it up a bit.

I mean you could replace that picture with a picture of just you and your wife (who would be more in the demographic of the adult class).

Good call on the color skribs. I updated it and it looks much more readable.

Looks a lot better.

 

[philwhite43 1]

I mean you could replace that picture with a picture of just you and your wife (who would be more in the demographic of the adult class).

Looks a lot better.

Yeah thats what we are going to do for now. Just have to go take some photos.

 

[BlackbeltNovice]

• Overall: Some of the text is hard to read. Anywhere there is a gray background, the darker gray parts make it hard to read the black text. It's not as bad in the blue, because you have dark and darker blue with white text. But the darker gray parts make the black text look dim.
• Contact:
  • I would include an email page with the contact.
  • Make sure that every element in the contact list is something you keep track of. (For example, if you never post to Facebook or respond to messages on Facebook, I would take that off).
• Classes:
  • I wouldn't include your son in the "Adult Karate" picture, just because he doesn't look 15+.
  • I would put more information into the Adult Karate section, specifically the class length (to make it consistent with the other two sections).
• Rules: ... see below

I don't know that I would specify the consequences in writing. It gives you less wiggle room to address issues as they come up. Minor things you can likely ignore in order to keep the class moving without making a kid sit out of class, but they might miss game time. One thing we do in my BJJ gym with the little kids is have them sit out the first round of a game, and then they get to play after that. (So they still get some punishment, but still play). But there are other things that will get kids kicked out right away.

It also depends on the individual. White belts generally need to be reminded of the rules. Quite often a kid's first roll in our BJJ class we need to explain "no punching". However, some kids have repeated problems. For example, one kid we had would throw a tantrum whenever he got stuck in a position, and as part of this tantrum he's flailing his arms and would strike the other kid. He rarely punched them on purpose, but he was in a no-warning situation. The first time it happened in any given class, he would be kicked out.

You may want to think about which things it's better to have in writing (such as clean uniform), and which things it's better to leave up to the instructor in the moment to handle the way they best see fit based on the severity of the misbehavior and the student's history.

Cool story, bro.