Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

MJS

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25-35 years ago, we mostly didn't wear anything for protection in kyokushin classes, and contact was pretty hard-especially when compared to everyone else. I think the headgear is something of an insurance requirement for this kind of sparring in some places, now, though.....

Yes, thats what my inst. said, regarding the protective gear. And yes, the contact is certainly an eye opener. :D


Interestingly, in 38 years I've seen a variety of minor injuries over the years-broken toes, fingers, noses and the like-I never saw a broken leg or arm, or a death from a full-power kick to the thigh.

Exactly! Same here.

Guess they were doing it wrong.....:lfao:

Probably. LOL!
 

seasoned

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We called it bloody Thursday. 40 years ago gear was made fun of. My Sensei use to say block or get hit, and if you get hit it was your fault for not blocking. Crazy, but, there was never any question if a technique got in or not, plus, you NEVER took a punch to get one in, NEVER. Those were weird times, but, camaraderie was high and respect was given when due, because "pay back was a" you know what.


Nothing wrong with now a days, just different, more civilized. :)
 

Bill Mattocks

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Hey, I used to slam-dance at the Whisky-a-Go-Go in the early 80's to punk bands. Broken noses, fingers and black eyes meant you had a good time.
 

Cyriacus

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Then why the hell are you training? Go take up knitting if you're afraid of contact. I know people who have fought bareknuckle, and they're still alive to talk about it.
Ill just prove this to be true, since its clearly necessary.

People dont just spontaneously die when You hit them. The rare instances of one strike killing is anomalous. Very few things will just outright kill someone.
 
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K-man

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Ill just prove this to be true, since its clearly necessary.

People dont just spontaneously die when You hit them. The rare instances of one strike killing is anomalous. Very few things will just outright kill someone.
But these guys couldn't do the fancy kick to escape when their legs were grabbed. :p
 
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elder999

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Bill Mattocks said:
Hey, I used to slam-dance at the Whisky-a-Go-Go in the early 80's to punk bands. Broken noses, fingers and black eyes meant you had a good time.

I'd mention CBGB's, but I'm better off just saying that I used to have sex regularly with Gayle Somers, and that broke[ noses, fingers and black eyes meant I had a really goood time!
 

Tez3

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Ill just prove this to be true, since its clearly necessary.

People dont just spontaneously die when You hit them. The rare instances of one strike killing is anomalous. Very few things will just outright kill someone.

The couple of reported deaths I've seen when someone has hit them is entirely due to the fact that they were hit, fell and bashed their heads on something very hard such as paving stones, kerbs, steps etc, this caused the deaths not being hit once by a punch. I've seen hundreds of MMA fights, I've only seen a very few broken bones. A couple were broken hands, caused by hitting the canvas once in frustration after being beaten and one because the person about to be hit moved. A broken arm because the guy was defending a figure four arm bar by holding on to his shorts, his hand slipped off, his arm went the wrong way and snapped. One broken leg I saw ( I think it's on You Tube) was where both guys kicked at the same time and one guys bone snapped, that was combined force of both kicks. I've seen TKOs where a fighter was unable to continue because of a 'dead leg' after repeated kicks, this wasn't bone damage however. A friend of mine broke her Japanese opponent's ankle ( also on You Tube) while grappling, that wasn't intentionally and again wasn't a kick. I've seen another broken ankle when a guy who had just won his fight climbed to the top rope and leapt into the air in a sort of victory salute type thing, landed badly and his ankle went! No broken arms from kicks and no single punches to the head killing anyone.
 
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elder999

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Twin Fist said:
but the 22 year old guy says it, it MUST be true.....clearly we are just not that good

I don't think he'll be coming back, but, in case he does, here's a little kyokushin kumite:






The first time I got a good, solid shin kick n the thigh, I was probably 15 years old. Hurt like hell-like to make me sick to my stomach-but I kept fighting.

I didn't die. :lfao:
 
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Tez3

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but the 22 year old guy says it, it MUST be true.....clearly we are just not that good


This thread as well as the others reminded me of something and I couldn't put my finger on it until I saw an ad on the television for the UK version of The Apprentice. A whole load of 20 somethings all coming up with phrases trying to convince us they are the best thing since sliced bread and then showing us in subsequent weeks they don't have an ounce of nous between them.

As someone who loves my mother tongue I have to say the mangling of it by Zenjael is doing my head in! A personal observation of course but I'm getting wrinkles wincing at the English used. The very first line on the OP made me go ouch with 'normative'. It's being used in the wrong context, it's generic meaning (without getting too involved *) 'the ideal, the best way' it doesn't mean the usual way which is what was meant in that sentence, using 'normal' would have been correct. And therein lies the problem I think, the writing style is indictative of someone who wants to appear 'learned' and erudite, someone with great knowledge and experience but who actually misses the point by using words in the wrong context, clumsy phrasing and a pompous writing style. I would suggest that his martial arts are the same, there is a need to impress and to appear knowledgable that just isn't coming off. Good writers don't use words to impress they use words to communicate their ideas. Saying things plainly and not using phrases as grand flourishes would have got this thread off to a better start and less misunderstandings.

*http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/normative
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normative
 

MJS

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Ahhh....watching this clip is refreshing. I'm looking forward to class tonight! :D 3:19 of some good ol' full contact, hard sparring! And while I'm sure those guys will be sore, I'm sure none of them died.
 

Bill Mattocks

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I don't think he'll be coming back, but, in case he does, here's a little kyokushin kumite:

The first time I got a good, solid shin kick n the thigh, I was probably 15 years old. Hurt like hell-like to make me sick to my stomach-but I kept fighting.

I didn't die. :lfao:

Wow. Yeah, that's the real deal, for sure. Those are some brave dudes in there, full credit and respect due.

That's more full-contact than I ever want to go; I'm too old to be having a concussion; I have to go to work in the morning! But I really have a lot of respect for them.

But whether it's full contact without pads or point sparring, it's about getting in there, testing your tech under pressure and with unfamiliar partners, being willing to hit and be hit, seeing where your limits are and what works and does not work for you personally. It's where you learn simple things like "my roundhouse kick is too slow, my opponents keep blocking it," and "I can jam these kicks at will, I think that's one of my strengths!" It's where you learn if moving inside or outside works better for you. With time (and it's just starting to happen for me) you even learn how to draw your opponent to do something you want them to do so you can take them with a tech you are good at. It's also exhilarating, at least for me. I've said before that there is a different kind of respect you gain for someone you've looked at over the top of your gloves as you head into face him with bad intent, and a mutual recognition that both of you are the real deal, no joke, no BS. Everybody talks a good fight; when the call comes to hajime, some hack it and some don't.
 

jks9199

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The couple of reported deaths I've seen when someone has hit them is entirely due to the fact that they were hit, fell and bashed their heads on something very hard such as paving stones, kerbs, steps etc, this caused the deaths not being hit once by a punch. I've seen hundreds of MMA fights, I've only seen a very few broken bones. A couple were broken hands, caused by hitting the canvas once in frustration after being beaten and one because the person about to be hit moved. A broken arm because the guy was defending a figure four arm bar by holding on to his shorts, his hand slipped off, his arm went the wrong way and snapped. One broken leg I saw ( I think it's on You Tube) was where both guys kicked at the same time and one guys bone snapped, that was combined force of both kicks. I've seen TKOs where a fighter was unable to continue because of a 'dead leg' after repeated kicks, this wasn't bone damage however. A friend of mine broke her Japanese opponent's ankle ( also on You Tube) while grappling, that wasn't intentionally and again wasn't a kick. I've seen another broken ankle when a guy who had just won his fight climbed to the top rope and leapt into the air in a sort of victory salute type thing, landed badly and his ankle went! No broken arms from kicks and no single punches to the head killing anyone.

Once in a while, you'll get a shot to the chest that kills someone. It's all but impossible to do on purpose, since it involves hitting the chest at just the right instant in the heart rhythm to cause an arrhythmia. We see a couple kids killed this way each year playing baseball, too. Obviously, if you manage to do sufficient trauma to the skull or chest, you can kill someone. But most of the methods I've seen require a lot to go right to put the person down immediately...

As to broken bones on kicks... I have seen hands and fingers broken in blocking attempts. (I'm not including things like the classic boxer's fracture in the puncher's hand since that's kind of opposite the intent.)
 

frank raud

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As to broken bones on kicks... I have seen hands and fingers broken in blocking attempts. (I'm not including things like the classic boxer's fracture in the puncher's hand since that's kind of opposite the intent.)

Talk to an ER nurse or doctor. Lots of broken bones from falling, doubt they see many breaks from kicks, and that would include from football, soccer and all other sports.
 

jks9199

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Talk to an ER nurse or doctor. Lots of broken bones from falling, doubt they see many breaks from kicks, and that would include from football, soccer and all other sports.
That's the point I was trying to get to, though it fell astray somewhere.

As easy as the sometimes seem, bones are hard to break on purpose. Limbs move on impact, and I always have wondered where they came up with claims that "this board/coconut/tile/whatever breaks with the same resistance as a bone/skull/chest."
 

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Talk to an ER nurse or doctor. Lots of broken bones from falling, doubt they see many breaks from kicks, and that would include from football, soccer and all other sports.

You paged?

Absolutely correct. Bones absorb impact in specific directions. At other angles, they're really quite fragile. You could certainly get a nasty tib/fib fracture if you both kick and clash shins. You could also do it by kicking full force against a leg that was supporting the other persons weight.

Shockingly (sarcasm alert!), neither of these things happens very often. Kick at your opponents supporting leg and they'll shift their weight off it, or the force of your kick will turn into a sweep. Greatest chance of injury from this? Falling badly, injuring your arm.
When you kick something, it moves away from your kick. That's physics. And when you kick a person, they also react to minimize the impact. That's reflex. If breaking bones were as easy as Hollydrool would have us believe, orthopedics would be a much much larger field.
 

Dirty Dog

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That's the point I was trying to get to, though it fell astray somewhere.

As easy as the sometimes seem, bones are hard to break on purpose. Limbs move on impact, and I always have wondered where they came up with claims that "this board/coconut/tile/whatever breaks with the same resistance as a bone/skull/chest."

There is some validity to that claim, but there is a major difference. Nobody is laying their arm/leg/skull across some bricks or on an anvil before getting hit.

Breaking boards and such is fun. It's also a good way to test your conditioning. It's also a good way to domonstrate your ability to generate and deliver powerful strikes. It's certainly not a measure of fighting ability.
 

Chris Parker

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Well, after having some internet issues for the last few days, this is a lovely thing to come back to...

Without going through everything I've seen here (which would be a gigantic post, even by my standards...), there's a few things to cover, either because I said I would, or because it's just annoying me.

First, Alex, when I asked what "acujutsu" was, you said it was pressure points as used in acupuncture, but as a martial art, and didn't know a better term. Frankly, kid, that just shows that you have no clue, and have never really learnt a thing about the subject. "Acu", from "acupressure/acupuncture", is a Western (English) term, not an Asian one (in fact, acupuncture in Chinese is zhen jiu), so really shouldn't be combined with a Japanese suffix (jutsu, meaning "practical art")... you might as well say you train in "hitjutsu", or "kickjutsu". As to the idea/concept of striking/fighting with the use of pressure points, that's commonly referred to as Kyushojutsu, although that can have other meanings, and other terms can be used (obviously such terms aren't used outside of Japanese arts... but as you used a Japanese suffix, that's probably your best fit. Other than that, there's Dim Mak that's pretty commonly known as well). Really, though, it's just an approach to targeting, in the end (there are different approaches, but commonly, it's just a sense of where to hit).

Next, with the idea of killing with a single hit to the thigh or upper arm, well, I'm going to say yes, it is possible. Very possible. Catch is, though, it's not really possible the way it's been described. The only way you can do it is with a knife, or a machete, or a gunshot... anything that'll let you attack the femoral or brachial arteries (respectively), really. But I really don't think that's what you meant, so try to avoid using this as basis for your delusional ideas on martial arts effectiveness. You're really way off in huge ways.

In the other thread you talk about breaking an arm with a kick, again, yeah, it's possible. Catch is, though, it requires quite a specific set up in the first place. The reason it can't really be done the way you're suggesting (against an arm held out from the body, whether as a punch/strike, holding a weapon, or some other similar way) is that there is no bracing at the end of the arm, so once you contact it, you push it away. In order to break an arm with a kick, you need to brace both ends so that it can't move very far, and have space under the section of the arm that you're kicking. Get someone on the ground, have their wrist up on the curb on the side of the street and stomp down, you could potentially break it (well, I say "you", but I'm speaking of the generic "you" here... from watching your video, as well as your older sparring ones, your knife one, and more, I doubt that you could do much more than a bruise....). But your way? Not likely, son.

Finally, language... look, I love words. I love the feel of them, the taste of them, the way they can be used to shape constructs and concepts, the way they can show the way a mind works, and the way they can express emotions and logic all at the same time. That said, I do try to limit myself to words that I know the meaning and usage of. You don't. You commonly misuse many terms, two of the biggest being your constant misuse of the word "oft" when the proper usage would be "often", as well as your incredibly insistent misuse of "opine" when you mean "opinion". If you wish to use such words, you need to look to the actual grammar that matches it, or, probably safer so you're understood properly, just use the right word.

Right, that should do for now.
 

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