Round kick

rabbit

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I was wonder how come with my lead leg round kick i can only get it to waist level and when i do a back leg round kick i can get it to head level. With the back leg round kick I have more momentum and I can kick higher which probably means I have the range of motion to kick that high but when i do it with the lead leg I have a hard time kicking high. I am trying to get my lead leg round kick to head or chest level.

Also reverse hook kick/ round kick combo I can only get it waist high and my technique is horrible. I want to improve technique and get the kick higher. Any input would be nice. Thanks
 

terryl965

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You need to practise on what is weak, so more kicks for those that need the help.
 
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rabbit

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No matter how hard I try i just can't get my leg up there. Is that muscle control, strength, or/and flexibility?

Obviously if i can get my leg into up there with a back leg round kick and not with the front leg there must be something going on besides just "flexibility" issues or technique.

I hope i explained what i am trying to say. Thanks.
 

Twin Fist

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90% of high, fast kicks is strength, not flexibility

Kieth Vitali, who was famous for head kicks back in the late 70's early 80's could never do a full split.

but he worked out his legs. low weight, HIGH reps
 

terryl965

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Like Twin Fist has said it is leg strength, so you need to do more wieght traing on those legs. I am surprise you are unable to get it up without turning the hip over. Keep trying and lets hope in time it will come.
 
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rabbit

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Thank you so much. I am very excited. I want to learn how to do that darn kick.
 

exile

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Well said, all!

I think that rabbit actually nailed part of the answer himself in one of his posts in this thread. A good deal of really high kicking is ballistic momentum. The faster you have that mass going, the more it's going to move upward just on the basis of its own sheer speed. And with a front roundhouse, since you have way less time before you contact the target, the final velocity is going to be less. You get less torque into the front leg kick, I think, because you don't have both the rotating chambered leg and the twisting hip working in tandem; in other words, you don't have nearly as much 'windup' as you do when the kicking leg has had a lot more time to get moving, as in the rear leg turning kick. So your final kicking speed in the front turning kick is not going to be helping you nearly as much as it with the rear leg turning kick.

It'll get better as you work on it, but I'd predict that there's always going to be a bit of a discrepancy between the two...
 

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The only real way to get better is to practice... and then practice... and then practice some more.

I do agree with exile that momentum plays a part in kick height, especially for those of us who aren't as limber as we used to be (me, for example! :)).

If you are trying for height, then give yourself incentives... kicking over chair backs, for example; the first time you kick a metal folding chair, height will quickly come - because it really hurts to kick a metal chair!

If you are trying to improve your technique, work on the kick slowly, holding onto something (that same metal folding chair makes a great support), so that you can focus on the technique without worrying about your balance. If you are having problems, doing the kick properly is much more important that doing it high; height will come after the kick is technically correct, but if you work on height first, then the technical details will still be wrong.
 

FieldDiscipline

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If you are trying for height, then give yourself incentives... kicking over chair backs, for example; the first time you kick a metal folding chair, height will quickly come - because it really hurts to kick a metal chair!

I'll second that, its a favourite of mine.
 

K31

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90% of high, fast kicks is strength, not flexibility

Kieth Vitali, who was famous for head kicks back in the late 70's early 80's could never do a full split.

but he worked out his legs. low weight, HIGH reps

I find the logic of this interesting because when I think of strength gains, I think of low reps and heavy weights.

What was his program like: reps, sets and weights? Is a book that describes this?

rabbit, is your combo actually reverse hook kick then, round kick? That seems backwards.
 

newGuy12

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I find the logic of this interesting because when I think of strength gains, I think of low reps and heavy weights.

He doesn't even need weights now. He can do the kick in slow motion and gain strength that way. He just needs to develop the abductor muscles in his legs.

rabbit, is your combo actually reverse hook kick then, round kick? That seems backwards.
Right -- both ways work, BUT -- you do a roundhouse kick, then you do another roundhouse kick. These are typical kicks, used a lot. The opponent then may think, "He prefers to do the right leg round house kick."

Then, when you do the roundhouse kick again -- No, you just chamber, and then kick to the head with the hook kick! Not the spinning hook kick, the hook kick.

Hah! There you can have a point!

Rabbit, you do as Kacey has said, you will see a better round house kick! It will be your prize for working at it!!!
 

jim777

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Right -- both ways work, BUT -- you do a roundhouse kick, then you do another roundhouse kick. These are typical kicks, used a lot. The opponent then may think, "He prefers to do the right leg round house kick."

Then, when you do the roundhouse kick again -- No, you just chamber, and then kick to the head with the hook kick! Not the spinning hook kick, the hook kick.

A hook kick is with the lead leg, no? I believe we call this hook, the one from the back leg with a roundhouse type chamber, a pivoting hook kick.
 

newGuy12

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A hook kick is with the lead leg, no? I believe we call this hook, the one from the back leg with a roundhouse type chamber, a pivoting hook kick.

I cannot answer this. I do not know. I call them both a "hook kick". One is from the back leg, one is from the front leg. I am not aware of what they are called other than this.

I am talking about the feint here -- back leg does round house kick, and then again, -- so that the partner anticipates this. Then, you feint the roundhouse -- what you REALLY do is the hook kick! You can skip in as well. This is a favourite of mine. That's why I mention it. Hook kicks can be VERY FAST!
 
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rabbit

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You turn do a reverse hook kick. Once you recamber you just execute a round kick without the leg hitting the ground.

You cant really do it fast becuase if you over commit to the reverse hook kick it is a lot hard to do the round kick in the opposite direction.

You can use it sparring and we do it in 2nd degree form (ATA). When sparring you try to get your partner to think you are just doing a hook kick and when he comes rushing in you come back in the opposite direction and kick him with a round kick.
 

Twin Fist

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K31,
Heavy weights with low reps builds THICK muscle mass. The problem with that is it is less flexible.

For high fast ficks, you want lean muscle mass. Ergo, low weights (or none) with many, many reps.

Vitali never wrote a book about it that I know of, but he did do a series of articles in the (now defunct) old Karate Illustrated.


I find the logic of this interesting because when I think of strength gains, I think of low reps and heavy weights.

What was his program like: reps, sets and weights? Is a book that describes this?

rabbit, is your combo actually reverse hook kick then, round kick? That seems backwards.
 

searcher

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I will ask a question here: Is the technique "clean" when you throw a lead leg kick? My reason for asking is that most often the chamber is totally overlooked when people throw lead leg techniques. Video yourself andmake sure it is correct, then start working on the strength and flexibility aspect of the kick.

Slow side leg raises, doubling up on the kick with the same leg, perform two levels witht eh same leg(even if it is ankle and kneee high) and do some dynamic leg stretches before working out. You might also do some "assisted" high kick training. Put your hand on a bench or chair for balance and then perform the lead leg kick. By doing this you are training some muscle memory and letting your mind get used to throwing the kick higher. It works quite well. Often times your mind will send signals to your muscles telling them to tighten up, called muscular inhibition. The way to make it stop is by tricking the propireceptors into releasing muscular control.
 

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One exercise we do for this problem is to do combination low-high round kicks without touching the ground (say, 20 each leg to start.)

Do them as fast as you can, but be sure to chamber between each kick. You'll probably do best to hold on to something for a while, until you can build up strength.

You can also do combination round/hook kicks as well. (Varying the height.)

Combinations we do: Low/High, High/Low (harder) and triple kicks with varying heights.

Another exercise is to hold on to the wall, chamber for your kick, kick out and hold it for a count of 10 (to start), then raise your leg as high as you can to "bounce" it 10 times (not letting your foot drop below where you had it originally), then chamber your kick as high as you can, and bounce it up another 10 times. Repeat for the kicks you want to get higher.
 

exile

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I will ask a question here: Is the technique "clean" when you throw a lead leg kick? My reason for asking is that most often the chamber is totally overlooked when people throw lead leg techniques. Video yourself andmake sure it is correct, then start working on the strength and flexibility aspect of the kick.

My students don't omit the chamber, because I don't let them. Front or back leg, they don't get to kick until they chamber, and they have to hold the chamber for a clearly perceptible length of time before the strike. A lot of this is the instructor's responsibility: you have to grind it into them that they have to chamber and stay in balance during the chamber.

Shesulsa a while back had some good suggestions about this point, the gist of which was, don't feel sorry for them&#8212;make them hold the chamber, bent kicking leg parallel to the floor&#8212;for half a minute or more, if need be, till they can do it. After that's become second nature, only then are they allowed to do the strike in a continuous motion, with the rotating chambered leg powered by the hip, and the snapping strike from the knee, linked smoothly together. They don't get to do that till they can maintain the chamber for a serious length of time. Balance and strength have to work together to make that work. And most students, in my experience, do not develop either without serious, uncomfortable drills to that effect.
 

KELLYG

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I have the same problem. I came to realize that my lead leg round house kick was a lot lower than the rear leg. Some of my problem was that with the rear leg round house kick I was accidentally cheating by not rotating my hip completely over and in line with the rest of my body. The nature of the lead leg is you are starting the kick in the proper position ie with every thing lined up. Then how high you are chambering the lead leg becomes very important. By pointing your knee up toward the target helps a great deal. How is your flexibly?? If you are doing partner stretching for a side kick and your foot only comes to waist level then flexibility could be a concern. If it comes a lot higher then maybe modifying the chamber would help. For me it was a combination of both.
 

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