McDojos

[mograph]

Replace martial arts with something else. [...] How good would you expect a child to be at piano? I wouldn't expect concert capability.

Yep. Of course, that applies to the average child. Sure, there are prodigies and natural talents, but we shouldn't set the bar for child martial artists too high ... at least in an individualistic society.

 

[Kwon Bup]

In my experience, it seems most people walk in for recreation, not self defense. Recreation meaning exercise, socialization, stress relief, etc. While most of us here are there for the combative aspects (self defense or whatever other semantic label they use) among other aspects as well, most aren't truly after the combative aspect IMO.

Il

In my experience, it seems most people walk in for recreation, not self defense. Recreation meaning exercise, socialization, stress relief, etc. While most of us here are there for the combative aspects (self defense or whatever other semantic label they use) among other aspects as well, most aren't truly after the combative aspect IMO.

I am not sure I agree wi

Welcome to MartialTalk Michael. You will find that new members get a lot of attention.
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Thank you and hello too you. I figured that I was being taken through a ringer. But, I didn't mind. It let me know that this forum is serious...people who love the arts tend to be protective of what they have done, do and believe. I rather enjoyed it.

 

[Kwon Bup]

Perfect. You should be aware that Doshinkan has been identified by some as a "McDojo" system.

This isn't "fraudbusting," just an example of what I'm talking about. A guy in a thread about "McDojos," who is making accusations about "McDojos," is himself a member of a system accused of being a "McDojo."

That's just the way it is. Somebody, somewhere, using their own definition, which seems logical to them, thinks [fill in the blank] martial art or dojo is a "McDojo."

It's pretty well become a meaningless pejorative. Just train in what you're training, teach what you're teaching, and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing Gladys.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Well according to varying opinions...it seems that we all belong to mcdojos. Lol. But such is the nature of the martial arts.

 

[Kwon Bup]

As a matter of fact, I recently visited a Doshinkan dojo in the area, while wanting a place to socialize, I wanted something that focused on traditional values...just let me say that a lot has changed. Great atmosphere but young blackbelts and it looked to me like a few 12 yr old black belts were roaming around, teaching lower level. The instructor was great But you could tell it was geared towards kids. A few of the things they did, and didn't do, were different than what I had learned. I didn't see any two man promise fights within the white belts training curriculum. Seen them sparring, fully padded, which isn't bad, it just something we never used.

 

[Blindside]

Replace martial arts with something else. A foreign language, an instrument, or mathematics. How good would you expect a child to be at piano? I wouldn't expect concert capability.

In speaking with gymnastics coaches, the young women who aspire to get to college scholarship level in gymnastics are on the floor roughly 20 hours per week. Olympics is something like 40. So if you have a kid in a "martial arts" 15 hours per week, I would expect some pretty good things. Watching even the average 15 year old do gymnastics at a local club who has just 5 years of 20 hours per week training is impressive. You almost never see anything comparable coming out of these martial arts after school programs.

 

[mograph]

... the young women who aspire to get to college scholarship level in gymnastics are on the floor roughly 20 hours per week.

That kind of focus and dedication is key, isn't it?

 

[Dirty Dog]

In speaking with gymnastics coaches, the young women who aspire to get to college scholarship level in gymnastics are on the floor roughly 20 hours per week. Olympics is something like 40. So if you have a kid in a "martial arts" 15 hours per week, I would expect some pretty good things. Watching even the average 15 year old do gymnastics at a local club who has just 5 years of 20 hours per week training is impressive. You almost never see anything comparable coming out of these martial arts after school programs.

I suspect that one major difference here is that you're talking about kids who have a passion, a devotion, and already proven gift for gymnastics. Other people are talking about kids whose parents drop them off for baby sitting.

 

[Tez3]

In speaking with gymnastics coaches, the young women who aspire to get to college scholarship level in gymnastics are on the floor roughly 20 hours per week. Olympics is something like 40. So if you have a kid in a "martial arts" 15 hours per week, I would expect some pretty good things. Watching even the average 15 year old do gymnastics at a local club who has just 5 years of 20 hours per week training is impressive. You almost never see anything comparable coming out of these martial arts after school programs.

Here getting to university ( college is something different here) means doing well academically, being good at sport doesn't get you a place as we don't have scholarships to uni.

 

[lklawson]

In speaking with gymnastics coaches, the young women who aspire to get to college scholarship level in gymnastics are on the floor roughly 20 hours per week. Olympics is something like 40. So if you have a kid in a "martial arts" 15 hours per week, I would expect some pretty good things. Watching even the average 15 year old do gymnastics at a local club who has just 5 years of 20 hours per week training is impressive.

And they're doing so in a class with 30 other kids and part of that 20 hours-a-week gymnastics practice is actually doing homework, not gymnastics?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tez3]

This is why martial arts schools don't do childcare here. Information for out of school clubs covering Ofsted regulation and inspection | Out of School Alliance

 

[oaktree]

Here getting to university ( college is something different here) means doing well academically, being good at sport doesn't get you a place as we don't have scholarships to uni.

Do university get most of their funds from government and or private donations?
In America sport endorsement deals and merchandise does give colleges a lot of money. Interesting to hear from the other side of the pond

 

[WaterGal]

Replace martial arts with something else. A foreign language, an instrument, or mathematics. How good would you expect a child to be at piano? I wouldn't expect concert capability.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

If a child spent 5-10 hours a week practicing the piano and getting decent instruction, I would actually expect them to know how to play the piano reasonably well after a few years. I wouldn't expect them to be playing at Carnegie Hall, but they should be able to play more than basic primers.

But I guess "decent instruction" is part of the key, there. If a place doesn't really care about that, then aftercare is just babysitting. I feel like there has got to be some way to use the aftercare model to produce really top-notch athletes and martial artists - I just haven't seen anyone do that. Maybe because really working the kids hard means some of them will quit and the school will lose that sweet sweet aftercare money.

 

[Tez3]

Do university get most of their funds from government and or private donations?
In America sport endorsement deals and merchandise does give colleges a lot of money. Interesting to hear from the other side of the pond

They are state funded but students have to pay for tuition and accommodation which they can get loans for. There are scholarships/bursaries available from educational trusts, charities and some universities that have endowments from rich past students (think Oxford and Cambridge) but these are always for academic studies or for taking doctorates etc. never sports. Grants come from the EU and some times big companies but they are for research projects relevant to that business. Foreign students are a big source of revenue for many universities as well notably students from China at the moment. Money over and above the income from the state is needed as the present government thinks only the rich should be able to attend university.

 

[mograph]

If a child spent 5-10 hours a week practicing the piano and getting decent instruction, I would actually expect them to know how to play the piano reasonably well after a few years.

If we're talking about one-on-one instruction.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If a child spent 5-10 hours a week practicing the piano and getting decent instruction, I would actually expect them to know how to play the piano reasonably well after a few years. I wouldn't expect them to be playing at Carnegie Hall, but they should be able to play more than basic primers.

The first three results from a YouTube search for "middle school band concert" which would be kids with group instruction on their instruments for probably 5 hours a week, plus whatever practice they do at home, for at least a couple of years. Some individuals would be less, some more, I am sure.

Not Carnegie Hall, but not much above "basic primers" either. I'd say, in terms of our school, these performances are at about an 8th or 7th geup level, and I'm sure that some individuals might be at the 6th geup level, with maybe a couple individuals out of those groups at the 5th geup level.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Thank you and hello too you. I figured that I was being taken through a ringer. But, I didn't mind. It let me know that this forum is serious...people who love the arts tend to be protective of what they have done, do and believe. I rather enjoyed it.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, it happens here a lot. Within a week, maybe two, they'll have forgotten all about it.

 

[Tez3]

Unfortunately, or fortunately, it happens here a lot. Within a week, maybe two, they'll have forgotten all about it.

It depends on what is posted up though, if first posts are aggressive/insulting/style bashing etc etc then no, the reception probably won't be what an OP wishes for. If they introduce themselves on the 'new to here' thread, say hi and a little of what they do and why they are here then they will get a warm welcome. First impressions matter despite what anyone may say.

 

[lklawson]

If a child spent 5-10 hours a week practicing the piano and getting decent instruction, I would actually expect them to know how to play the piano reasonably well after a few years.

The original time frame suggested was one year.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It depends on what is posted up though, if first posts are aggressive/insulting/style bashing etc etc then no, the reception probably won't be what an OP wishes for. If they introduce themselves on the 'new to here' thread, say hi and a little of what they do and why they are here then they will get a warm welcome. First impressions matter despite what anyone may say.

Ordinarily I agree with you when you choose to bash/interrogate something. However, while Michael was direct with his questioning, nothing that he has said outside of reacting to other people's attitudes were aggressive or insulting in and of itself. Now, some of the statements he reacted to weren't actually aggressive towards him, it's how he perceived it.
I agree about the first impressions though, considering how some people who are friendly get welcomed with open arms, others are 'put through the ringer' and others are ignored or end up leaving because of the (normally deserved) reception.

 

[Tez3]

Ordinarily I agree with you when you choose to bash/interrogate something. However, while Michael was direct with his questioning, nothing that he has said outside of reacting to other people's attitudes were aggressive or insulting in and of itself. Now, some of the statements he reacted to weren't actually aggressive towards him, it's how he perceived it.
I agree about the first impressions though, considering how some people who are friendly get welcomed with open arms, others are 'put through the ringer' and others are ignored or end up leaving because of the (normally deserved) reception.

Did you read his first thread about fights?
Actual Fight