Starting a new Karate dojo

There are no martial arts schools in the area. We looked at the pricing of the local dance school as someone to compare with. Our year one plan is to build our student base and see how many kids we can retain after white belt. We are starting with an introductory program for 3 months to build interest and keep costs low for potential students. After that the monthly rates go up a bit. We want to make sure the first three months is a great experience so that they choose to stay and parents feel enough value to absorb the cost of sparring gear. I do have a wholesale acct with awma and century which helps but when you ask folks to drop close to $200 on gear it can be a lot.
I know bundling up kids (and adults) head to toe in foam is the TKD way, but I personally feel this is a negative when it comes to MA. First off, IMO, novices should not be engaged in freestyle sparring. There are other activities that take priority like technique, self-defense scenarios, control and form. When over-padded, these skills cannot be well developed. Additionally, it instills the idea that they can get punched and kicked without danger or pain, so defensive skills seem to be unnecessary. This is a poor mindset if the student gets in a real fight.

I'd suggest you hold off on the sparring the first 6 months sticking to target striking then gradually phase in sparring and equipment, step by step, as the beginner rule set becomes less restrictive and do the rest of their protective equipment purchasing a few months later. This will reduce sticker shock. In the meantime, you can recommend target pads and foam clubs to the parents to practice with their kids at home (getting them directly involved) to bring in some inexpensive sales up front - each month suggest a different piece of practice equipment.

Before black belt my only equipment was a cup. After black belt I invested in a mouthguard for competition.
 
There are no martial arts schools in the area. We looked at the pricing of the local dance school as someone to compare with. Our year one plan is to build our student base and see how many kids we can retain after white belt. We are starting with an introductory program for 3 months to build interest and keep costs low for potential students. After that the monthly rates go up a bit. We want to make sure the first three months is a great experience so that they choose to stay and parents feel enough value to absorb the cost of sparring gear. I do have a wholesale acct with awma and century which helps but when you ask folks to drop close to $200 on gear it can be a lot.
Be careful about expecting a lot of income from gear. It is just really, really hard to compete with Amazon & ebay. That said, AWMA, Century and similar (check out kung4less) will be great for introductory sets (first uniform, etc...) where the emphasis is not so much on the best uniform available. I have used Choi Brothers out of Chicago for over 35-years. Great entry level and above uniforms and gear at prices that allow me to compete with the big box/online stores in volume (does require minimum orders).
Where the wholesale accounts will help you the most early on is infrastructure for the physical building. Don't be afraid to leverage one store off the other. Do it all the time. Be Very selective in the uniform sizes you stock. Not a lot of 000 or size 6+ uniforms sold.
I also don't recommend trying to pigeon-hole people into buying 'your' gear. Be very specific in what is allowed, offer it for convenience/buyer lack-of-knowledge, but don't force the decision. You will run people off.
We have an introductory package with or without sparring gear. Simple. First few classes are free and I don't care what you wear as long as you are not revealing any inappropriate body parts.
 
We aren't really expecting much from gear sales but we will offer a package as a convienience. Our policy is pretty close to the one of the larger Iowa open tournament requirements. We made a spec sheet to walk people through what is needed. I am 100% in favor of well maintained used gear. I don't love selling gear either. If I'm going to sell anything I'd prefer it be tshirts.

We do plan on starting sparring drills and basics somewhere in the gold belt rank. With having classes only twice a week, this will still give most people 3-4 months before they need to order gear. Hopefully that time window will alleviate some of the sticker shock.

The school I trained required us to buy all gear from them at retail prices and they had most people on long contracts. I get why they do it but its not for me. I'm going the other direction. Will it work? The math says it should. I think people prefer affordable monthy rates over contracts.

Most of our uniform stock is 0 and 1 sizes. I went with Century for these and got a pretty good deal. Thank you wholesale. My wife and son have been wearing the student uniforms for the past 5 months and they've held up pretty well so far. I remember my first uniform. It was a white proforce and it was so thin. You could basically see through it. These from Century feel a bit better. We also went with blue.

Appreciate all of the wisdom.
 
We aren't really expecting much from gear sales but we will offer a package as a convienience. Our policy is pretty close to the one of the larger Iowa open tournament requirements. We made a spec sheet to walk people through what is needed. I am 100% in favor of well maintained used gear. I don't love selling gear either. If I'm going to sell anything I'd prefer it be tshirts.

We do plan on starting sparring drills and basics somewhere in the gold belt rank. With having classes only twice a week, this will still give most people 3-4 months before they need to order gear. Hopefully that time window will alleviate some of the sticker shock.

The school I trained required us to buy all gear from them at retail prices and they had most people on long contracts. I get why they do it but its not for me. I'm going the other direction. Will it work? The math says it should. I think people prefer affordable monthy rates over contracts.

Most of our uniform stock is 0 and 1 sizes. I went with Century for these and got a pretty good deal. Thank you wholesale. My wife and son have been wearing the student uniforms for the past 5 months and they've held up pretty well so far. I remember my first uniform. It was a white proforce and it was so thin. You could basically see through it. These from Century feel a bit better. We also went with blue.

Appreciate all of the wisdom.
You'd be surprised. Lots of folks love being able to buy the gear and support the brand. I am one of those at my BJJ gym, and I see countless folks doing it. My BJJ professor's rule is that you don't have to wear his gear, but it does need to be black. But even with that rule, the majority of people buy his gi, his rashguard, his muay thai shorts, his gloves, etc., because they love the gym and want to support it. Even the kid's parents are buying his clothes (i.e. t-shirt, hoodie) so that when we go to tournaments they can show support for the team.

When I open my school, I plan to do things similar to you in terms of when to start contact sparring. It would be orange belt, which will be around 6 months in (my color belt curriculum is broken up into 6-month blocks (with the caveat that if they're not ready to test then it will take longer)). I go back and forth on whether I want to go for just chestguard and mouthguard, or if I want to create Michelin Men. I'm leaning towards the later. The goal is to keep people long term. Padding is a good way to keep people from getting the kind of soft tissue injuries that make training frustrating.
 
I know bundling up kids (and adults) head to toe in foam is the TKD way, but I personally feel this is a negative when it comes to MA. First off, IMO, novices should not be engaged in freestyle sparring. There are other activities that take priority like technique, self-defense scenarios, control and form. When over-padded, these skills cannot be well developed. Additionally, it instills the idea that they can get punched and kicked without danger or pain, so defensive skills seem to be unnecessary. This is a poor mindset if the student gets in a real fight.

I'd suggest you hold off on the sparring the first 6 months sticking to target striking then gradually phase in sparring and equipment, step by step, as the beginner rule set becomes less restrictive and do the rest of their protective equipment purchasing a few months later. This will reduce sticker shock. In the meantime, you can recommend target pads and foam clubs to the parents to practice with their kids at home (getting them directly involved) to bring in some inexpensive sales up front - each month suggest a different piece of practice equipment.

Before black belt my only equipment was a cup. After black belt I invested in a mouthguard for competition.
I'd have to respectfully disagree. I think the introduction of sparring (including freestyle) is put off for too long in many schools. Having come up "the TKD way" myself, I wish we'd begun freestyle sooner. You're not "dressed from head to toe in foam." You're sensibly equipped to begin experiencing the chaos of an unscripted exchange with a committed opponent.

What are they committed TO? That's a fair question. Not to taking your head off your shoulders certainly. Not for the most part. (I certainly had a few sparring partners who were more committed to that notion in ITF Taekwondo.) But to putting you physically and mentally under pressure. And I think that's the real value of sparring at that level. How do you cognitively deal with the unexpected and aggressive?

I don't buy for one moment that protective gear results in complacency. Take fencing for instance. When I studied fencing, we were sparring on Day 1. Were we complacent about getting hit because we were wearing masks and vests? Because we weren't getting skewered with a real sword? No, of course not. We still wanted to hit without being hit. Because that's the objective that's internalised in fencing.

I grant that the result of not being actually killed with a sword is sometimes that people are happy enough to have exchanges in which, in real life, both participants would die. Leading to rules like "right of way" in foil fencing. And I do think that mindset should be guarded against, depending on your goals in training. (If your goal is to master foil fencing without larger implications, then follow your bliss.)

Technique is important, but I'm not convinced that you can really master technique outside of application. And I've seen many, many practitioners who have brilliant technique when practicing forms or shadowboxing, then it all goes to seed when they're under the pressure of facing an opponent. What use is technique then?

Usually this is the point at which someone brings up the fact that the padding alters your technique for the worse. And that point isn't lost on me. But the fact is that most of us--lucky sods that we are--won't ever experience a scenario in which a lot of these techniques are deployed in reality. The vast majority of our experience will be an abstraction. We can talk about how many deadly techniques are contained in our forms, our drills, etc. But most of us will happily never gouge a person's eyes or gut anyone with a knife.

Instead, what we're going to do is engage with as many different abstractions as possible, abstracting as many different angles of this thing as possible. And--somewhere in the middle--hopefully we find some sense of "proof of concept."

Sparring isn't reality. Of course it isn't. But there are valuable lessons to be learned around timing, distancing, angling, flow, etc. that are better learned early on in the process. I vastly prefer that to seeing someone cognitively dismantling years of practice during sparring because what they're experiencing doesn't synch up at all with what they've experienced and visualised through years and years of uncontested drills.

I very clearly remember feeling I was getting quite good at taekwondo, then sparring and being hopelessly overwhelmed, then taking a very dim view of my own abilities. It takes a mental shift that you get from having someone come at you to really feel like a technique belongs to you. There are plenty of variations on sparring (e.g., intensity, range of technique, etc.) to keep someone developing. But at least introduce the idea of pressure, adrenaline, etc. early. Get them used to being "in the pocket."

Get them in gear early. Explain what sparring is and (more importantly) what it isn't. Let their technique improve in situ as well as in the drills, forms, etc.
 
@ap Oweyn I think it comes down to the right balance. I think for a lot of fighters, it's better to wait a bit before doing live sparring. We even do this in my BJJ gym. Most folks who come in don't do live rolls on day 1. They may not even do positional rolls. They're more likely to drill more with an upper belt, such as drills that just rotate through the positions.

I think the key is finding the right timing between what is too early and what is too late.

If you start sparring too early, you have people that don't know how to protect themselves and don't know how to protect their teammates. In TKD, this manifests as people who will kick the legs, groin, head, etc. when they're not supposed to, or who will kick people smaller than them at full power. The people being kicked also do not have the defenses yet to properly protect their head, legs, etc. from those blasting kicks. In jiu-jitsu, this manifests as white belts who rip submissions or who don't breakfall correctly to take-downs. They need to be eased in.

But if you take too long to start sparring, such as a TKD school that doesn't spar until brown belt or a BJJ school that doesn't let you roll until blue belt, then you establish a system where sparring is so late in the game that people need to re-learn their entire technical repertoire in order to function again. It's one thing to add in headshots at black belt in TKD or to add in wristlocks at blue belt in BJJ. It's another to add in the entire concept of training against resistance when you're already 2+ years into the program.
 
@ap Oweyn I think it comes down to the right balance. I think for a lot of fighters, it's better to wait a bit before doing live sparring. We even do this in my BJJ gym. Most folks who come in don't do live rolls on day 1. They may not even do positional rolls. They're more likely to drill more with an upper belt, such as drills that just rotate through the positions.

I think the key is finding the right timing between what is too early and what is too late.

If you start sparring too early, you have people that don't know how to protect themselves and don't know how to protect their teammates. In TKD, this manifests as people who will kick the legs, groin, head, etc. when they're not supposed to, or who will kick people smaller than them at full power. The people being kicked also do not have the defenses yet to properly protect their head, legs, etc. from those blasting kicks. In jiu-jitsu, this manifests as white belts who rip submissions or who don't breakfall correctly to take-downs. They need to be eased in.

But if you take too long to start sparring, such as a TKD school that doesn't spar until brown belt or a BJJ school that doesn't let you roll until blue belt, then you establish a system where sparring is so late in the game that people need to re-learn their entire technical repertoire in order to function again. It's one thing to add in headshots at black belt in TKD or to add in wristlocks at blue belt in BJJ. It's another to add in the entire concept of training against resistance when you're already 2+ years into the program.
Absolutely, Skribs. My issue is mostly with the idea that sparring should be held until late in the curriculum. And that being padded up results in indifference to being hit (and, by extension, a loss of technique).

That said, how do people learn how to protect themselves if not in some form of sparring? We learned the traditional blocks prior to sparring, but nobody in sparring was using those in-to-out blocks, etc. to defend themselves in sparring.

It's probably important (and I know you already know this) to draw a distinction between "freestyle" and "unmonitored." Certainly sparring should be monitored and purposeful. Pairings should be made purposefully as well. Sparring should be set up at least as mindfully as drills and forms are. Really more so. It's the lab. Everyone should know the protocols before they get started. It can move from more structured to less structured. And those sorts of issues should be addressed in real time during those sessions.

To your (and my) point, though, the time to learn those things is earlier in the process. When people are ready. Not at an arbitrary later date, once movements are habitualised and then need to be relearned.
 
Sparring with newbies is always interesting. My son is a perfect example. First time sparring he goes and swings for the fences. Its like everything we train went in one ear and out the other. This is why a lot of people don't want to fight newbies. They have no control or concept of space, movement, etc.

I prefer to get them in early to curb these tendencies rather than have them come in with a set of weapons and no knowledge of safety or practical application. We have a very strict policy on sparring safety which I know is against some of the hardcore guys but most of our students will be kids and people who like TMA, want to do martial arts for the health benefit, not hardcore fighters looking to be UFC.

As for padding its kind of a double edged sword. For the littles they are the michilin man but for teens and adults pads can sometimes make things more dangerous. You can now hit harder without hurting your hands, shins, or feet. And on the opposite end things like chest guards and headgear can give a false sense of safety. I know I got the wind knocked out of me far more often wearing a chest gaurd than not wearing one because I wasn't bracing when I had it on. I didn't know better. Also got a mean eye poke through a face shield and my eye has never been the same.

I appreciate all of the comments. It gives a good perspective on what we are doing.
 
We aren't really expecting much from gear sales but we will offer a package as a convienience. Our policy is pretty close to the one of the larger Iowa open tournament requirements. We made a spec sheet to walk people through what is needed. I am 100% in favor of well maintained used gear. I don't love selling gear either. If I'm going to sell anything I'd prefer it be tshirts.

We do plan on starting sparring drills and basics somewhere in the gold belt rank. With having classes only twice a week, this will still give most people 3-4 months before they need to order gear. Hopefully that time window will alleviate some of the sticker shock.

The school I trained required us to buy all gear from them at retail prices and they had most people on long contracts. I get why they do it but its not for me. I'm going the other direction. Will it work? The math says it should. I think people prefer affordable monthy rates over contracts.

Most of our uniform stock is 0 and 1 sizes. I went with Century for these and got a pretty good deal. Thank you wholesale. My wife and son have been wearing the student uniforms for the past 5 months and they've held up pretty well so far. I remember my first uniform. It was a white proforce and it was so thin. You could basically see through it. These from Century feel a bit better. We also went with blue.

Appreciate all of the wisdom.
I have done monthly since 1986 when we opened the first doors. I do 6-months contracts for WT tournaments because they are 5-days/wk and intensive.

I think T-shirts are some of the cheapest, easiest, more effective advertising methods. I give them away all the time when someone does something (minor) 'special'. Kids wear them to school and, Bam.
 
We offically have students. We had 6 sign up at our first event and about ten parents take home sign up sheets. We have a second sign up on thursday so we are optimistic and hoping a few come back. We had one family of six that was interested and may come back. Having them sign up would be awesome. Most of the kids were in our 5-7 age group and we predicted more on the 8-14 range so it was a bit different. We had almost 20 people on the mats so I think it was a positive first step. I should have stocked more 00 uniforms. We have only been marketing for about three weeks so far. Probably 100% of signups from facebook.
 
We offically have students. We had 6 sign up at our first event and about ten parents take home sign up sheets. We have a second sign up on thursday so we are optimistic and hoping a few come back. We had one family of six that was interested and may come back. Having them sign up would be awesome. Most of the kids were in our 5-7 age group and we predicted more on the 8-14 range so it was a bit different. We had almost 20 people on the mats so I think it was a positive first step. I should have stocked more 00 uniforms. We have only been marketing for about three weeks so far. Probably 100% of signups from facebook.
Fantastic!!!
Showing you are and being organized make an enormous difference especially at events. Running a sloppy event usually nets poor results. Having quality PR/public speaker(s) matters as well. Sounds cheesy I know, but rehearse at least what will happen Off the mat. Yes the actual product is on the mat, but oftentimes you are selling your product to people who have zero concept of it (parents) and are thinking in different dimensions.
It may sound old school but people still check for reputation so things like the BBB, and local government entities are huge. It is Much easier to Vet something nowadays with the 'touch of a finger'.
Appropriately space them out but I suggest planning more demos/PR events. Think of premier/new product opportunities along with the typical triggers like back to school , get fit for the New Year, etc... And try hard Not to make them the same old, same old.

There are several that make me smile but one that will always stand out is the year we opened our 1st school. A few months later Nissan came out with their 'Hardbody' truck. Our local Nissan dealer GM was working out so we came up with a Demo day for both the truck and our school. I bet I jumped over the bed of that truck 20 times that day!:cool:
Good Times.
 
We had a great second event tonight and picked up a lot of new students including a few adults. Our official classes start on January 5th. We got a lot of high energy kids in our middle group so its going to be busy! We wanted to start with about 20 students and we are pretty close to that goal. I'll probably be writing class ciriculum the next two weeks to prepare for the new year. Can't wait to get started. Also just finished creating my second form which I'm very happy with. I just need to get a good video take.

For those with schools, how much stuff do you post on your websites? What kind of things do you have out there? Thanks
 
We had a great second event tonight and picked up a lot of new students including a few adults. Our official classes start on January 5th. We got a lot of high energy kids in our middle group so its going to be busy! We wanted to start with about 20 students and we are pretty close to that goal. I'll probably be writing class ciriculum the next two weeks to prepare for the new year. Can't wait to get started. Also just finished creating my second form which I'm very happy with. I just need to get a good video take.

For those with schools, how much stuff do you post on your websites? What kind of things do you have out there? Thanks
My problem is I've been working on and constantly revising my curriculum. I told my parents today that one of the nice things about opening my school is I can stop revising my curriculum.
 
My problem is I've been working on and constantly revising my curriculum. I told my parents today that one of the nice things about opening my school is I can stop revising my curriculum.
Nah, it just means your revisions will become more focused and practice-based. You'll be going from alpha to beta testing.
 
We had a great second event tonight and picked up a lot of new students including a few adults. Our official classes start on January 5th. We got a lot of high energy kids in our middle group so its going to be busy! We wanted to start with about 20 students and we are pretty close to that goal. I'll probably be writing class ciriculum the next two weeks to prepare for the new year. Can't wait to get started. Also just finished creating my second form which I'm very happy with. I just need to get a good video take.

For those with schools, how much stuff do you post on your websites? What kind of things do you have out there? Thanks
That's awesome!

When I am doing a media campaign or promotion, I get help to be (somewhat) professional. Fortunately, we usually have someone in class that is willing to swap out the work for classes. But it is tough to have a 'one size fits all' campaign. Instead, I do at least two promo's which are spaced out and target different demographics/ages. I seldom go in for the 'flashy' stuff in ads, but rather promote real world training and benefits. Save the flash for demos and such.
As far as 'out there', time has been an ally. I essentially break our program down into three components: general population/regular classes, competition, and assisted/special needs classes. There is Always overlap and that is always encouraged. It keeps the Do in Tae Kwon Do, IMHO.

We have an old, outdated website that is strictly informational. No interaction, payment, etc... Reputation, word of mouth and deep integration with local business, government, and the school system is the nexus of our stability. I used to tout my Olympic record but that is so long ago it seldom comes up now. I do leverage our WT/TKD, AAU, USA/TKD, and friendlies competitor records, in the right circles. We promote our competition success via other sites or promoters such as WT, AAU, USA/TKD, etc... But this does not hit the general population very much. More targets high level athletes looking for a place to train.

If I was starting from scratch, I would get with a good promotion/ad person, decide what media gets the most traffic in your area and focus there. Hard not to have a strong Facebook, Instagram, Twitter presence nowadays. Discord is making a strong presence as well. Funny, but I am a MSEE and have done control & automation all my life but have zero desire and only cursory knowledge in social media and advertising. I do feel paying for a good search engine boost service/website development like Wix is worth the money. We use them for three different businesses and the money is the same.
How interactive do you plan to make your website? It is a reality that I begrudgingly need to embrace and move our inhouse sales to an online option as well. We do monthly only payment. No contracts. It is easier for my office manager to chase payments face to face (which has never been a problem).

I realize I rambled a bit. Hope a usable answer is in there somewhere.
 
I updated my website today and I'd love some feedback from other martial artists. I added in video for the two forms I created and lots of documentation. I hope its ok to post the url. White Karate

Thanks
 
I updated my website today and I'd love some feedback from other martial artists. I added in video for the two forms I created and lots of documentation. I hope its ok to post the url. White Karate

Thanks
I suggest reviewing the 'About' page for typo's and trying to shore it up better (seems weak, sorry). Also, why a different price for kids and adults?
 
My first comment is that I am very happy you did not include a whole bunch of purchased images of kids doing ā€œkrottyā€, none of whom ever trained at your school. I see a lot of heavily commercial websites using these obviously posed and purchased photos and the whole thing just reeks of tacky. So good start there.

I like that your website is straight forward and informational, without a lot of heavily commercialized selling. Obviously this is a business and there are costs and fees involved, so there has to be room for that. But so many websites just go over the top with selling selling selling and I just hate them. I appreciate the overall presentation of your site. Just provide honest and relevant information without a bunch of over-hyped nonsense.

To me, as a student of the traditional Chinese arts, as well as an older variant of aikido, lineage is important. Knowing who gave someone their training gives an indication of the kind of training one might anticipate at the school. It also helps clarify quality, as a strong lineage, training passed down from one well-respected instructor to another well-respected instructor to another, to another, to …you, provides context that has meaning. An unbroken line of quality, and you didn’t just kind of make this up on your own. So I suggest you add to that information on the website. You mention the school where you trained in Minnesota, but you don’t talk about who the instructor(s) were, specifically what system of karate was taught, where it comes from and who stands in that lineage. For someone like myself, that carries weight and gives it all context and meaning. When I see a website that doesn’t address lineage, and perhaps even seems to be deliberately avoiding it, I begin to have suspicions about the quality and legitimacy of the training. Did this sensei just dabble a bit here and there and then sort of self-promote and start teaching, trusting to the general ignorance of the public at large, particularly newbies, to never look deeper? Or does this person hold a place within a strong lineage representing quality?

I know that not everyone will agree with me on that issue, but I find it important and insightful, and I believe most people who are not complete beginners will see that as useful information.

I also see an inconsistency in the information that you present. In one place on the website, you mention earning shodan at the Minnesota school. In another place you mention earning nidan, and I think that was also from the Minnesota school (correct me if I am mistaken). But in a couple of other places you state that the curriculum and advancement tops out at fifth dan. How did you get from 1st/2nd to 5th? Did you undergo additional training and promotion, and if so, why is that not listed in the information about yourself? Are you inviting in a higher ranked mentor to oversee your own further training, and that of your students, to bring yourself and them, up to a higher level? Did you self-promote? Depending on the answer to these questions, you might be opening an ugly can-o-worms.

My advice: do not self-promote. It never comes off well, to the experienced martial arts community. It can really hurt your reputation, outside of the small pond in which you reside. People in the larger martial arts community will not take you seriously and eventually that could begin to put doubts in the minds of your students. Because people talk and eventually they will hear rumors and opinions and they will begin to wonder if they were lied to.

I say all of this as someone who pretty much detests the belt ranking system and has spent most of his martial career in a system where belts are not used. We just train and keep on working on getting better. Eventually, Sifu may tell you that it is ok if you want to teach. So I don’t put a lot of importance on the belts, but you are stepping into an arena where belts are often given a whole lot of weight, for better or for worse. So don’t ever inflate that. Be completely transparent, always. Be honest with your rank, don’t apologize for it if it isn’t as high as the guy in the next town over, and commit yourself to giving the best quality instruction and training that you can. People will respect that, and even if your rank isn’t particularly high, given your years in the martial arts, you may well be able to offer better quality instruction than someone holding a higher rank but with half of your years of experience. Just do quality work and build your reputation on that.

I hope this all works out for you.

Edit: I overlooked that you included a link to the school in Minnesota, so that has a lot of information regarding lineage. Personally I think it would be more effective to include an abbreviated version of that information on your website rather than just a link (which could also be included). As you can see, it is easy to overlook the link by itself.
 
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