What is a mcdojo?

[Flying Crane]

There are also levels of McDojos.

Case in point. Back in the day…..I was getting a haircut. Same barber for a long time. His co-worker, Maureen, was working on the hair of a woman in the next chair. She asked me, “Buka, I need some serious help, figured you might be the one to ask.”

She tells me her husband has been training at a dojo for six months. Three months in - the owner approached him and told him they see something special in him. Want to film him and send the tape to the GM Poobah overseas. So they do.

Next thing they tell him is the Poobah replied, Poobah also sees something special, and wants the husband in an accelerated instructor’s program. Wants to get him his own school within the next year. (Six whole months he’s been training!)

Then she tells me the husband has given them forty thousand dollars, their life savings. (And this was in 1988 dollars)
They now want him to take out a loan…..

I stopped her right there, got all the details, copy of receipts, paperwork, etc. Called a friend in the FBI the next day.
Within a week they shut the place down, made arrests, and the McDojo was no more. Unfortunately their forty grand was no more, either.

I’ve done that with two schools over the years. The other one was part of the Moonies.

All these people are evil.

They are evil and they are criminals, plain and simple. I guess that isn’t the definition of McDojo, in my opinion.

I’m thinking more in the line of, a big chain of schools designed to get maximum penetration in every market with a consistent training program from one school to the next, with a low baseline quality of instruction so that nobody gets frustrated and everybody gets a new belt every time, and everybody keeps writing a cheque.

Of course my whole point prior comes into the picture: who decides what is high or low quality? But that’s another discussion.

I guess I never thought of a McDojo as being downright criminal. They just offer an overall low quality product. Just like, ya know, McDonalds. Some people actually like eating there. The food will keep you alive, as long as you don’t eat it all the time (just watch Supersize Me for an example of what can go wrong) but it is inarguable that the quality is low. But there is nothing illegal or blatantly criminal about that. But maybe there ought to be.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

There are different definitions, but the short answer is that it's a school which focuses more on making money than on teaching quality martial arts.

There are McDojos out there with very good instruction, but the general implication is that the quality is often questionable.

Some symptoms of a mcdojo are contracts, excessive fees, compulsory belt testings and/or "seminars", automatic promotions, black belt clubs and other things along these lines.

There really isn't one good defintion. It's more a spectrum, involving specific organizational behaviours.

--They come up with their language within fighting

--Use broad vague descriptions for programs (legit places are straightforward about what they're teaching and what it's based in). Everyone does a bit of marketing, but there is hype to get your money and attention, and then trying to make the learning "an experience" as supposed to just teaching the stuff as is.

--Don't give credit to people they learned things from

--Foster a sense of club elitism

--Don't really push you mentally and physically to earn a rank (if they have them--the last time I earned rank at a place, they put me through the ringer. I had to remember everything I'd been taught, while trying to catch my breath, fighting through muscle fatigue, and avoid throwing up).

--Will upgrade you, for a price.

--Try to sell you gear, for twice the price you can get it on Amazon or a local shop.

--Refuse to let you touch given training equipment or teach you stuff, until you are "level x,y,z." Legit places won't be against it, but might emphasize if you haven't mastered certain things yet. An instructor once refused to let me examine an inert training gun, literally because I wasn't the right rank yet

--Their head instructors' martial arts background, is a certification from an organization that has little to no street cred. Sub-instructors may or may not be only directly certified by the head instructor, but that's not really a problem by itself.

--Don't allow sparring (unless you know for a fact they are teaching legit stuff, this is an absolute deal breaker)

The reality is, depending on what you're trying to learn and its accessibility, you're gonna have to put up with some of this.

The tactical and traditional martial arts communities you have to be careful with, as they often work hard to make themselves sound special, and its a lot harder to find people who have learned from the source. The only way to really know, without experience, is to look at their credentials and ask around. Because these communities are smaller than the sport community, it can be difficult to verify.

A sport gym may or may not have a toxic culture, but their nature of sparring and competition forces natural weeding out of ********.

 

[mograph]

The only way to really know, without experience, is to look at their credentials and ask around.

Yep. It's really hard to evaluate some schools, especially "internal" schools, without having a high level of skill.

 

[Buka]

McEverything.

 

[Xue Sheng]

 

[Darren]

A McDojo waters down the standards of proficiency in order to cater to a larger market for the purposes of profit. Not everyone is cut out to be a martial artist. You need to have the willpower to put in the effort, not to mention the time. With 24 hours in a day and maybe 80 years to live you can't do everything so sacrifices have to be made. If you're unwilling or unable to sacrifice what you need to in order to invest adequately in your MA training, you'll probably find your performance unsatisfactory and get discouraged, not a low confidence thing but perhaps a bit of cautious cynicism. This creates a market in which McDojo's depend on the "acceptance-for-the-sake-of-convenience" or naivete of the practitioner. Some who've put the blood sweat and tears into their training might resent those who take karate for 6 months and buy a black belt for $1000. Normally I have no problem with people deluding themselves as it's their prerogative but I find the McDojo's dependancy on naivete to be predatory.

I resent when people call my business a McDojo. I run a respectable two week internet correspondance course that caters to busy lifestyles for people who want a black belt but understandably don't want to put in the effort or don't have the time. The course is $200, plus a $14 testing fee, $40 for the black belt, $25 for the certificate plus shipping and handling. For those who are interested in a more in depth course I offer a 3 month Menkyo Kaiden accellerated course for $2000, $40 for the black belt, $5 per dan ($50), and $50 for the menkyo kaiden certificate (ooooh, lamenated...)

If you're interested I also do IQ testing. It really works. I scored 167 on a test I made myself, and with an IQ like mine you know it's well designed and accurate.

LOL!!!!

 

[Gyakuto]

 

[punisher73]

As others have noted, there isn't a standard definition to what a "mcdojo" is.

I have seen many people define it as ANY school that isn't a "fighting school" with lots of full contact sparring all the time. Other people define it as a school that makes you sign a contract that GAURANTEES you a black belt in X amount of time.

As my old college roommate used to say, "everyone sucks to somebody else".

 

[Buka]

As others have noted, there isn't a standard definition to what a "mcdojo" is.

I have seen many people define it as ANY school that isn't a "fighting school" with lots of full contact sparring all the time. Other people define it as a school that makes you sign a contract that GAURANTEES you a black belt in X amount of time.

As my old college roommate used to say, "everyone sucks to somebody else".

Yeah, there’s a lot of definitions for sure.
But any place that guarantees a black belt in a certain amount of time under contract is both a heartless con and a damn shame.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I've seen this video before and not a fan. It's basically comparing top athletes to average Joe's.

As an example, you could do the same thing comparing the running club run out of the shoe store down the street, to the running club at the local university where only serious racers train.

 

[Gyakuto]

I've seen this video before and not a fan. It's basically comparing top athletes to average Joe's.

As an example, you could do the same thing comparing the running club run out of the shoe store down the street, to the running club at the local university where only serious racers train.

At the beginning of the video, yes, but later on there seem to be some ordinary dojo people. McDojo seem to lack ’kime’…that snappy, ‘digital’ end to their techniques. They’re very ‘analogue’ with a gradual decrease in power, speed and motion.

 

[Oily Dragon]

bad choreography vs good choreography as far as the kata videos are concerned. It's actually really hard to get a group of people to time their movements perfectly in synch.

The BJJ instruct clips at the end are good, specially the choke and ankle lock. It's funny how much useful instruct you can get from a 20 second snip, when the material is solid.

I felt bad for the kid who got clocked sparring in the gym...it seemed like two kids sparring in protective gear, and one got KO'd. But the video caption says "Winner: white belt". So? That's how sparring works. Not sure it reflects on that school.

Channel owner, "Leaver", looks like a young guy pretty full of himself. I'm guessing he's also in some of the "real dojo" videos. Not sure a black belt this young really knows all that much.

Hubris abounds in some of these self-titled "real dojos".

 

[Oily Dragon]

At the beginning of the video, yes, but later on there seem to be some ordinary dojo people. McDojo seem to lack ’kime’…that snappy, ‘digital’ end to their techniques. They’re very ‘analogue’ with a gradual decrease in power, speed and motion.

This is really a shaming video that groups in a lot of different people with different skillsets. Good, bad, ugly.

McDojo is like a business model, you pay us $$, we give you belts. They can teach legit stuff, but the grading and ranking is sus. Hence the kiddie black belts.

And plenty of "Real Dojo" places aren't doing that, but still teaching things they claim are real but lack alive elements like resistance. Lots of black belts who can step in cadence, most would die in a serious fight.

Let's face it, a lot of those "real dojo" people have the same snap as they would over a semi competent full contact combat sports fighters knee.

The guy who posted that video to his channel looks like a twig with an attitude. Such people aren't as impressive as they want to appear.

 

[Gyakuto]

bad choreography vs good choreography as far as the kata videos are concerned. It's actually really hard to get a group of people to time their movements perfectly in synch.

Yes that’s true. I’ve seen people training to metronomes to get it right. But despite the asynchrony, the individual performances are ‘arm wavy’ with any completed kicking leg’s weight dragging the body forward and down….the usual signs or poor performance.

Channel owner, "Leaver", looks like a young guy pretty full of himself. I'm guessing he's also in some of the "real dojo" videos. Not sure a black belt this young really knows all that much.

Hubris abounds in some of these self-titled "real dojos".

View attachment 30294

Wow! I wish my hair was that thick!

 

[Oily Dragon]

Yes that’s true. I’ve seen people training to metronomes to get it right. But despite the asynchrony, the individual performances are ‘arm wavy’ with any completed kicking leg’s weight dragging the body forward and down….the usual signs or poor performance.

Wow! I wish my hair was that thick!

Pretty sure it's a wig.

OYSRONG Short 11.81'' Black Men Curly Fluffy Curly Cosplay Heat Resistant Halloween Fibre Wig Amazon.com

All I see is vulnerability.