Forms Creation

skribs127 148

Grandmaster
I've been working on developing forms for my curriculum. As I've mentioned in previous threads on my journey, I'm creating my own forms for a few reasons:
  1. I am unaffiliated with Kukkiwon, and do not want there to be any confusion on whether I am affiliated with them or not, so I will not be doing the Taegeuks. (Part of my frustration with my 4th degree situation is I thought because the Kukkiwon forms were specifically included in my requirements that I was going to be getting a Kukkiwon certificate).
  2. I have signed an NDA with my previous Master that I will not use his forms. I don't know how enforceable it is (or if those are even his IP to have signed over), but either way I don't really want to use his curriculum anyway.
  3. There are minor quips I have with the various forms that I have learned, including both the Taegeuks and my Master's previous forms, and so this will help me make forms that I truly connect with. If I connect with them, I can better teach them.
  4. The forms fit better into my curriculum (i.e. the types of techniques in the forms fit into the belt that I'm going to be teaching those techniques).
  5. Because I am enjoying the process and find it fulfilling that my style will have my forms.
In creating my forms, there's a few guidelines I've set for myself. These include guidelines on what the purpose of the forms are and how they fit into the overall curriculum, rules for facilitating training, and then specific design standards that affect how I choreograph each individual form.

Purpose and Fit
  • The purpose of the form is to create a performative demonstration of martial techniques, with a focus on aesthetics over application. Practical versions of the technique can be taught in the Kibon part of class, with application of the technique being taught in sparring or self-defense. The benefits of the forms are the development of physical attributes of snap power, stances (strength and flexibility), posture, and balance; the mental attributes of memory, discipline, focus, and attention-to-detail. The forms are a display for use during testing or demonstration.
  • As mentioned in the intro, my forms fit into my curriculum by loosely including techniques from that belt level. For example, the basic blocks I will teach white belts are in the white belt forms. Open-hand techniques start in yellow belt, along with open-hand techniques being in yellow belt forms. Elbow strikes in purple belt Kibon, elbow strikes in purple belt forms. Advanced punches in green belt; hooks, uppercuts, and backfists in the green belt forms. And so on.
  • My forms should have a steady scaling difficulty. I find that the Taegeuk forms start more difficult than they need to be (unless you add in Kibon forms, and even then there's a huge jump from Kibon #N to Taegeuk #1) and don't scale up very high. In my previous Master's forms, there were huge difficulty plateaus and spikes. I've tried to smoothen the curve on the way up.
  • As mentioned in a previous thread, I find the I-shape (with serifs) to be easy to choreograph and learn, but also limiting in creativity. I've created my color belt forms in the I-shape, but my black belt forms in different shapes. This is my attempt to have my cake and eat it, too. Because the forms follow the same general footwork pattern (with some exceptions in the advanced colored belts), I try to give them their own technical identity and pacing to make them feel different enough that they don't get monotonous.
  • Keep in mind that color belts will have a testing cycle of 2-3 months, where black belts will be year(s).
  • Black Belts will have creative form requirements in addition to memorizing the forms.
  • Students will be expected to know all forms for testing. Students will test on their most recent form and at least one previous form, up to and potentially including all previous forms. (Exception is white belts who will simply test on Form 1 or Forms 1 & 2, depending on stripe). Black belts will have an additional form that is tested every degree, as well as needing to demonstrate all creative form requirements.
Rules to Facilitate Training
  • Forms must generally fit into an 8x10 grid. This will make it easier for folks to practice at home, easier to train in a smaller gym, easier to fit onto a competition mat, and easier to train in class without bumping into each other (especially if folks are doing different forms with a different timing, or practicing on their own or in small groups).
  • Forms should generally use the same space from the starting block. For example, I don't want some students starting backwards, some starting forwards, as it makes it easier to run into each other during training.
  • Students will only touch the ground with their feet. In my Master's forms, there's rolls, kneeling stances, and times where you put your hands on the ground in a tripod back kick. This makes it difficult to practice these forms on hard floors (tile, garage), in the parking lot, in the grass on a misty day, etc. The kneeling stances are also difficult on the knees of older or overweight students.
  • There should be enough of a difference between forms that students don't get confused and mix forms together. Taegeuks 1-3 were particularly bad in this regard.
Design Standards
  • Forms must start and end on the same spot.
  • Forms should start with the left leg moving first, and end with the left leg returning to the choonbi position. This just helps keep forms moving in the same general direction (either left or forward).
  • Forms should end on a kiyhap. I feel if they don't, it's as if the sentence is half-finished.
  • Forms should start with a block and end with a strike, signifying the defensive nature of the art and the idea of, "Don't start fights, but finish them." Each line should also follow this standard, but it is less important at the line level.
  • Forms should have a connective theme throughout the form. For example, one form has a double middle block into a hook-uppercut combo at the top, and a double knife-hand block into a palm block--punch combo at the bottom. Similar theme of the double block into a 1-2 combo. There should also be a variation on this theme, because if we want to practice the same thing twice, we can just practice the first half of the form twice. (The exception is at the white and yellow belt levels, to keep the forms easier to learn).
  • Forms should try to repeat techniques and transitions on both sides, with the understanding that it's never going to be exactly perfect. Sometimes a technique is taught only on one side in one form, but comes up on the other side in a later form.
  • Forms should have a smooth flow to them. One move should be the chamber for the next, or should flow smoothly into the chamber for the next, or the chamber should be it's own step in the combination. This includes designing techniques to have wrist rotation at every step in the combination, in order to maximize the snap power in the next step of the form.
  • Whenever I use a combination from another set of forms for inspiration, I should find a way to modify the combination to my own, in order to better fit my style, its placement within my curriculum, and make it more unique.
Currently, I've got 15/18 forms in my planned series completed. I would like to have them all laid out before finalizing the curriculum. There may be a few wrinkles to iron out here and there, but I'd like to have the overarching process done. I plan to have 6 beginner forms, 6 advanced forms, and 6 black belt forms. (I probably only need 3 black belt forms based on my rank situation, but I'd rather have the forms ready now to future-proof the system).

Overall, I'm pretty happy with what I have. This is less forms than in other schools I've trained in, especially when you factor in I don't plan to have rote memorized combinations or self-defense sequences for testing. The only additional rote material will be in demonstration team (if we have one). Other than that, testing is going to be dynamic requirements (i.e. I call which kick(s) to do instead of them memorizing #1-#8 combination) or creative requirements.

This is also not the entire curriculum, just the entire rote curriculum. Because this is the most static of the requirements, I want to get this right from the start.
 
I applaud you in your endeavor. Just to play devil's advocate, if your forms are purely performative and for exercise, then why teach them as a martial art curriculum? What separates it from dance at that point? This is just me spit balling here, but wouldn't it make more sense as a martial art to have a practical form that teaches effective concepts that can then be stylized for performance by the individual? Think karate kata; the old versions don't look great for demonstration by themselves but are easily applicable to real combat, meanwhile there are more stylized versions of the same kata for tournaments and demos but the core application/concepts are still there. Or, in the case of many Kukkiwon yudanja poomsae, they were created with practical application in mind and have been modified for aesthetics over the years to look better in tournaments and for demos, but the core concepts are still there.

best of luck to you.
 
I applaud you in your endeavor. Just to play devil's advocate, if your forms are purely performative and for exercise, then why teach them as a martial art curriculum? What separates it from dance at that point? This is just me spit balling here, but wouldn't it make more sense as a martial art to have a practical form that teaches effective concepts that can then be stylized for performance by the individual? Think karate kata; the old versions don't look great for demonstration by themselves but are easily applicable to real combat, meanwhile there are more stylized versions of the same kata for tournaments and demos but the core application/concepts are still there. Or, in the case of many Kukkiwon yudanja poomsae, they were created with practical application in mind and have been modified for aesthetics over the years to look better in tournaments and for demos, but the core concepts are still there.

best of luck to you.
Why include art in a martial arts curriculum?

I have never learned practical versions of forms. In my opinion, they don't exist in Kukkiwon Taekwondo. As you said, this goes back to Okinawan Karate, which is several generations removed from the creation of TKD, which is a few more generations removed from my training.

And if someone says it's basically dance? That's a compliment. Ballet is the toughest workout I've ever done.
 
If you can create a form of 20 moves that the 1st move can set up the 2nd move, the 2nd move can set op for the 3rd move, ... , the 19th move can set up the 20th move, and you try not to repeat any move, you can give yourself a good credit in the MA world. At this point of time, I have not seen that 20 moves combo (a 20 moves form) has ever been created by anybody on this planet yet.

For example, let me give it a try:

1. Left side kick
2. Right spin back fist
3. Left roundhouse kick
4. Left block/grab
5. Right cross
6. Right upward block
7. Left jab
8. Right front kick
9. Jumping double front kicks
10. Right jab
11. Right hook
12. left uppercut
13. Right overhand
14. Right back fist
15. Left cross
16. Right shin bite
17. Right reverse shin bite
18. Left foot sweep
19. Right leg block
20. Right front cut

You need to know the possible responds that comes from your opponent and design a proper counter for it. You are really design a "2 men form". Whether you intend to create your opponent's part or not is up to you. If most of your opponent's responds are just to escape your attack (such as step back, or block your kick/punch), your opponent's part of form may not be important.
 
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Why include art in a martial arts curriculum?

I have never learned practical versions of forms. In my opinion, they don't exist in Kukkiwon Taekwondo. As you said, this goes back to Okinawan Karate, which is several generations removed from the creation of TKD, which is a few more generations removed from my training.

And if someone says it's basically dance? That's a compliment. Ballet is the toughest workout I've ever done.
So, what is the point of your rebuttal?
 
I have never learned practical versions of forms. In my opinion, they don't exist in Kukkiwon Taekwondo.
FWIW the creator of the Chang Hon system shows examples of an application for most every move in a form when performed as specified. Certainly stylized but they provide a convenient point from which the specified performance can be morphed 360 degrees as needed. This is not to say that reasonable minds can not disagree on his ideas, nor that the "Art" is absent from the specified performance. Quite to the contrary there are instances where he relates certain symbolic purpose behind certain moves and even the pattern diagram (The directions the pattern moves)
 
If you can create a form of 20 moves that the 1st move can set up the 2nd move, the 2nd move can set op for the 3rd move, ... , the 19th move can set up the 20th move, and you try not to repeat any move, you can give yourself a good credit in the MA world. At this point of time, I have not seen that 20 moves combo (a 20 moves form) has ever been created by anybody on this planet yet.
I would argue BJJ attack sequences and systems follow this.
  • Any individual attack can take several movements to accomplish, especially if you're using complicated guards, or the technique involves a lot of minor adjustments at each stage. For example, a Kiss of the Dragon back take involves setting up De La Riva, off-balancing your opponent with a deep De La Riva, and then a chain of motions to position yourself behind them, another couple of motions to set up the back take, and then a couple more motions to secure the back take. And this technique starts in the middle of the fight (you're already on the ground) and ends in the middle of the fight (you haven't submitted your opponent yet).
  • Attack sequences use multiple attacks in a chain to accomplish a task. For example, pull guard into DLR, use Kiss of the Dragon to take the back, threaten a choke to expose the arm, and then transition into an armbar.
  • Attack systems use multiple attack sequences with multiple paths to get where you need to go. For example, my current attack system is:
    • Pull guard, if
      • My opponent bases back, hit a tripod sweep
      • My opponent goes heavy to my right side, establish knee shield and attack cross-collar chokes and kimuras (based on what I can reach easier)
      • My opponent goes heavy to my left side, establish deep half guard and easily sweep them
      • My opponent goes into my closed guard, this establishes another subsystem, where I may play collar chokes, scissor sweeps, or overhook guard
      • My opponent kneels and plays defensively, I will play butterfly half guard
    • My primary objective from any of these positions is to eventually get to mount. With some sweeps this happens virtually automatically. With other sweeps I need to pass guard, which is another subsystem.
    • There's another system of attacks from mount, as well as my reactions to mount defenses. Ultimately if I can sweep to mount, and then my opponent recovers back inside my guard, I'm netting 6 points every cycle.
As far as my forms go, there is a reset to the flow when I turn. I go left, there's a 2-step combo. I go right, another 2-step combo. And so on. I do try to make the transitions as graceful and efficient as possible, but I'm less concerned with the flow moving from one combo to the next.

And when I say, "2-step combo" that can mean 2 techniques in a basic form, or several techniques (multiple techniques per step) in the advanced forms.
So, what is the point of your rebuttal?
I don't know how I could have made it any more clear than I already have.
 
I came up with an interesting idea for you....

General Choi learned Shotokan Karate from Funakoshi. When TKD started, they used the Shotokan Kata. These were eventually changed, rearranged and removed.

The idea would be to learn the one, some, or all.... the Shotokan Kata and use those for a starting point. Since these were used at the foundation of TKD, you would be in line with TDK. These Kata have the Bunkai.... you could keep the Bunkai or remove it and make it more aesthetical, which ever way you want to go. But, you would be starting from one of the same sources that TKD did and you could then correct the kata and make it what you want.

Just thought this might be an interesting way to look at it.... though I am probably completely wrong here, yet again....
 
Why include art in a martial arts curriculum?

I have never learned practical versions of forms. In my opinion, they don't exist in Kukkiwon Taekwondo. As you said, this goes back to Okinawan Karate, which is several generations removed from the creation of TKD, which is a few more generations removed from my training.

And if someone says it's basically dance? That's a compliment. Ballet is the toughest workout I've ever done.
Thats not what the art in martial art means. Its not Martial and art, its one concept that literally means skills of war/combat. But I digress.

Kukkiwon forms do have intended application but with concept, not techniques. The issue is with the growing focus on sport and demos, nobody teaches it. The only reason I know forms had application in mind is because my Kwan jang helped create several of them and in the past has shared intended application concepts.

If all you need is a workout and ballet is a workout then why not just do ballet? Im not trying to discourage you, just playing devils advocate. If someone signs up for a martial arts class they are going to expect some level of combat application at every stage. If its just for a workout, why should they sign up with you when they can take a zumba class for $10 down the road? If the forms arent going to directly apply to fighting, then why should they take your class instead of the kickboxing class a few miles away that can directly link every part of training back to combat practicality? These are the kinds of questions that can help you solidify the purpose and message of your system.
 
If all you need is a workout and ballet is a workout then why not just do ballet? Im not trying to discourage you, just playing devils advocate. If someone signs up for a martial arts class they are going to expect some level of combat application at every stage. If its just for a workout, why should they sign up with you when they can take a zumba class for $10 down the road? If the forms arent going to directly apply to fighting, then why should they take your class instead of the kickboxing class a few miles away that can directly link every part of training back to combat practicality? These are the kinds of questions that can help you solidify the purpose and message of your system.
We do pushups in my kickboxing class, is that coach a fraud?

If we're going to make ridiculous arguments...
 
We do pushups in my kickboxing class, is that coach a fraud?

If we're going to make ridiculous arguments...
its not a ridiculous argument. These are actual questions that I have been asked as a martial art school owner. When you are trying to enroll students a great way to expand your base is partnerships with other organizations like schools and many students shop around first. You need to be prepared to explain your system and why it works and is right for them. Again, I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm trying to help you see your system from the outside. Things that are obvious to you are not to prospective students.

Side note, it's easy to explain how being able to push body weight, i.e. pushups directly applied to combat.
 
General Choi learned Shotokan Karate from Funakoshi. When TKD started, they used the Shotokan Kata. These were eventually changed, rearranged and removed.
This is somewhat of an oversimplification. General Choi references & includes the Shorin and Shorei Kata in his 1965 text which also formed the basis for the Shotokan Kata with Shorin being the Okinawa derivation of Shaolin. So, you can look further back than Bunkai for the Shotokan system. One source is "Bubishi ,Bible of Karate" which explores the Chinese roots and applications of the techniques.
 
its not a ridiculous argument. These are actual questions that I have been asked as a martial art school owner. When you are trying to enroll students a great way to expand your base is partnerships with other organizations like schools and many students shop around first. You need to be prepared to explain your system and why it works and is right for them. Again, I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm trying to help you see your system from the outside. Things that are obvious to you are not to prospective students.

Side note, it's easy to explain how being able to push body weight, i.e. pushups directly applied to combat.
My big thing is I'm not going to compare myself to others. I find when you spend a lot of time telling people what you're not, there's not much left to tell them what you are.

The TKD school I mention in this thread did just that. He was so focused on proving that this was "real Taekwondo, not fake Taekwondo" that he missed the point entirely on what real Taekwondo was. He was so set on not being "fake" that he let what he considered fake dictate how his class runs. And because fake Taekwondo is soft, he needed to prove that his Taekwondo is hard. It's tough. It's dangerous. And if some "little fat kid" (his words) can't handle the training, then that kid isn't worth his time.

That school isn't very successful.

I'm not going to sit there and disparage kickboxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, etc. I might give some honest opinions (I don't like getting hit in the head, so Muay Thai isn't for me, and it's not for other people who don't want to get in the head regularly during sparring). But mostly instead of focusing on why people wouldn't like the other options, I'm going to focus on why people would like mine.
 
My big thing is I'm not going to compare myself to others. I find when you spend a lot of time telling people what you're not, there's not much left to tell them what you are.

The TKD school I mention in this thread did just that. He was so focused on proving that this was "real Taekwondo, not fake Taekwondo" that he missed the point entirely on what real Taekwondo was. He was so set on not being "fake" that he let what he considered fake dictate how his class runs. And because fake Taekwondo is soft, he needed to prove that his Taekwondo is hard. It's tough. It's dangerous. And if some "little fat kid" (his words) can't handle the training, then that kid isn't worth his time.

That school isn't very successful.

I'm not going to sit there and disparage kickboxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, etc. I might give some honest opinions (I don't like getting hit in the head, so Muay Thai isn't for me, and it's not for other people who don't want to get in the head regularly during sparring). But mostly instead of focusing on why people wouldn't like the other options, I'm going to focus on why people would like mine.
What metrics are you going to use to measure your ideas against? Please tell me it is not Youtube and Google.
 
What metrics are you going to use to measure your ideas against? Please tell me it is not Youtube and Google.
Instagram and Gemini.

I've been teaching martial arts for over a decade. I've taught Taekwondo at two different schools, Hapkido, BJJ, and cardio kickboxing, and I've been a guest coach in the Muay Thai class. I've seen enough good schools and bad schools to get a sense of what's what. I can also tell what parts of the class students connect with and what they don't.

The big metric is: if people are coming in the door, and a good chunk of them stick around, then I'm doing something right. If people don't come in the door, there's a problem with our marketing. If people don't stick around, there's a problem with my teaching.

I'm not really worried about there being a problem with my teaching, though. I remember when I first started teaching TKD, there was one parent that only wanted to bring his kid to class if it was a class I was teaching. All of the coaches/professors in my current school are trying to steal me to help with their classes. More often than not, when we have a new guy in the BJJ class, I'm the one that the Professor will pair with them for their first class. In fact, we recently hired a new Professor to run our main gym (so the owner can float more easily between all of our locations), and right now I'm basically training him on how we run things.

Side note: it's really fun being able to boss around a black belt.

I'm not going into this complacent that I will be good because of my history. I've learned from past mistakes that complacency breeds stagnation and leads to unforced errors. But I am going in with confidence based on the feedback I've received from people throughout my teaching history.
 
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