Quotes, in and of themselves aren't evidence. I've raised that point more than once. You posited some actual points that you suggested are problematic, and someone else raised the point that those same things exist in the training environment for SD systems, too.Then you should have asked for confirmation. I can get you the volume and page number of the article in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts as one source for O'Neill's position. That would have continued this conversation along an entirely different path, which is the purpose of this board.
I'm not talking about after a clinch has been established. I'm talking about before that.Once the Judo guy grabs you, his aim is to take your balance.
Quotes, in and of themselves aren't evidence.
What, really, is the problem with sport training transitioning to SD?
Yeah come on guys don't make the creepy spider account come here
I don't believe without a special training, a Judo guy can deal with boxer's punch.
I posted what O'Neill, the highest ranked non-Japanese Judoka in the world during his era stated in regards to Judo, it's effectiveness and it's exclusion from WWII combatives. That is factual, it is history. If someone wishes to disagree with his assessment 70+ years later, they are welcome to do so. In my opinion, he was and is correct.
Guys at the end of the day....does it really matter? Judo guys will continue to train judo taekwondo guys will continue taekwondo. What's the point of this argument since it's gone beyond a discussion. Let's just all hug and move on now
I agree with everything that you have said here. But my concern is in an average Judo school, the "anti-striking" training is not included.Can he out box him? No. But it really comes down to who gets what they need first.
If the training is geared towards SD, nothing at all. The question, as I understood it, was sport Judo being effective for SD. In my opinion, it is not and is in fact detrimental. Can it be modified to be effective? Yes. Can the parameters be changed in the training methodology to give the student a higher % chance of success? Yes. But then it is NOT traditional Judo as it was designed to be by Kano. Judo was designed, on purpose, to be used in sport. Sport competitions, by there very nature, are artificial environments.
When did he compete?
And who did he beat?
And under what rule set?
Actually I would remove hip throws from military combatives but that is because it takes too long to be good at and you give your back up.
I believe this is the guy he was referring to: America's deadliest Irishman - the Irish James Bond
You are supposed to train self defense in an artificial environment.
No. SD is trained on mats, on concrete, on grass, in an elevator, in a car, lying in bed, on stairs etc. Not in a environment where you are facing one, and only one unarmed opponent that has agreed to abide by a set of rules.
Yes, that was O'Neill. When he taught knife defense he used an actual knife. He'd give a real blade to the student and told him to cut/stab him if they could. No one ever could. O'Neill, Fairbairn, Applegate, Sykes etc were a special breed. My grandfather received this training during WWII to compliment his ability as a golden glove boxer. It was brutal, but effective. And more importantly, retained in long term memory. I've touched on that here before.