1st Dan Testing Fee

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Twin Fist

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All is not doom and gloom. As you said, he has his 2nd degree cert, from the KKW, no one can take that away. Well, I guess if she made a stink she MIGHT be able to, but I wouldnt worry about it.

he can keep his school open, and teach Kung Fu, as long as he has at least ONE BB level student, they can teach the TKD classes. If he doesnt have a BB level student, as a 2nd Dan, he can promote someone to at least 1st gup. They can teach the TKD classes, and he can get someone to either promote him or promote them.

Either way works.
 

rchurch

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Yes the article is about our school. I have to admit, the spelling of his name is my fault, With the GM's accent, it sounded as if she was saying Han and not Hae. I should have gotten a copy of the article before it was printed and had it proofread.

We do consider it an extreme honor for GM Park to present him with his belt. I guess that's one good thing that has come out of this.

As far as the example of inviting Mick Jagger to his birthday party, I agree, I just wish it could be my choice to invite him or not and not just have him show up and I have to pay for it!
 

rchurch

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No, none at all. That's one thing I think we did right. It's a dba under his name only. Also, we have no contract whatsoever with her for anything.
 

rchurch

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Right now, the lease on the building is up August 1st. I'm thinking if I do anything drastic at this point there is a chance we may lose some of our students, we may not get a replacement instructor right away, etc. So, my thought is to set the groundwork for breaking away between now and August, make the change at the same time the lease is up, and if things go south after that we won't be tied into a lease and have no business. I really think the building owner will let me go a couple of months without a lease and I hope we'll have things in place for a smooth transition.
 

dortiz

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So...I also see some Hap Ki Do uniforms and mention of that ranking. May I ask by whom and what Kwan?
 

rchurch

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The Hap Ki Do is something the GM has taught my son and he mixes it in with the kung fu some. We don't teach it as a seperate art and no one is ranked in it, it's just something he has had some training in. I could be wrong, but I believe it is affiliated with a GM Choi in Houston and the Intercontinential Hap Ki Do Federation or Association. I'll ask more about it, sorry I don't know that much about it.
 

Twin Fist

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and the moral of the story is, if it doesnt have wheels, or a bedroom in it, it shouldnt cost 11K

Mr Church, make a clean break. And make it a TOTAL break
 

terryl965

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Mr Church,
Sounds like both you and your son have the right idea. Here is the thing. If he wants to teach, he can teach Kung Fu. He has his instructors cert to teach that right?

Now, TKD is an easier sell, if he wants to open a school. That much is true.

But here are the things you need to know for sure about TKD.

You do not need KKW certification.

No one needs it. the biggest advantage to it is that you get an extra sheepskin for your wall. Thats about it. yes, it does lend you some credibility, but ONLY among other TKD stylists that go through the KKW. No one outside TKD gives a rats butt for the KKW. Sorry if that offends anyone , but it is the truth.

No one in my lineage has a KKW cert and it hasnt hurt them one bit.

If he WANTS to learn TKD and teach it, fine, have him get his BB from someone legit, and he can teach it, Though i would recomend that he not event think about being a head instructor till he is at LEAST a 2nd Dan. If he really wants to learn TKD, either me or Terry can hook you up with someone close to you that is legit, hell, for that matter, I'll teach him.

Like i said, i really hope you havnt paid out this money yet. If you have, sue to get it back. DO NOT just write it off. Worse case, his GM revokes his teaching cert. Thats no great loss tho since she cant take back what he knows. And he can always get re-certified through someone else.

edited to add, you cannot afford to continue your association with this woman. Reputations are worth gold, and an instructor is known by whom he associates with. You need to sever ALL ties to this person


Actually Twin Fist you do have people with that type of line, it is GM Kurban he is a 7th Kukkiwon certified and Master Boyd he right under him all though he does not carry a KKW. So you have KKW in your linage of training.
 

IcemanSK

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and the moral of the story is, if it doesnt have wheels, or a bedroom in it, it shouldnt cost 11K

Mr Church, make a clean break. And make it a TOTAL break


Mr. Church, my GM is a student of GM Park, Hae Man. He was at my 3rd Dan test last year as well. My test cost a fraction of your son's test. I can connect you with legit folks who can give your son the same credentials for much less than your son's GM. (Heck, several folks on this board can help your son get legit credentials cheaper!)

I want to know what you mean by "teaching credentials" in addition to the KKW cert. The only I know of is only available in Korea as a course at the KKW for instructors 4th Dan & higher. (One can take the instructor's course before 4th Dan, but the certification is only given AFTER one's receives 4th Dan KKW.

Everything I've read from you still says "find another GM!"
 

Twin Fist

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Terry,
i thought Mr Kurban had gotten his 8th now?

Remind me to talk to you sometime about that, apparently there is a whole long story behind Mr Kurban going with the KKW when more or less, no one else in the DFW TKD scene from the 70's did.
 

Brad Dunne

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My confusion meter has been pegged!.....First, a goggle search for this female 8th Dan GM showed nothing. One would think, that according to that news paper article, she is the highest female Dan holder in TKD, that something would be available as to her history. That's RED FLAG #1.

Again, according to given information, she's a Kung Fu Master, in addition to being a TKD GM in addition to being a Tai Chu (?) whatever. RED FLAG #2.......To many senior ranks in totally opposite disciplines IMO.

The article stated that 3 persons received their 2nd Dan TKD from GM Park. Based on that statement, I assume that your son is now a 2nd Dan TKD/Kukkiwon certified. I find it difficult at best to relate to that promotion, if as you have stated, he studied Kung Fu and that is what he teaches. Something is surely askew here. It also stated that he teaches Hapkido and that the GM included said instructions in her curriculum. To be honest, it sounds more and more as if whatever is being taught, is being contrived from several venues, which does not make it that bad unto itself, but it should'nt be labeled as a given discipline, ie; TKD or Kung Fu.

I'm sure that you are attempting to do the "right thing" here, otherwise you would not have open this pandoras box, so to speak. The conclusion I'm drawing from all this, is that you and your son are seemingly being duped, in more ways than one.

On a side note: GM Parks visit is not of itself a condition for validating your GM. I'll just leave it at that.
 

terryl965

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Terry,
i thought Mr Kurban had gotten his 8th now?

Remind me to talk to you sometime about that, apparently there is a whole long story behind Mr Kurban going with the KKW when more or less, no one else in the DFW TKD scene from the 70's did.

I will be heading your way in a couple of weeks so maybe ZI will have some time for lunch or dinner and we can meet and talk.
 

Senjojutsu

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My confusion meter has been pegged!.....First, a goggle search for this female 8th Dan GM showed nothing. One would think, that according to that news paper article, she is the highest female Dan holder in TKD, that something would be available as to her history. That's RED FLAG #1.
The linked article states:
"She has studied martial arts for 70 years and owns martial arts studios in 36 different countries worldwide."

Does anyone else find that an odd phrase, "owning" - as in real estate?

So could this GM, who appears to have began her training at age six, name at least least six of the countries she owns (now open) schools if asked?

When was the last time she did a world tour of her empire?

Or am I just being a cynical old fart and/or misogynist and begin to sense another Tae Yun Kim (a.k.a. Kyong-ae Fontaine)??
:EG:
 

IcemanSK

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The linked article states:
"She has studied martial arts for 70 years and owns martial arts studios in 36 different countries worldwide."

Does anyone else find that an odd phrase, "owning" - as in real estate?

So could this GM, who appears to have began her training at age six, name at least least six of the countries she owns (now open) schools if asked?

When was the last time she did a world tour of her empire?

Or am I just being a cynical old fart and/or misogynist and begin to sense another Tae Yun Kim (a.k.a. Kyong-ae Fontaine)??
:EG:

This gentleman's GM is Kung Fu, not TKD. We're not talking about a TKD female GM.
 

jks9199

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The linked article states:
"She has studied martial arts for 70 years and owns martial arts studios in 36 different countries worldwide."

Does anyone else find that an odd phrase, "owning" - as in real estate?

So could this GM, who appears to have began her training at age six, name at least least six of the countries she owns (now open) schools if asked?

When was the last time she did a world tour of her empire?

Or am I just being a cynical old fart and/or misogynist and begin to sense another Tae Yun Kim (a.k.a. Kyong-ae Fontaine)??
:EG:
Owning a studio/kwan/dojo/dojang, in the sense of owning a business or a building, makes sense. In many cases, TKD schools especially (in my experience) are franchised from a successful school. Some of these franchised groups cover many states.

Not that there aren't some significant red flags about the instructor here...

Let me return to the topic at hand, though... The idea that rchurch is promoting is great... but expensive. The simple fact is that if you're going to run a school, rather than have a club renting space, you almost have to run it on a sound business footing. Very few 18 year olds, no matter their training, have the combined maturity, knowledge, and general wherewithal to do this successfully. Especially if they're also trying to attend a demanding college program, like pharmacy. Unless you're extremely careful, and very dedicated -- something is going to suffer. Almost certainly your pocketbook and bank accounts will...
 

Brad Dunne

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This gentleman's GM is Kung Fu, not TKD. We're not talking about a TKD female GM...................

"Grandmaster Myong Hui Munoz. At 76 years old, Munoz, 8th Dan black belt, is one of the highest-ranking women in the world".
When I see the term GM and Dan ranking, as opposed to "Sash", I read it as TKD. Why would a Kung Fu sifu/master or whatever term is correct, invite a bonifide TKD GM to a 2nd Dan testing, if he/she was not ranked in TKD. To me it makes no sense to shell out the dough to bring someone of high stature in TKD in, if your not directly affiliated with TKD. Just MHO....
 

IcemanSK

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This gentleman's GM is Kung Fu, not TKD. We're not talking about a TKD female GM...................

"Grandmaster Myong Hui Munoz. At 76 years old, Munoz, 8th Dan black belt, is one of the highest-ranking women in the world".
When I see the term GM and Dan ranking, as opposed to "Sash", I read it as TKD. Why would a Kung Fu sifu/master or whatever term is correct, invite a bonifide TKD GM to a 2nd Dan testing, if he/she was not ranked in TKD. To me it makes no sense to shell out the dough to bring someone of high stature in TKD in, if your not directly affiliated with TKD. Just MHO....

I'm going by the fact that rchurch said she was his KF GM in an eariler post. Your question of "why invite GM Park to a test" is still valid, Brad. It makes no sense. Why GM Park?

Furthermore, if she charged each BB candidate either $4K or $7K (depending on rank of candidate) she racked in at least $20K & as much as $26K (if I read it right). Not even GM Park charges that much for a test! Terry & Miles would gladly do a legit belt test for 5 students for half that, I'm sure.
 

terryl965

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I'm going by the fact that rchurch said she was his KF GM in an eariler post. Your question of "why invite GM Park to a test" is still valid, Brad. It makes no sense. Why GM Park?

Furthermore, if she charged each BB candidate either $4K or $7K (depending on rank of candidate) she racked in at least $20K & as much as $26K (if I read it right). Not even GM Park charges that much for a test! Terry & Miles would gladly do a legit belt test for 5 students for half that, I'm sure.

**** if I could get half try a fraction for the same thing.
 

Brad Dunne

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"TKD was something the GM came up with strictly as a business decision. He did some TKD training for a few years along with the kung fu, and studied TKD extensively for over a year to get his 1st Dan. Probably averaged 6 or 7 hours per day, 3 - 6 days a week study. He is very serious about his martial arts. I do have to say she (the GM) is a good, knowlegable instructor and appreciate what she has taught him in both TKD and kung fu".

IcemanSK prompted my search of this thread, for I knew I read something about the GM and TKD. So IcemanSK gets a gold star for this....:cheers:

Now based upon the above info, it looks as if the GM has some sort of tie in to TKD. As for your son and his training in TKD, we can assume that he met the requirements of the curriculum assigned by the GM. Since each school/instructor has their own agenda, for what they expect and teach, it can explain the promotion to 2nd Dan. It's a shame, that he was kind of forced to except the additional labor of TKD training, when it looks like he really has no specific interest in it, other than bringing in students. It really cheapens the value of that 2nd Dan ranking IMO.
 
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