Lifetime Supporting Member
- Jun 21, 2003
- Reaction score
I know this is kind of ridiculous coming from someone who doesn't even engage in streetfighting, but of all the fights I witnessed when I was in 'a bad place' they all began in the clinch and ended with a takedown, sometimes 'tori' would throw 'uki' on his head!
In this 'bad place', where i spent 8 months, I saw at least one fight per week, and it was all rather similar. Angry words, the two combatants grab each other, and then the inevitable throw to the floor. No Kickboxing, people don't politely circle and jab, and no thirty minute groundfights that end with a choke or armlock. If this streetfighting resembled any sport, I would say Greco-roman Wrestling and Judo are the only two that even remotely fit the bill.
The obsession with MMA, which is merely modern pankration, will pass, as all things do. You can't make money off of wrestling and judo, they're amateur sports primarily, so people will erroneously go after fads that have their beginnings and ends. It's rather depressing.
From what I have observed, I would deduce that wrestling, sambo, and judo are the best martial arts, since their main focus is takedowns and pins, and that kickboxing and submission grappling are worthless in this world or the next.
If the people involved in kickboxing or submission grappling put a tenth of that time and effort into something productive, like volunteerism, creative expression, or even studying, I think the world would improve tenfold.
My point is, fighting is for retarts, wrestling and judo is self defense, and people are wasting a lot of precious time doing things that don't even matter in the grand scheme of things.
And don't give me bs about 'completeness'. 'Completeness' is not an indicator of what is important in real combat. 'Effectiveness' is. And takedown sports are both safe, and 'quick kill' which means they take seconds to take effect, not 12 rounds or thirty minutes or an hour.
And I'm sure a few karate purists will get angry at this post, and say that wrestling and judo are just scholastic sports, but I will refer you to Lao Tzu who said, 'That the soft can overcome the hard, and the gentle overcome the rigid- few in the world can realize this!" Takedown sports are fun, healthy, a good social activity, a teacher of positive sportsmanlike values, and the best self-defense.
"No secret techniques from the Orient, only hard work!" -Doug Rogers, 1964 Silver Medalist in Judo. I think that just about says it all.
I'll start by saying two things. Nice post and no, I dont think you're babbling. I agree, that having a knowledge of takedowns/groundwork is important. Many places, such as what you described, such as a mental hospital, prison, etc., don't favor trading blows with the patients/inmates, so a controlling method would most likely be better.
As for the completeness and effectiveness...IMO, I think that the two actually go a little hand in hand. Being effective is of course very important. There are some arts out there that, while they may address controlling methods, don't get as deep as some other arts, therefore, in order to be 'complete' it may be necessary to look elsewhere for those skills. For example: there are weapon defenses in Kenpo. However, I wanted to further expand on my knowledge of them, so I looked towards a weapon based art, Modern Arnis.