McDojo/McDojang and all other names

[Stuey]

I have seen this funny little phrase around recently alongside things like 'belt factory' and such. I notice that there is no real specific thread about McDojo's here. There are a few sites which try to definitively say what constitutes a mcdojo. What attributes do you think make it a MCDOJO!

 

[MBuzzy]

Pay for rank. If a studio promises a rank in a certain amount of time, skill notwithstanding, I would consider it a McDojo.

 

[ATC]

If they offer fries with your belt. :boing2:

 

[Stuey]

Pay for rank. If a studio promises a rank in a certain amount of time, skill notwithstanding, I would consider it a McDojo.

To expand upon that a little, is there a 'minimum' time it could take to gain a certain rank? If so, what is it? (time and rank) Hard to be specific I appreciate, since there are similarities in some arts and some practitioners will absort (or practice properly) quicker.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have seen this funny little phrase around recently alongside things like 'belt factory' and such. I notice that there is no real specific thread about McDojo's here. There are a few sites which try to definitively say what constitutes a mcdojo. What attributes do you think make it a MCDOJO!

Try the search function

Not sure this link will work but look here

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1568850

Otherwise just do a search on the title “mcdojo” 2 pages which amounts to 29 threads with McDojo in the title some dealing specifically with McDojos

 

[Stuey]

Try the search function
McDojos

Wow, I did not one hour ago and didnt get back any of those pages. I found it hard to believe that this subject had not been more fully explored.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Been done, not saying it is not worth revisiting, but it is, IMO, fast approaching a :deadhorse rating

 

[Stuey]

Been done, not saying it is not worth revisiting, but it is, IMO, fast approaching a :deadhorse rating

Damn, I am new here. Is there anything left?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sure there is a lot left and revisiting a topic is not necesarily a bad thing it is just some topics have been done to death.

My last post in a McDojos thread was you know it is a McDojo's if it is run by this guy

 

[terryl965]

I have seen this funny little phrase around recently alongside things like 'belt factory' and such. I notice that there is no real specific thread about McDojo's here. There are a few sites which try to definitively say what constitutes a mcdojo. What attributes do you think make it a MCDOJO!

Being able to supersize for only .59 cents.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's a personal judgement. Everybody sucks to somebody.

What one person may judge to be a good dojo offering good quality instruction, another person might judge to be a McDojo, ripping off the students with high fees, poor quality training, and very low standards for issuing rank.

It all depends on your perspective, and your own notion of standards.

 

[Steve]

There's a subtle but important distinction between McDojos and Bullshido.

A McDojo is a school where the owner is interested in making money, usually as much as is possible. Black belt clubs, regular testings for fees (usually in which no one fails), mandatory "seminars", lots of equipment to purchase and a never ending supply of things to pay for. These are some signs that you're in a McDojo. The instructor may be a very skilled martial artist and the instruction may be very high quality.

Bullshido, OTOH, is a person of questionable skills or dubious credentials teaching something they aren't competent to teach. As often as not, a bullshidoka doesn't charge a fee for their "instruction." In fact, that they don't charge for their instruction is sometimes used as an excuse.

 

[Flying Crane]

There's a subtle but important distinction between McDojos and Bullshido.

A McDojo is a school where the owner is interested in making money, usually as much as is possible. Black belt clubs, regular testings for fees (usually in which no one fails), mandatory "seminars", lots of equipment to purchase and a never ending supply of things to pay for. These are some signs that you're in a McDojo. The instructor may be a very skilled martial artist and the instruction may be very high quality.

Bullshido, OTOH, is a person of questionable skills or dubious credentials teaching something they aren't competent to teach. As often as not, a bullshidoka doesn't charge a fee for their "instruction." In fact, that they don't charge for their instruction is sometimes used as an excuse.

good points. I've never considered the distinctions quite like that before.

 

[ATC]

There's a subtle but important distinction between McDojos and Bullshido.

A McDojo is a school where the owner is interested in making money, usually as much as is possible. Black belt clubs, regular testings for fees (usually in which no one fails), mandatory "seminars", lots of equipment to purchase and a never ending supply of things to pay for. These are some signs that you're in a McDojo. The instructor may be a very skilled martial artist and the instruction may be very high quality.

Bullshido, OTOH, is a person of questionable skills or dubious credentials teaching something they aren't competent to teach. As often as not, a bullshidoka doesn't charge a fee for their "instruction." In fact, that they don't charge for their instruction is sometimes used as an excuse.

Very interesting indeed. If you take that twist on it, then a McDojo could be an OK thing. Just an expensive one.

Like saying that a car manufacture (take BMW for example) may produce high quality cars vs. some joe bob that tries to make his own from scrap parts that he picked up somewhere.

The car manufacture is out to make money but they also still produce a high quality car at the same time.

Make you go hhmmmmm.... good post.

 

[Steve]

Very interesting indeed. If you take that twist on it, then a McDojo could be an OK thing. Just an expensive one.

Like saying that a car manufacture (take BMW for example) may produce high quality cars vs. some joe bob that tries to make his own from scrap parts that he picked up somewhere.

The car manufacture is out to make money but they also still produce a high quality car at the same time.

Make you go hhmmmmm.... good post.

Just to be clear, though, the two are often intertwined. It's the desire to make more money that often leads competent martial artists to teach things they're not competent to teach. For example, the skilled karateka who "adds" BJJ to the curriculum.

Oh, the tangled web we weave...

 

[Stac3y]

Er.... when "Riverdance" is considered a kata? :lol:

 

[ATC]

Just to be clear, though, the two are often intertwined. It's the desire to make more money that often leads competent martial artists to teach things they're not competent to teach. For example, the skilled karateka who "adds" BJJ to the curriculum.

Oh, the tangled web we weave...

Oh yes, we understand.

 

[MJS]

I have seen this funny little phrase around recently alongside things like 'belt factory' and such. I notice that there is no real specific thread about McDojo's here. There are a few sites which try to definitively say what constitutes a mcdojo. What attributes do you think make it a MCDOJO!

1) Schools/instructors that put quantity over quality.

2) Schools that have kids running around with black belts, who are not even in their teens yet.

3) Schools that offer every program under the sun, with the sole purpose of just raking in more cash.

I'm at work right now, but these are a start.

 

[Josh Oakley]

based on some of these descriptions my school is a mcdojo. Based on others, my school is definately not a mcDojo. Interesting.

 

[Stuey]

My own school is also considered a mcdojo based on some of the criteria I have seen else where. I guess its just a fine line sometimes. One solution does not suit all, but then this has always been the case.