1st Dan Testing Fee

[jim777]

roflmao, I do not run 5 miles - ever. I hate running and as I get older my knees are less forgiving...I guess to each his own...but since I am having requirements of class attendance for the 4 month prior to my grading I think it's fair that I leave my crunches and push-ups in class...

What can I say. I only attend the school, I don't make its rules.

 

[Senjojutsu]

I'm intrigued by the major differences in how it seems the TKD organisation runs than the JSA world does.

Like Kacey said above, the signatures on the certificates matter just as much as the stamp. So my handful of Pounds gets me the approval of my sensei (who happens to be the highest ranked of our organisation in the country), the counter-signature of the head of IMAF-UK and the oversight approval of IMAF-Japan. These are not fly-by-night McDojo organisations, far from it.

Why is it then that my grading costs are trivial and those mentioned above are astronomical?

If I am fortunate enough to be eligible to grade over yodan before my sensei passes on, then it might get to be more expensive as I shall have to travel to mainland Europe to grade in front of some of the leading lights of the organisation. Even then, the primay costs will be travel, not fees.

Hello Sukerkin, I was wondering the same thing.

If a few dollars of a BB certificate’s value go to “wet the beaks” and help support the home organization’s cash flow, then okay I guess.

However once you crack more than $100 in today’s money (okay maybe $150 with the dollar’s exchange rate) I do begin to wonder of the underlying focus.

It is to spread the gospel of TKD (insert other MA name here), or a cash scam against us dumb Westerners? Or if it is a US based MA franchise is it to help finance the Great Grandmaster Soke’s new Mercedes lease.

“Excessive testing fees” and the marketing of “secret techniques” have always been two red flags for me for BullSh!do. The selling of “style branded” vitamins & nutritional supplements is another. LOL

P.S. Required purchase exclusivity of branded (& overpriced) training equipment for a school's students is but another.

 

[matt.m]

wow, 8-10 hr test. On average, depending on the size of the testers in hapkido and tae kwon do it averages between 4-5 hours. That would be for 1st dan.

Of course a 3rd dan test would be 8-10 hrs. but that is a lot more material to go over.

I have designed my yudo program to take between 4-5 yrs. to test for BB, the same as the tkd and hkd programs already in place.

 

[cdunn]

I just tested for chodan in Haidong. It cost.. a lot. However, between the embroidered belt, the uniform, gym rental (from an upscale athletic club), and hauling around the kwan jang nim for North America, I don't really feel like I got ripped off.

 

[YoungMan]

That's kind of what I'm saying. Our Dan testing fees go to many various aspects of good testings, including having a certificate with a world credentialed name on it, gymnasium rental, and dinner/drinks for the judges. I've gone out to dinner with our GM and fellow judges after a testing, and our GM picks up the tab for everything because it's his organization and we are guests. The total bill must have been well over $500. That money must come from somewhere. And when you factor in 15-20 judges from 4th to 7th Dan, it adds up.
Also, if you bring in special guests from around the country or Korea, all their expenses must be paid for as well.

 

[kwaichang]

Wow, time sure inflates those costs. I too had payments of about $40 per rank test with the Shodan test running $150 and then another $100 to be certified as Sensei. Five hundred is way too much, UNLESS, you're going to eventually open your own school, etc. as some have already stated above.
I've totally forgotten what the fees were for the more advanced dan levels were........I just keep the belts in a safe place.

 

[Twin Fist]

15-20 judges?

wow

 

[YoungMan]

Yes, although it varies from test to test. Our last Central Studio testing welcomed the new Head Instructor so, as a sign of respect, many Instructors from our organization came to show their support for him. There were at least 20 Masters there, from 4th Dan up to 7th Dan, and I'm being conservative. Now imagine paying for 20-25 Masters' meals and drinks at a fancy restaurant, and you can see why Dan testing fees can get pricey. But our GM has told us flat out he does not make money from these. Testing fees go to help the organization, not make him rich, which is why he also doesn't recommend teaching full time.
It was rather amusing watching 25 Masters in suits and ties go to the back room of our local 4-star eatery after the test. People must have thought it was a Mafia meeting or something.

 

[GlassJaw]

Wow, time sure inflates those costs. I too had payments of about $40 per rank test with the Shodan test running $150 and then another $100 to be certified as Sensei.

That's about what it is for us, too. I don't think any part of
the fees goes to our school; we turn it all in to our association.

We're hosted by a student organization at the local university,
so our school expenses don't typically include rental of space
(except when the university screws us over on room reservations).
Thus, we don't have the "keep the lights on" overhead; just
equipment, supplies, and special event expenses (such as
the occasional party, travel expense reimbursements for
guest instructors, awards, subsidizing roadtrips for
tournaments, etc.)

Color belt testing fees vary by rank (depending on expenses such
as how many boards are needed for the breaking requirements and
whether the rank involves a whole new belt or just a strip of electrical
tape), but are $30-50.

First dan is, I believe, $125 and includes KKW certification, a new
dobak, embroidered belt, and a souvenir challenge coin from our
association engraved with the candidate's registration number.
The fee is pretty rock-bottom, but trying to squeeze more cash
than necessary out of college students would only hurt the
school.

I strongly suspect that our total expenses on a first dan testing
exceed the revenue, and dues might be subsidizing it a little.

Oh, there's also annual blackbelt dues of $100(?) that the blackbelt
pays to the association. I don't know whether they have to pay
that up front or if the first year's included in the testing fee.
Don't know. . .not there yet myself.

Dan

 

[granfire]

Well, we used to rent a gym. places that have those spend a lot of money and deserve some compensation for the use...

No new uniform, only a certificate and a new belt...embroidered with your name....only maybe 5-7 judges, the highest ranks in the area...


Or you test in front of EVERYBODY at a national tournament, all the big guys are there (4th on up) they pick apart your uniform, interview you, etc and have you spar a lot of other high ranking BBs...and still no high fee...


Ok, not Olympic style and not KKW affiliated - as far as I know....but I guess for a few C's I can have that remedied as well....

I know it sounds like I am knocking tried and true methods, I am not, I am just astonished, that's all...

 

[Twin Fist]

Gran,
dont be afraid of having your opinion. What works for other people might not work for you. And thats ok.

Just do what works for you, it is ok to disagree, and you are being very polite about it so no worries.

 

[YoungMan]

It we just had a test with me judging and then everyone went home, I could get away with the minimum or no fee.
Testing should be special, and good judges have to be treated well. Therefore the cost is more. We don't provide a new uniform, or pick apart the uniform you already wear, and you spar present black belts who are already 1st-3rd Dan. You don't spar higher black belts because they're judging.

 

[Sukerkin]

It sounds to me (emphasis on the "to me" part) that the testing regime described is very much marketing lead.

I can't criticise too harshly because it is not my organisation and I do not understand fully the cultural background from which the process sprang; so my words have to be weighed with their level of ignorance.

That proviso laid, it does appear, to an outsider well versed in the essential nature of koryu martial arts, that the involvement of that much money in a rank test is far from a sign of health. It is scented too heavily with business and not heavily enough with the essence of the art.

Forgive me if that impression is wide of the mark but as a general rule, whenever finance becomes too prominent in any endeavour of personal worth, then the original goal has a bad tendency to be washed away by the torrent of cash.

 

[GlassJaw]

I wrote:

First dan is, I believe, $125 and includes KKW certification, a new
dobak, embroidered belt, and a souvenir challenge coin from our
association engraved with the candidate's registration number.

For the sake of accuracy, I wish to add that I learned the
other day that KKW certification is not included, but is
available at cost if the candidate desires it.

Dan

 

[GlassJaw]

Ignore this message. I accidentally posted twice, but couldn't figure out
how to delete the duplicate, so I changed it to this.

 

[Miles]

I wrote: For the sake of accuracy, I wish to add that I learned the
other day that KKW certification is not included, but is
available at cost if the candidate desires it.

Dan

The souvenir coin is pretty unique. Are you by any chance part of the American Chung Do Kwan org under Master Henkel?

Miles

 

[karate-dragon]

That seems to be a huge increase. We charge $100 for 1st Dan, and $200 for 2nd dan and each other Dan above that. Don't see why anyone can charge that much, but they do. This is an unregulated sport and each group can do whatever they want. THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH MARTIAL ARTS.

 

[jim777]

......THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH MARTIAL ARTS.

Well.....I would say there is a built in problem with the premise of the thread, in that it is at least as important to see the price of the 1st Dan test in relation to other non-Dan tests and school tuition and fees and such. I can understand a higher Dan testing fee where the years of tuition leading up to the test were pretty low monetarily, and there were no (or small) other costs like association fees and such. Quality martial arts instruction isn't free in many places, so total cost of your black belt is at least as important as one single bill on the road to getting that black belt.

A $500 BB test smells far worse at a $100 a month school that also requires $100 tests every 3 months than it would at a $20 a month school with $15 tests twice a year, for example (IMHO). Taking the 1st Dan test price out of the schools total cost context doesn't really give you a true insight into the cost of the belt, any more than the price of the gown for a college graduation reflects on the total cost of that graduation.

jim

 

[igillman]

We are a $100 per month school (discounted for families, 3 or more and it is $228 per month) with testing every 2 months at $50 per person for the lower belts and something like $70 for higher belts. We have high/low for some belts making about 16 tests between white and black belt. That makes the overall cost of a black belt quite high.

However, on the plus side, we can go as many times per week as we like, we have some very good instructors and it is in a convenient location.

I am going to sit at green belt for a while and let the kids go up. When they get red/black we will have 6 months to get ready for their black belts (if they want them). By then our contract will be up for renewal and one of the kids will be leaving home so it will be a perfect opportunity to re-evaluate the situation.

 

[Jim Greenwood]

$10,000 for a certification!!! Holy S**T (poop)! 8O

I charge $150 for all my BB tests up to 3rd Dan and $300 for 4th Dan and up that covers the embroidered black belt or master belt, Certificate, my time and anyone elses time that I have on the board. I could see maybe Charging $100 per BB rank, like $100 for 1st, $200 for 2nd, $300 for 3rd but then leveling off after $300 to $500 for the rest after that it's just being money hungry!