Starting a new Karate dojo

[philwhite49 4]

I’ve been teaching my family karate for the past 4 months and we are now thinking of offering classes to the community next year. We reached out to the local facebook group and had some very positive feedback. I know a lot of this will not translate to students however my wife also does cubscouts with my son so we are fairly involved with a lot of the same kids reguardless.

I also started doing karate back in 94 and have been a black belt for a long time so I’m not new to karate or teaching.

I’ve been doing some research on monthly fees and was interested in knowing what some of the folks on MT think are reasonable.

We live in a rural area in Iowa but there is a dance studio in town that charges close to $100 per month. There are no MA dojos within 30 minutes of town. The AI searches come in around $65-$125 for our area. I was thinking more towards the lower end of this to start.

I have a fairly nice home dojo with all new mats, pads, wavemaster, blockers, rebrake boards, etc. We would also be interested in building a separate building if there is enough interest in the future.

We would be teaching twice a week. 2 kids classes and one youth/adult class. So we would be offering around 100 classes a year to each group. I want to keep pricing straight forward and skip belt testing fees. Just bake it in to the monthly cost.

Any advice from those who run or started their own dojo would be appreciated. Also would like to know the student perspective. We are a non-afilliated Karate school and I have crafted all of the curriculum. I know some folks want lineage or portability of belts through association. I’m not sure if that will be as much of a concern since this is a new opportunity in a town that doesn’t have a lot of activities.

Not looking to get rich but I would like it to financially make sense. Thanks.

 

[HighKick]

I’ve been teaching my family karate for the past 4 months and we are now thinking of offering classes to the community next year. We reached out to the local facebook group and had some very positive feedback. I know a lot of this will not translate to students however my wife also does cubscouts with my son so we are fairly involved with a lot of the same kids reguardless.

I also started doing karate back in 94 and have been a black belt for a long time so I’m not new to karate or teaching.

I’ve been doing some research on monthly fees and was interested in knowing what some of the folks on MT think are reasonable.

We live in a rural area in Iowa but there is a dance studio in town that charges close to $100 per month. There are no MA dojos within 30 minutes of town. The AI searches come in around $65-$125 for our area. I was thinking more towards the lower end of this to start.

I have a fairly nice home dojo with all new mats, pads, wavemaster, blockers, rebrake boards, etc. We would also be interested in building a separate building if there is enough interest in the future.

We would be teaching twice a week. 2 kids classes and one youth/adult class. So we would be offering around 100 classes a year to each group. I want to keep pricing straight forward and skip belt testing fees. Just bake it in to the monthly cost.

Any advice from those who run or started their own dojo would be appreciated. Also would like to know the student perspective. We are a non-afilliated Karate school and I have crafted all of the curriculum. I know some folks want lineage or portability of belts through association. I’m not sure if that will be as much of a concern since this is a new opportunity in a town that doesn’t have a lot of activities.

Not looking to get rich but I would like it to financially make sense. Thanks.

Think liability, liability, liability. Check with your homeowners insurance provider. I doubt they will cover you at all and may even pull your current policy.
I do not mean to be a 'Debbie Downer', but you have to do this smart and the right way. Teaching family and a couple friends is a Long way from bringing for pay clientele into your home.

What you may be able to do is sublet space from the dance studio (I started out this way in reverse, renting space to the dance studio). It can be win/win for both of you.

 

[Prince_Alarming62 5]

Welp, best of luck.

 

[skribs123 143]

What my BJJ Professor did is start low, and increase prices as classes fill up.

 

[philwhite49 4]

This is good info. Thanks Highkick. I called our insurance company and they are looking into it but it appears to be a no-go.

 

[isshinryuronin13 13]

Think liability, liability, liability

Back in the day no one thought to sue the owner if they got a broken finger or rib or needed a few stitches. We all knew what we were in for and assumed the risk. Aside from gross negligence legal action just wasn't a thing. Not that it was brutal; Injury needing a doctor was very rare but jammed fingers, bruises and occasional split lip were par for the course. What a shame school owners have to deal with this BS nowadays, especially in the USA even though most people have health insurance. Well, it's a new world and a new crop of pampered students. It's the new TMA. That's just the way I feel as someone who has seen many changes. Thanks to this new-fangled thing called inter-net I can share my feelings (see, I'm a modern man is some respects) with all of you.

 

[Flying Crane]

Back in the day no one thought to sue the owner if they got a broken finger or rib or needed a few stitches. We all knew what we were in for and assumed the risk. Aside from gross negligence legal action just wasn't a thing. Not that it was brutal; Injury needing a doctor was very rare but jammed fingers, bruises and occasional split lip were par for the course. What a shame school owners have to deal with this BS nowadays, especially in the USA even though most people have health insurance. Well, it's a new world and a new crop of pampered students. It's the new TMA. That's just the way I feel as someone who has seen many changes. Thanks to this new-fangled thing called inter-net I can share my feelings (see, I'm a modern man is some respects) with all of you.

It isn’t necessarily the student who will sue, but the medical insurance provider.

A couple years ago I stuck a sword in my own leg while practicing on my own in my back yard and had to go to the emergency room for stitches. Not long afterwards I received a letter from an investigation company on behalf of my health insurance company, asking pointed questions (no pun intended) about what happened. It was clear to me that they were looking to blame someone else who they could go after to recover the medical costs.

The student might have no desire to sue. The insurance company might sue and the student will have no ability to stop them.

 

[Stuarto81]

Back in the day no one thought to sue the owner if they got a broken finger or rib or needed a few stitches. We all knew what we were in for and assumed the risk. Aside from gross negligence legal action just wasn't a thing. Not that it was brutal; Injury needing a doctor was very rare but jammed fingers, bruises and occasional split lip were par for the course. What a shame school owners have to deal with this BS nowadays, especially in the USA even though most people have health insurance. Well, it's a new world and a new crop of pampered students. It's the new TMA. That's just the way I feel as someone who has seen many changes. Thanks to this new-fangled thing called inter-net I can share my feelings (see, I'm a modern man is some respects) with all of you.

I think it's ridiculous as well. People know that they are getting involved in a physical activity that can be rough by nature. I myself would never even consider suing my school if I broke something. Already I have hyper extended my elbow, pulled a hamstring, and tweaked my thumb. To me it just comes with the package. You're going to get bruised, tweaked, and possibly punched in the face if you don't move or block. I made it clear to my instructors that I am prepared for that and don't take things personal in training.

 

[HighKick]

It isn’t necessarily the student who will sue, but the medical insurance provider.

A couple years ago I stuck a sword in my own leg while practicing on my own in my back yard and had to go to the emergency room for stitches. Not long afterwards I received a letter from an investigation company on behalf of my health insurance company, asking pointed questions (no pun intended) about what happened. It was clear to me that they were looking to blame someone else who they could go after to recover the medical costs.

The student might have no desire to sue. The insurance company might sue and the student will have no ability to stop them.

I think the glaring difference in your case was the fact that a stabbing injury occurred and was caused by an unknown weapon (at the time). An injury like that should be fully vetted for a number of reasons. Especially if there was no accident report to go by or back up your claims (no slur intended).
Absolutely, if there had been a circumstance where the insurance company could have gone after someone/some thing else, they would have.

Many years ago, my oldest brother got a pretty nasty chainsaw cut on his calf. A tree bucked back on him.
About a month later, he started getting letters from his insurance company similar to what you describe and he even got a visit from the local LE asking for an explanation/verification because they needed to write a report. Apparently the ER wrote it up as a cutting/stabbing incident and it had to be investigated.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think the glaring difference in your case was the fact that a stabbing injury occurred and was caused by an unknown weapon (at the time). An injury like that should be fully vetted for a number of reasons. Especially if there was no accident report to go by or back up your claims (no slur intended).
Absolutely, if there had been a circumstance where the insurance company could have gone after someone/some thing else, they would have.

Many years ago, my oldest brother got a pretty nasty chainsaw cut on his calf. A tree bucked back on him.
About a month later, he started getting letters from his insurance company similar to what you describe and he even got a visit from the local LE asking for an explanation/verification because they needed to write a report. Apparently the ER wrote it up as a cutting/stabbing incident and it had to be investigated.

I actually believe that a student is highly unlikely to sue over minor bumps and bruises or tripping over his own feet. I doubt most people are motivated to sue over something minor. If the injury is not severe enough to seek medical attention then he would have difficulty convincing a judge or jury that he suffered a loss. Without a loss, there is no basis for a suit and it would likely be thrown out. However, he could still file the suit and the teacher would need to defend it or suffer a default judgement, and that defense could still be very expensive. Insurance helps pay for that.

If a student suffers an injury severe enough to seek medical attention, then the insurance provider could get involved. The insurance provider can claim a loss, that being the cost of medical treatment that the company paid on the claim. Regardless of the type of injury, whether it is a stabbing (even self-inflicted) as in my own case, or a sprain or broken nose suffered during sparring or some other kind of drills, or a broken hand or foot in the practice of board or brick breaking, I think makes no difference. The fact is, the insurance company paid out on medical costs and now they claim a loss. They may decide to go after the instructor/school because they think the instructor acted negligently or recklessly, or even maliciously, and they seek compensation for their loss. Now the school really needs to defend against this suit and needs that liability coverage.

I can see the point in LEO paying a visit on something that might have been a stabbing. But I suspect the insurance companies are more likely to be the plaintiff if a civil suit is filed, regardless of the type of injury, so long as there are medical costs that result. Most people have no interest in suing their instructor unless the instructor has been acting maliciously, which could happen. But the medical insurance companies are all about business, and they look for every way to avoid paying in a claim. If they can blame it on someone else, they will.

Medical Insurance companies are real a-holes.

 

[HighKick]

I actually believe that a student is highly unlikely to sue over minor bumps and bruises or tripping over his own feet. I doubt most people are motivated to sue over something minor. If the injury is not severe enough to seek medical attention then he would have difficulty convincing a judge or jury that he suffered a loss. Without a loss, there is no basis for a suit and it would likely be thrown out. However, he could still file the suit and the teacher would need to defend it or suffer a default judgement, and that defense could still be very expensive. Insurance helps pay for that.

If a student suffers an injury severe enough to seek medical attention, then the insurance provider could get involved. The insurance provider can claim a loss, that being the cost of medical treatment that the company paid on the claim. Regardless of the type of injury, whether it is a stabbing (even self-inflicted) as in my own case, or a sprain or broken nose suffered during sparring or some other kind of drills, or a broken hand or foot in the practice of board or brick breaking, I think makes no difference. The fact is, the insurance company paid out on medical costs and now they claim a loss. They may decide to go after the instructor/school because they think the instructor acted negligently or recklessly, or even maliciously, and they seek compensation for their loss. Now the school really needs to defend against this suit and needs that liability coverage.

I can see the point in LEO paying a visit on something that might have been a stabbing. But I suspect the insurance companies are more likely to be the plaintiff if a civil suit is filed, regardless of the type of injury, so long as there are medical costs that result. Most people have no interest in suing their instructor unless the instructor has been acting maliciously, which could happen. But the medical insurance companies are all about business, and they look for every way to avoid paying in a claim. If they can blame it on someone else, they will.

Medical Insurance companies are real a-holes.

I would say this is spot on.
Insurance companies are able to stay in business and make profit based on the volume of customers and how they invest the 'borrowed' premiums. Their greater focus is on selling/adding new policies. Secondary to this is regulating the payout (control the bleeding). Claim fraud is like third or even lower in order.
If you have ever tried to read the contract language in-depth, it does state several ways to justifiably deny a claim. These are rather vague and subjective boilerplate statements that can be an argument for denial in about any claim.
Analytics are so heavily built into the business model that we (school owners) are affected by most all schools based on premium cost. In other words, even if you have never had a claim, your premiums are affected by the industry averages. In my experience, a school owner can affect this if they have a good relationship with their provider. I have argued and won on a rate increase twice. One, the student was stupid and the injury was totally their fault. It happened during class so it was a claim. The second was outside the building and it was grey whether it was on my curtilage or not.
The effort it takes to manage cost is just part of the cost of doing business.

 

[philwhite49 4]

We found a comercial space and figured out insurance so we are moving ahead. No dates yet but we are getting close. My god there is a lot to take in. I never thought I'd be running a background check on myself.

 

[HighKick]

We found a comercial space and figured out insurance so we are moving ahead. No dates yet but we are getting close. My god there is a lot to take in. I never thought I'd be running a background check on myself.

Great to hear! I have a lot of business and startup experience. Two Dojang owner since 1986. Glad to answer any questions you run into.

 

[philwhite49 4]

Great to hear! I have a lot of business and startup experience. Two Dojang owner since 1986. Glad to answer any questions you run into.

Thanks, I'm sure I'll have lots of questions.

 

[philwhite49 4]

We are planning for two sign up/free class events on the 15th and 18th and then potentially two more in January. We've had good facebook interest so far. It feels like there is a lot of momentum since we have a very underserved community. We've also been pushing a lot of content to hype it. There isn't a lot for kids here besides seasonal sports, 4h, and church. It will be interesting to see how things turn out. If all goes well we are planning on officially starting on February 2nd.

 

[HighKick]

We are planning for two sign up/free class events on the 15th and 18th and then potentially two more in January. We've had good facebook interest so far. It feels like there is a lot of momentum since we have a very underserved community. We've also been pushing a lot of content to hype it. There isn't a lot for kids here besides seasonal sports, 4h, and church. It will be interesting to see how things turn out. If all goes well we are planning on officially starting on February 2nd.

Awesome!
Do you have a business plan? Hopefully so. Don’t panic if you operant in the red for 6-months or so. This is one of the most important things to plan for.

 

[philwhite49 4]

Yes we do. Just taking things one step at a time now.

 

[Andrew Green]

Decide on your goals first. If you want a full time business that supports you and has paid staff, plan for that. If you want a PT hobby that has a small group but doesn't really make money, plan for that.

Don't listen to people that have very different goals for their school.

Oh, and your expenses will be higher than you think. Probably a good amount higher. Worst thing you can do is underprice yourself and not be able to pay your bills even though you have enough students.

 

[HighKick]

Decide on your goals first. If you want a full time business that supports you and has paid staff, plan for that. If you want a PT hobby that has a small group but doesn't really make money, plan for that.

Don't listen to people that have very different goals for their school.

Oh, and your expenses will be higher than you think. Probably a good amount higher. Worst thing you can do is underprice yourself and not be able to pay your bills even though you have enough students.

Conversely, @/philwhite needs to get a base of business in the door asap, to keep the doors open. As I understand it, this will be in a somewhat rural area with no other commercial MA's schools. Since the initial goal is Not exclusive, private classes that usually cost more, I would know what my local competition is charging (gyms, dance schools, gymnastics, etc...). Until the brand is established, exclusivity/uniqueness is a Much harder sell up front. The #1 reason commercial schools operate in the black is because of robust kids programs.

Establish the product, build the brand, upsell. In that order.

 

[philwhite49 4]

There are no martial arts schools in the area. We looked at the pricing of the local dance school as someone to compare with. Our year one plan is to build our student base and see how many kids we can retain after white belt. We are starting with an introductory program for 3 months to build interest and keep costs low for potential students. After that the monthly rates go up a bit. We want to make sure the first three months is a great experience so that they choose to stay and parents feel enough value to absorb the cost of sparring gear. I do have a wholesale acct with awma and century which helps but when you ask folks to drop close to $200 on gear it can be a lot.