What is a mcdojo?

[Mider]

I don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish here. Maybe you are just gaslighting, for what purpose idk.

I have the right to an opinion. So do you. Feel free to formulate your opinion. But understand that trying to impose your opinion on others isn’t going to get you very far. And coming here to try and get widespread agreement with your opinion likewise isn’t likely to get you very far.

I feel like I’ve said this at least a couple times now. Do I need to say it again? Is there something here that you disagree with? Do you feel you can somehow impose your opinion on others and how they train? If so, please describe how you feel you can do that.

Again, what is it you are trying to accomplish here?

No, you are, you're trying to silence people for having an opinion on a business.

all this is irrelevant, you agreed with me that McDojos exist you have no argument

 

[Flying Crane]

No, you are, you're trying to silence people for having an opinion on a business.

all this is irrelevant, you agreed with me that McDojos exist you have no argument

Seriously, what are you trying to accomplish here?

 

[Mider]

Seriously, what are you trying to accomplish here?

I’m posting in a public forum, what’s exactly is your point?

 

[Buka]

Who gets to define what is trash?

As someone who taught "trash" in his early years, and a whole lot of it, I'll take the job.

I think everyone knows what the popular meaning of a McDojo is.

 

[Flying Crane]

I’m posting in a public forum, what’s exactly is your point?

I actually agreed to a certain extent with you. That happened a few posts back, in case you missed it. Except that you acknowledged it so I guess you didn’t miss it. So I guess you “won” the argument? Do you have something else you want to get off your chest, or are we done?

 

[Flying Crane]

As someone who taught "trash" in his early years, and a whole lot of it, I'll take the job.

I think everyone knows what the popular meaning of a McDojo is.

Sure, we all do.

 

[Mider]

I actually agreed to a certain extent with you. That happened a few posts back, in case you missed it. Except that you acknowledged it so I guess you didn’t miss it. So I guess you “won” the argument? Do you have something else you want to get off your chest, or are we done?

are we done what? You replied so I replied...

 

[Buka]

Sure, we all do.

Let me equate it to something else....

The biggest, most successful McDojo in the history of mankind is Washington D.C.
When I say “successful” I mean success in lining their pockets and perpetrating the beautiful, well thought out myth they sell.

They campaign, tell us what they’re going to do for us, how they’re different than the other guy.
This is you walking into a McDojo, hearing their sales pitch.

All you have to do is sign this contract.
This is you voting for them.

They will tell you the other candidate, or the other political party, really is no damn good and lies to you constantly.
This is the McDojo you got sucked into spending the next X amount of years telling you how every other dojo sucks big time and should be avoided at all costs or the world is doomed.

Then, they run for reelection, and McDojo fever is the number one hit on the charts again.

At no time during either process will either entity ask you what you need….unless they sell it at a five hundred percent mark up. And, oh, by the way, sign up again, the grand Poobah thinks you have a lot of untapped potential and talent.

 

[Flying Crane]

are we done what? You replied so I replied...

Got anything else you want to address? It’s a simple yes or no…

 

[Flying Crane]

@Mider, I don’t know why you sent this YouTube clip to me in a private message, it seems this could be discussed openly:

Along with a comment “I find your style interesting”. I am taking the comment to be one of sarcasm. You can clarify that if I am mistaken.

At any rate, what is depicted in this video isn’t my style. It isn’t that it’s just a different school teaching the same style. No, it is a different style altogether. But thanks for sharing.

 

[Mider]

@Mider, I don’t know why you sent this YouTube clip to me in a private message, it seems this could be discussed openly:

Along with a comment “I find your style interesting”. I am taking the comment to be one of sarcasm. You can clarify that if I am mistaken.

At any rate, what is depicted in this video isn’t my style. It isn’t that it’s just a different school teaching the same style. No, it is a different style altogether. But thanks for sharing.

Nope I meant it with all sincerity, I find traditional Kung Fu and many arts interesting

 

[Flying Crane]

Nope I meant it with all sincerity, I find traditional Kung Fu and many arts interesting

Ok then, to be clear, this is not my system. I don’t actually know what this is, seems to be a karate style that perhaps emphasizes its Fujian crane historical influences.

The system that I train is Tibetan crane, it is a descendant of Tibetan Lion’s Roar, one of three sister methods that splintered from the original. The other two are Lama Pai and Hop Ga. This family of methods has an entirely different origin and methodology than the Fujian crane methods.

And thanks for the clarification.

 

[Mider]

Ok then, to be clear, this is not my system. I don’t actually know what this is, seems to be a karate style that perhaps emphasizes its Fujian crane historical influences.

The system that I train is Tibetan crane, it is a descendant of Tibetan Lion’s Roar, one of three sister methods that splintered from the original. The other two are Lama Pai and Hop Ga. This family of methods has an entirely different origin and methodology than the Fujian crane methods.

And thanks for the clarification.

I see, I’ll look it up

 

[Flying Crane]

I see, I’ll look it up

I’d be happy to comment on anything you are looking at. It is an odd looking system to most people, but there is a purpose in the method. In the spirit of this thread, much of what I’ve seen online, I am not terribly impressed by. There are certain subtle details that in my understanding, make the method highly functional, but if those subtle details are missing, it can be a disaster.

I would welcome you to look at my little website, www.norcalwhitecrane.com. There are no videos attached, but some history and description.

And perhaps this discussion would be best pursued in its own thread, or via private conversation so as to not completely derail the thread.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I’d be happy to comment on anything you are looking at. It is an odd looking system to most people, but there is a purpose in the method. In the spirit of this thread, much of what I’ve seen online, I am not terribly impressed by. There are certain subtle details that in my understanding, make the method highly functional, but if those subtle details are missing, it can be a disaster.

I would welcome you to look at my little website, www.norcalwhitecrane.com. There are no videos attached, but some history and description.

And perhaps this discussion would be best pursued in its own thread, or via private conversation so as to not completely derail the thread.

I just want to point out, not in a mod standpoint, but just something I noticed reading through the thread all at once, that gave me a chuckle-he did, in fact, try to pursue the discussion in a private conversation so as to not completely derail the thread. You brought it back in here

 

[WaterGal]

IMO if people are awarding Black belts to students who can’t even defend themselves then it’s pretty much unethical. I say that because many here have the audacity to defend these type of dojo’s

I get what you're saying, and I 75% agree. But not every program is intended for practical self-defense - for example, most people studying Tai chi or Kendo aren't trying to learn to defend themselves, and the dojo they go to probably isn't promising to teach them self-defense. And it's still reasonable for a Kendo student who's gotten good at sword fighting in the Kendo style to earn a dan (black belt) rank in that, even if they couldn't practically defend themselves against a mugger on the street.

However, where it gets muddy is that there are a lot of martial arts schools out there that do promise to teach practical self-defense skills, but may or may not actually deliver on that.

 

[J. Pickard]

I think Mcdojo life's 5 signs of a mcdojo is a good list. The gist is liars and conmen running fake MA school.

 

[Flying Crane]

I just want to point out, not in a mod standpoint, but just something I noticed reading through the thread all at once, that gave me a chuckle-he did, in fact, try to pursue the discussion in a private conversation so as to not completely derail the thread. You brought it back in here

Yeah, it appears there was a misunderstanding there.

 

[Steve]

They're both highly subjective terms and are both frequently applied indiscriminately to any school or art the speaker doesn't like. However they do have different meanings.

"McDojo" is generally a term describing a business model. The idea is that it describes a school focused around maximizing profit rather than producing accomplished martial arts. Indicators might be long-term contracts, hidden expenses, frequent belt tests with accompanying fees, low rank standards, and avoidance of challenges which might scare off students, such as hard contact sparring.

Bullshido generally describes an art or practices within an art or presentations by an instructor which purport to be highly combat effective, but which are very much not so. The purest example of this would be demonstrations of magical powers such as "no-touch knockouts."

I don't find either term to be particularly useful, since they end up being just used as pejoratives for any system or school that the speaker doesn't care for. If I have a criticism to make of a system, school, or instructor I'd rather confine it to the specific matters I find objectionable. In my experience, even arts or schools which I have many issues with also often have aspects which might like or find praiseworthy. I'd rather stick to focused critique than dismiss them entirely with an overbroad insult.

I think your definitions are pretty much spot on.

I would say they are very useful, though. Like other broad terms, they are a shorthand for saying pretty much everything you wrote above. Saves a lot of time and energy in the long run if there's a shared understanding of the terms. As @Buka said, and I agree, we all know what McDojo means. It can be defined.

You can get into specifics if needed, but that's not always relevant or necessary, and often it's already been said.

 

[Buka]

There are also levels of McDojos.

Case in point. Back in the day…..I was getting a haircut. Same barber for a long time. His co-worker, Maureen, was working on the hair of a woman in the next chair. She asked me, “Buka, I need some serious help, figured you might be the one to ask.”

She tells me her husband has been training at a dojo for six months. Three months in - the owner approached him and told him they see something special in him. Want to film him and send the tape to the GM Poobah overseas. So they do.

Next thing they tell him is the Poobah replied, Poobah also sees something special, and wants the husband in an accelerated instructor’s program. Wants to get him his own school within the next year. (Six whole months he’s been training!)

Then she tells me the husband has given them forty thousand dollars, their life savings. (And this was in 1988 dollars)
They now want him to take out a loan…..

I stopped her right there, got all the details, copy of receipts, paperwork, etc. Called a friend in the FBI the next day.
Within a week they shut the place down, made arrests, and the McDojo was no more. Unfortunately their forty grand was no more, either.

I’ve done that with two schools over the years. The other one was part of the Moonies.

All these people are evil.