TKD blah blah blah Martial art Blah blah blah

[terryl965]

Well I have notice alot of threads lately talking about sport vs. real life and so on. Let me add a few things to some of these so call name sayers, like it or not I would guess to say 75%-90% of all martial arts are a recreational get in shape or sport endevour for people. Real people do not see a martial art as a weapon like years ago, seriously when was the last time any of you was in a real life or death stitiaution? I know for me it has been going on twenty or more years ago. I enjoy physical contact so TKD allows me to get that like boxing or ground work. I also love the tenets and try to live by them as close to it as I can mainly because we live in a society that believe it or not hinders its.

This goes out to alot of you and believe me you know who you are, please give me your last altication and why you let yourself lose control of it? Also please tell me the laws in your state or country that say you can beat the living crap out of someone when you get piss at them? Also tell me what it is you are really teaching to these so called modern day warrriors?

I mean come on most of you I can tell have never ever been in a physical confitation what so ever. Some of you are like me a few when you was a teenager and maybe a few more in your early adult hood, but for the most part today is not abut real life application and the stand toe to toe and fight like a man. It is about being smarter and wiser and not putting yourself into the wrong area's and being able to claimly and rationally get yourself out with little physical voilence.

I dare any one of you to sit here and type back that you have been in hundreds of physical fights over your lifetime. Now if you want to include matches from sparring than yes but actual physical street matches please. Let get back to reality and admit that the majority of people will go though there life without one single confitation but goes out and become a weekend warrior. You know the type they play war games with paintball guns and have reinactments of civil wars and so forth and believe me it is fun but also remember those that enjoy the sport side to any martial art out there whether it is TKD, MMA or Karate, swords or any weapons for that matter.

I would hope this thread would get alot of attention from all those die hard S.D. fan's that believe the only good that can ever come from a MA is strickly violence.

 

[WC_lun]

Wow, a lot of assumptions and attitude on your part here. I'll answer you, though. I've been in two serious altercations in tha last 25 years that did not involve a job I was working. Both happened because I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings at the time and got suprised. Both scared the hell out of me even though I was lucky enough to walk away. Both also opened my eyes as to the myth and truth of some of the martial arts I had been studying.

There is nothing wrong at all with sport arts. In fact, they have a lot going for them. There is a difference between self-defense and sport though. If you don't understand the difference, it can lead you into a bunch of trouble.

I myself train and I teach others in self-defense, not sport. I don't do this so people can be badasses or beat up people because they are pissed. In fact, anyone trains with us knows this is something only an idiot would do. I train them this way because I know what it is like to live in a nieborhood where violence is always a possibility. I know that it only takes one act of violence to change a person's life forever, so I train people to avoid that situation and if violence comes to them to hopefully survive it. I also train them to recognize the difference between the fantasy of martial arts and the ugly truths of fighting.

What you don't seem to understand is training for self-defense is about violence, but not necessarily dishing it out. It is about recognizing it before it happens, dealing with it if it happens, and living with the repurcussions of it happening. It is about knowing the difference between what looks cool and what is effective. It is about having respect for everyone you meet, if only because of the knowledge of what a human being can do. It is about having compassion for others, so you don't do the idiotic actions that get others into situations they can't get out of.

People who bash sporting arts are wrong in doing so. They serve a purpose and are excellent at giving people things that they need or desire. However, bashing people who are more self-defense orientated is equally as wrong. Just because it isn't the reason you study, doesn't mean it isn't valid.

 

[Manny]

Well.... nice post and nice first reply, myself only engaged once in a bar fight, in that fight thanks God everything went right and only a takle was need it, I already have wrote about that night here.

Terry... yes... you have some good points in your post, I started in TKD because I wanted to know how to defend myself with sucess, as a child I was bullied in the block I lived, the other children always saw me as the little mom's boy and for that sake my dad enroled me in JUDO at the age of 8 or 9 (don't recall).

When I moved to another neighborhood (I was 11) I told to my self that nobody will bullied me again, I was growing fast and become the taller kid on the block, I've never bullied anybody but the times the other kids wanted to fight me they found me.

Yes... in high school I was beat a couple of times and this makes me wanting to learn how to deal with the high school punks so I got inside TKD.

So the main reason to got inside TKD was to beat the crap out of the person who wanted to mess with me without any reason.

As you may see I don't got inside TKD to become a regional or state champion, in fact I don't like to fight, I would rather avoid it.

Well.... now we can chat about the TKD as a way of life. Yes TKD is a very nice full contact sport and a lovely poomsae sport these days, so a tkdoing benefits from a good health, a nice body, a nice set of rules, tenets,etc,etc.

I love TKD... not only the self defense thing but all the things TKD are and represent and yes it is good to have sucha WTF or ITF programs where the students and practciones sparr because sparring develops confidence.

However tkd has left behind and at last the self defense aproach, I think the same time and effort that is invested in sparring and poomsae must be in Ho Shi Sool too, to get a well rounded people.

Since the invetion of JUDO all the new martial arts evolved from jutsu to do, for example jujutsu went to judo a more civilized and sport version of jujutsu, karate-jutsu evolved in karate do and so on.

Judo evolved in an olimpic sport, Karate for example the Shotokan evolved in a very sporty martial art, tkd is no diferent, instead to get inside a ring to kill to demostrate who is the best, tkd has technikes that are very suitable to get inside the mat and show who is the best beetwen to people using a set of rules that ensures no death or maim for example. This my friend Terry is wonderful, however we don't have to forget the roots of the martial art and practice and practiced and practiced self defense trying to emulate the worst scenarios.

Thank you Terry for be such a great guy, I really apreciate you and I can say you are a truly pal/budy of mine.

Manny

 

[Xue Sheng]

Terry you seem frustrated…. Been there done that myself...easy to do on MT actually.

Well I have notice alot of threads lately talking about sport vs. real life and so on. Let me add a few things to some of these so call name sayers, like it or not I would guess to say 75%-90% of all martial arts are a recreational get in shape or sport endevour for people. Real people do not see a martial art as a weapon like years ago, seriously when was the last time any of you was in a real life or death stitiaution? I know for me it has been going on twenty or more years ago. I enjoy physical contact so TKD allows me to get that like boxing or ground work. I also love the tenets and try to live by them as close to it as I can mainly because we live in a society that believe it or not hinders its.

Life and death… not sure if it was life or death but the worst was about 30 years ago and I still regret it because it was avoidable.

As for the rest…we pretty much agree. Many do not train like we use to, it hurts too much

I dare any one of you to sit here and type back that you have been in hundreds of physical fights over your lifetime. Now if you want to include matches from sparring than yes but actual physical street matches please. Let get back to reality and admit that the majority of people will go though there life without one single confitation but goes out and become a weekend warrior. You know the type they play war games with paintball guns and have reinactments of civil wars and so forth and believe me it is fun but also remember those that enjoy the sport side to any martial art out there whether it is TKD, MMA or Karate, swords or any weapons for that matter.

I would hope this thread would get alot of attention from all those die hard S.D. fan's that believe the only good that can ever come from a MA is strickly violence.

I had a job once in a hospital and I was security and they had and Emergency room, a Mental Health and a Detox ward… I don’t know how many altercations I had, I did not count them, but it was a lot and frankly I do not want to go back to that dealing with drunks, drug addicts, bleeding heroin users and the mentally unstable was not fun and that was 15 years ago

Now to the whole Sport vs. non-sport thing

I have said these before on the topic of Sport vs. Non-sport

Sport you train to fight and are fairly certain you will see the same guy again later

Non-sport you train not to fight but if you do you don’t ever want to see that guy again

And a both, I don’t care what anyone else deal with violence if you don’t think so you might want to read the definition

Violence

–noun
1. Swift and intense force: the violence of a storm.
2. Rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment: to die by violence.
3. An unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights or laws: to take over a government by violence

Now my tkd days a long since behind me but my Sanda days are not so I will use Sanda

Cung Le trains sports Sanda

My Sifu was non-sport Sanda, what they teach the police/Military in China

Now which one would I choose to fight with….

Neither, I am not stupid and my medical insurance does not cover stupidity. Both would kick my butt in or out of a ring and I am betting I can’t out run either of them either so I do not think I will go that road.

My Sanda sifu looks at sports Sanda and says only one thing, he knows nothing about it because he does not train it… but he does like watching a good Sanda match from time to time. What I find really interesting about my Sanda sifu is I have never heard his say anything bad about any other style of martial art… he has commented on the skill of individual martial artists… but he has never said anything negative about another style.

Sport, non-sport…both can hurt you.. now can we all get off our high horse and shut up and train because IMO the whole thing is just trying to make ourselves look better by making someone else look worse.

 

[terryl965]

To WC Lun I am making assumption based on certain people post, I believe I have that right. I agree SD is necessary but evrybody will not ever encounter a stituation where they will need it. Most people take a MA to get physically fit more so than self defense. I also believe sport is god for martial sport notice not martial arts, the two needs to be be seperated.

Manny I concur that most people had the differences and came to blows when they where younger. I know alot of my parents take it to have more confidence because of some altication whem they where younger.

Xue you are and will be one of my favorite poster just becuase you have always explain and are so dam great at it.

Thanks to all of you who have replied so far.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The blessing of the TKD section is that it is the most active. The curse is that most of the activity is arguments over sport vs. art.

Daniel

 

[KELLYG]

Yes, like you posted I have never gotten into a physical altercation with anyone. I have however on at least 2 occasions was able to verbally de-escalate situations that could have come to blows. I thank that Martial Arts training gave me the confidence to do this.

I train mostly in the Art side of Taekwando vs the Sport side. Fortunately our school offers both.

The only thing that I can hope for in my training is surprise. Managing to do something to my opponent or attacker that will either make him think twice, or distract him long enough to get away. Then all of the physical training will come in handy.

Good post.

 

[Thesemindz]

Sport, non-sport…both can hurt you.. now can we all get off our high horse and shut up and train because IMO the whole thing is just trying to make ourselves look better by making someone else look worse.

This.


-Rob

 

[ATACX GYM]

I'm busy right now,but I'm definitely coming back to this.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Good thread terry. I for one am glad that i have to read constantly about sport vs art. I have been to forums where everybody agrees on everything and quite frankly it put me to sleep. The discussion comes up a lot because people are passionate about the subject, which for me personally is a good thing. I am not too worried about my or anybody elses last altercation because its irrelevent to me. I havent been in a car accident but i still wear a seat belt, just as i may not need to defend myself on a weekly basis but SD is still important to me. A good friend of mine was beaten senseless two weekends ago while minding his own business. Ironically, he had only said to me a few days before the incident that he didnt see the need to know any self defence because he had 'never been in a fight'.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Good thread terry. I for one am glad that i have to read constantly about sport vs art. I have been to forums where everybody agrees on everything and quite frankly it put me to sleep. The discussion comes up a lot because people are passionate about the subject, which for me personally is a good thing. I am not too worried about my or anybody elses last altercation because its irrelevent to me. I havent been in a car accident but i still wear a seat belt, just as i may not need to defend myself on a weekly basis but SD is still important to me. A good friend of mine was beaten senseless two weekends ago while minding his own business. Ironically, he had only said to me a few days before the incident that he didnt see the need to know any self defence because he had 'never been in a fight'.

Very good post!

Terry, let me see if I can discuss some of the points in your post. I do not know what the % is of people that take MA's for self-defense, sport, recreation, social activity etc. I think a person can take them for a combination of reasons. I will also say that none of the above reasons are 'wrong' if that is what works for the person.

My issue is when a person takes a MA for one reason, but the training is actually for something else. I think that is a valid concern.

Crime is a relative thing. For a person in a rural area it may not be as big a concern as someone in the inner city. Many people that have never been a victim don't think they will be a victim. But unfortunately that isn't always the case. Sometimes the wrong place can be any place and the wrong time can be anytime. Peoples lives can change in an instant.

If someone doesn't want to train for SD, then they shouldn't have to and conversely, if someone wants SD then the school should teach it (if they advertise that they do).

I've been in a lot of on-duty physical altercations over the last 21 years, not even counting military before that. I stopped counting at the 200 mark. No, I'm not a tough-guy. I'm not a bad ****. I'm not bullet proof. I've just worked bad areas. And with the reputation of being 'the karate guy' I kinda get put in the forefront sometimes. But I can say that I've verbally de-escalated more than I've had to fight. I'm proud of the times I've been able to de-escalate.

Off-duty I've had around a half dozen. Most of that has been coming to the aid of someone else.

A particular individual may go their entire life without an altercation. But how do you know for sure? Just a thought.

 

[WC_lun]

To WC Lun I am making assumption based on certain people post, I believe I have that right. I agree SD is necessary but evrybody will not ever encounter a stituation where they will need it. Most people take a MA to get physically fit more so than self defense. I also believe sport is god for martial sport notice not martial arts, the two needs to be be seperated.

If a person chooses to train for physical fitness then they should be in a school that can give that to them. Same for other reasons of training. In my opinion, every reason is equally as valid as the next. However, if a school is training for one thing and says they train for another, that is a huge issue for me.

As for the self defense thing, how does one know if today is the day they will need to know how to defend themelves? Some people want to be prepared if that day happens and there is nothing at all wrong with this attitude. No more than a person wanting to train for sport, physical health, or any other reason.

There are some places in the world where the liklihood of a person, particularly a young male, getting into a situation where they need some self-defense skills is great. It sounds like you live in a better place and that is great. However, it also seems you are making judgements about other people based upon your own situation and your views of some of the post here. The school I am involved in teaches self defense. The people who train there do it because they see the value of what we teach. Anyone who doesn't see that value is welcome to train elsewhere. I make no apologies for what we do, because I know what it is we do.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I think most of these debates stem from the fact that people truly love tkd and are defending the 'style' they choose, and that can only be a good thing. I cant necessarilly agree that such a large % of people get into martial arts for non SD reasons. I would imagine at least 90% of people doing krav maga are doing it for SD reasons and the same could definetely be said for zendokai and many other arts, even at our club "self defence" is in the top 2 reasons anybody picks on our joining form for reasons they are starting tkd. I also think the reason tkdists can get so passionate about this subject is because of all the negativity aimed at our art currently, I mean go and google "tkd" and the amount of negativity on the net is just becoming a joke. The people high up in tkd like to hide behind the theory that "we are the most popular art out there and numbers are growing so we must be doing something right", but if we base things purely on 'popularity' then we would have to concede that mcdonalds is a great restaurant because it, too, is popular. Just because something is popular does not make it good. Tkd in the past was more SD related, people will say it wasnt but we all know it was. That is not necessarilly a good or bad thing but I cant blame people for for defending their position either way, actually I commend it. I dont like the idea that because I havent been in a fight in the last 20 years then it just wont happen. People do defencive driving courses and wear seatbelts despite never having been in a car accident. If I put the news on tonight I can guarantee at least 2 or 3 stories of people being mugged, assaulted, raped etc and the only thing I know for sure is that in a large % of these cases the victim is being assaulted, mugged or raped for the first time, they may have waited 20 years for it to happen, but it happened.

 

[dancingalone]

Honestly, Terry, Daniel, if you're referring to the argument I was involved in recently, I really don't see it as a sport vs. art or a sport vs. SD discussion as I did not espouse the superiority of one side or another.

I'm not a sport guy - I probably was as a teenager - but I have a high sense of respect for those who train to be successful in competition. We know they work hard. We know they are fit. We know they can hit like a ton of bricks. It is totally fine if people want to train this way and good luck to them.

At the same time, it's absolutely great if others prefer to focus elsewhere too. Such as SD. Such as personal health or lifestyle improvement. It's also OK if people who to carve up bits and pieces of TKD for use in other systems or even in MMA circles if they can successfully do it. Whatever. It's a free country.

What I dislike/disagree with and will speak up against are several common ideas and assumptions that come out from time to time here on the TKD board:

• the implicit implication that ALL those who train for sport are automatically better and train harder than ALL those who have focused on other goals
• the failure to recognize that training for specialized goals leads to higher success in the fulfillment of those same specialized goals as opposed to training generically or for other goals altogether
• the broad assumption that something modern or organizationally driven must be BETTER than something older and/or something individually idiomatic

I hope this sheds better light on my own perspective, if that has been needed.

 

[terryl965]

Well dancingalone NO I was not talking about you, but I will responed to some of your points.


the implicit implication that ALL those who train for sport are automatically better and train harder than ALL those who have focused on other goals

For me those that train for the sport would most likely be in better shape, I.E. cardio & conditioning. Now with that being said, that is not an absolute

.

the failure to recognize that training for specialized goals leads to higher success in the fulfillment of those same specialized goals as opposed to training generically or for other goals altogether

The only thing I will say is those training in the sport would have the upper hand inside the ring against an opponet that does not. Simply because they understand the rules and the distance and counters better. More or less they understand the game better.

the broad assumption that something modern or organizationally driven must be BETTER than something older and/or something individually idiomatic

Well even with the sport I like alot of the old time training over the modern training of today. Lets look at Dirk from the Mavericks they had a segment about how he trains and been with the same guys forever and they do alot of old time training and he is a top teer athlete in Basketball. Hell he was even doing frog hops during training, what million dollar athlete does that anymore.


Like I said I have respect for both the art because that is what I love and know, the sport because that is what my son's love about TKD right now. I have over the last 12-15 years come to appreciate and understand the game. Believe me when we first started in the sport I was telling my son get your hands up because that is how I was tought for SD. In the sport you can keep your gaurd down and still be productive as a fighter which he has become over the last couple of years.

What gets me is when people try to put the two together as one because that is like putting flag and tackle football together two different sets of rules to e played by but they still have alot of the same techs and name as in football.:asian:

 

[dancingalone]

For me those that train for the sport would most likely be in better shape, I.E. cardio & conditioning. Now with that being said, that is not an absolute

.

No, it's definitely not an absolute. There are plenty of tremendously conditioned people who practice other facets of martial arts as a primary focus. Some of them even do other things like run marathons and such.

The premise also assumes that everyone training in sport methodology is a world class contender. Not so. Casual students that attend sport schools likewise are sport practitioners even if they are not elite ones. People who make this argument frequently are stacking the deck so to speak, comparing only the top of one side to the whole of the other.

The only thing I will say is those training in the sport would have the upper hand inside the ring against an opponet that does not. Simply because they understand the rules and the distance and counters better. More or less they understand the game better.

Well, yes, I agree. This is what I mean by training for specialized goals. If you are training to win in the ring, you're going to be miles ahead of someone who hasn't when it comes to competing. Likewise, if you think defending against a knife attack is important, you'd better train specifically for it within methodology designed for instantaneous reaction and best practices in the field of knife defense. Ancillary attributes such as speed and movement gained from other activities, like sport training for example, may be helpful but they can be hindering too.

Train specifically for the goals you have. I can not repeat that enough.

the broad assumption that something modern or organizationally driven must be BETTER than something older and/or something individually idiomatic

Well even with the sport I like alot of the old time training over the modern training of today. Lets look at Dirk from the Mavericks they had a segment about how he trains and been with the same guys forever and they do alot of old time training and he is a top teer athlete in Basketball. Hell he was even doing frog hops during training, what million dollar athlete does that anymore.

There is no real answer to this. Not everything new under the sun is an improvement. At the same time, not everything old and 'traditional' remains golden forever either. Individual instructors must decide what is best for themselves and their students.

Like I said I have respect for both the art because that is what I love and know, the sport because that is what my son's love about TKD right now. I have over the last 12-15 years come to appreciate and understand the game. Believe me when we first started in the sport I was telling my son get your hands up because that is how I was tought for SD. In the sport you can keep your gaurd down and still be productive as a fighter which he has become over the last couple of years.

We should all train in what makes us happy. Good for him.

What gets me is when people try to put the two together as one because that is like putting flag and tackle football together two different sets of rules to e played by but they still have alot of the same techs and name as in football.:asian:

Correct, although I would likely use tackle football vs. rugby football as the analogy myself.

 

[d1jinx]

well....

I train for the streets,
KILLIN is what I do,
you step to me,
Ima kill you too...
:mst:

 

[Manny]

Nice post by Terry and nice replies all. I think TKD is a good balanced martial Art if all the methodoly/learning and trining is equal talking about of:basics,poomsae,sparring and self defense.

There is something going on about TKD because is not only me but a lot of persons and a lot of TKDoings that complain about TKD has lost one of the big things, the self defense and the martiality thing. You can see it and you cazn read it in this specialized forum of TKD.

The teaching of TKD has changed a lot since de 80's (when I started in TKD), the teaching and training has changed a lot, now we focus in the cardio thing, the bouncing and the steps, the high flashy/flanboyant combos of KICKS only and put beside the martial art per se.

Yes, the kids are trying to do wonderful kiks in the dojangs, but, what about punches?? every single kid and even man that I see training TKD perform horrible punches, they can't even clench well a single fist, their wrists bend upon impact hurting them, they even are afraid to break a single one inch thick pine board!!! Simply hands are a total cero in most of the dojangs.

What about blocking???? ohh boy my stiudents flich everytime I perform on them a block and complain... and I am not using full force to block an uncoming blow, and always tell these guys that a block is an atacck too that can cause disconfort and pain in the bad guy.

I know what I have to do to absorv part of a blow to not get hurt and I am trying to teach this on my students but they are too scary (even with controled blows) to get hit!!!

Spining kicks are wonderfull to do to the air or at the kicking shield or palchaguis but when we try to focus them on the student they fall apart, because the student does not want to kick his partner.

I am trying to do my part, my class is a men class, not too many students just two but waiting more to join and my class is like the I supouse must be, focusing in the entire repertorie of TKD not only kicking, and yes a good part of my schedule is poomsae another good part is one steps and ho shi sul (practical Ho Shi Sul), basics and sparring.

TKD has evolved into a kidie sport, all the TKD dojnags I know in my area but only one have kidie advertisement and the class are kidie oriented and that's fine but if only part of the kidie program could be improved.

Well, I am not crazy, something is going on on TKD and is not good, we have a problem, TKD is loosing credibility as a martial art and is wining soo much in the sport field. For the people who are inside TKD for the health and sporting thing good for them.

BTW here in my city TKD is just below soccer talking about kids activities, that's good for the kids, instead of sitting in the couch watching TV with a big Coke and chips is better doing some work out.

Manny

 

[ATACX GYM]

Zooming through so I have to make this quick:


I've been in quite a few scuffles and used my TKD Kenpo and all the methods availabe in my ATACX GYM arsenal to deal with them.The stories are in other threads.


1) Most civilian martial artists train for the more primarily needs of the civilian.Most civilians don't engage in or expect to engage in life and death struggles,so training that reflects this reality is quite practical.However,those of us with a SD mandate and inclination understand that one must train to deal with say armed and multiple opponents,and the different environments require different tactics and tweaked training...but the superior athlete with the superior delivery system has the advantage every single time visavis the less rigorously trained.It's true that most of us don't start off with exceptional athletic ability,but that is not only not an excuse but to me the very mandated reason for us to develope ourselves physically as much as we can.Therefore it behooves us to train our athletic attributes to the peak of our ability regardless of the environment or reason we are training,as it does everything beneficial for us including literally expanding our lifespan.

2) Not all sports TKD guys keep their hands down.In point fighting,in pro tkd,in K-1,and other sport combat activities you keep your hands up or you'll get punched AND kicked in thee ole noggin.

3) I have never met a SD taekwondoin who doesn't keep his/her/their hands up,especially once the altercation begins.My uncle and grandmaster used to gently remind us to keep our hands up by whopping us with a kick,handstrike,or weapon to the cranium.That will definitely get you to keep your hands up.I have never met a SD or sport taekwondoin who can't punch with authority.Maybe not a KO shot every time,but when they hit you? You know you've been hit.And the more elite the TKD punching at you--like an Olympian--the harder they hit.We still train to induce "trembling shock" in every blow that we land.Hand,elbow,foot,knee,chair,head butt,whatever.

4) What happens if you're called upon to defend a friend,loved one,or innocent? What happens if you see someone undergoing say an asthma attack and their inhaler is say 3-400 meters away at their house or in their car? Doesn't happen much,but it HAS happened to me.Twice.A complete stranger's friend went into insulin shock once at the basketball court and a cousin of my friend's friend had an asthma attack.Both times their medikits were in their cars parked about 300 meters away.Both times I used my 46 second PR 400 meter sprinting speed to retrieve the items in need and all ended well.If I hadn't been training athletically? I couldn't've done that.


Have you taken SD scenarios and formatted them into sports specific drills? I do it all the time.Knife disarms for instance.Set the clock for 4-3 minute rounds. Your student has 180 seconds to achieve 10 disarms,without getting killed or seriously stabbed.Punsihment calisthenics for each time the student "dies". Stop the clock with each successful disarm,and make the "knife attacker" do calisthenics for each time he/she/they are disamred.It's lotsa fun.It's harder than it sounds,lol.The first couple of days this? Your lone unarmed student is gettin the crapped stabbed out of him,lol.But by mid-week or the end of the week? They're getting better and by the end of week 2 they're all into it.It's an amazing turnaround...and here we have sports and SD seamlessly blended.

I have a gajillion drills like this.

 

[puunui]

No, it's definitely not an absolute. There are plenty of tremendously conditioned people who practice other facets of martial arts as a primary focus. Some of them even do other things like run marathons and such.

Rare though. Everyone needs a goal to train for. One thing about competition is that it gives practitioners a tangible goal. I think students who do not compete find it hard to continue training because they lack goals, especially after they receive their black belt. It can get tiring to train for the life or death self defense situation against the big bad ex felon that never happens. True, we might suffer from a nuclear attack one day, but probably not, so wouldn't it be better to spend our time on something other than fortifying the bomb shelter in the backyard? There comes a point where being "ever vigilant" gets boring, especially for the soccer mom, the 12 year old pre teen or other non LEO non-military personnel.

The premise also assumes that everyone training in sport methodology is a world class contender. Not so. Casual students that attend sport schools likewise are sport practitioners even if they are not elite ones. People who make this argument frequently are stacking the deck so to speak, comparing only the top of one side to the whole of the other.

What is a "sport school"? I ask because as I have stated previously, I only know of two in the United States, one is in Miami (Juan Moreno), and another in Los Angeles (Scott Fujii).

Well, yes, I agree. This is what I mean by training for specialized goals. If you are training to win in the ring, you're going to be miles ahead of someone who hasn't when it comes to competing. Likewise, if you think defending against a knife attack is important, you'd better train specifically for it within methodology designed for instantaneous reaction and best practices in the field of knife defense. Ancillary attributes such as speed and movement gained from other activities, like sport training for example, may be helpful but they can be hindering too.

How is training harder, becoming stronger faster and more aware in the process, become a hinderance?

Correct, although I would likely use tackle football vs. rugby football as the analogy myself.

With the exception that the rugby player (Self defense guy) never actually plays a game and instead is training for a game that will probably never happen.