Side Kick Before Roundhouse Kick?

[dancingalone]

Which would you teach a beginner first? The side kick or the round house kick? Or does it not matter?

I've always taught front, RH, and then side kick in that order, but I am wondering if it might be better to move the side kick to second in the progression. I am getting a little bit more flippy side kicks than I would like from the students, and I wonder if they aren't getting their muscle memory confused from practicing the RH.

Perhaps I should teach all the straight kicks first? Like front kick, side kick, back kick, and THEN the roundhouse kick?

I fully realize with time and study the problem should be taken care of naturally. I am wondering from an efficiency standpoint however.

 

[jthomas1600]

I've only been exposed to a few different ma schools and they have followed the same progression you are using. It makes sense to me. Of the three kicks it seems you are moving from the simplest to the most complex and different (in comparison to the first kick taught) which makes sense to me.

 

[seasoned]

From an open ready stance, I teach front kick to the front, side kick to the side, back kick to the rear. The round house, I teach from the forward stance because this stance helps them to pivot better to the front while landing into the horse stance. Each kick has a distinct cocking position, and preparatory foot position, and I will stress this first. Also by doing the kick slow and in two stages, cock, check foot position, extend slowly, hold while checking striking position, return, and back to starting position.
Too many people start the kick to fast and miss picking the foot up first, then extending it toward the target. I feel that with the front kick and the round house kick, the knee is important, so I teach the knee kick first with the corresponding kick to follow. Illustration: Front knee kick first, while telling the student that the knee kick is the first half of the front kick. The same is done with the round house. Round house knee kick first then the kick off of that. Down the road they will have plenty of time to speed up the kick, and still keep the proper form.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I learnt roundhouse as the second kick after front kick and I had a sloppy roundhouse kick and didnt really correct it properly until much later. I think that for me roundhouse seemed easy and was similar to kicking a football so I never really learned the proper bio mechanics of it the way you tend to later on in development. I think it would have benefited me to learn sidekick first because it would have been a little harder and would have prepared my support foot better for learning roundhouse. Thats just me though, others may be different.

 

[ForeverStudent]

I learned front - side - roundhouse.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Front
Side Piercing
Roundhoue / turning Kick.

Yes, roundhouse is easier. This makes it counterintuitive to teach side first. But:

Learning roundhouse first makes the transition to side harder. It continues to look like the roundhouse.

Ingrain mechanices of the sidekick first. Then transition to the turning kick.

IMNSHO the sidekick has the most difficult mechanics of all basic kicks (Basic as opposed to multiples and Jumping being advanced) However, once you learn the mechanics of the side kick and can do it properly, all other basic kicks are easier to learn. The corrallary is not true meaning that learning the turning kick and front snap kick will not help you with Hook, Vertical, reverse turning (Spinning heel) kicks.

Was telling this to a class which had some talented guys from Poland who had trained their thru 2nd Gup and they told me their instructor used to say the same thing... except in Polish

 

[terryl965]

Well it has always been for me, front, roundhouse, side, axe, crestcent.

 

[Stac3y]

We teach side, then roundhouse for junior white belts. They don't learn the front kick until yellow belt. This is because we're a Superfoot-style school; most of our techniques are done from a sideways fighting stance with the front leg.

 

[Manny]

It's the same here, the first basic kicks we learnt are a) front kick, b) roundhouse kick and then c) side kick. The side kick is one of hardest kicks to learn. Definetively one's must more effort in learning the correct way to do this kick.

Manny

 

[granfire]

The side kick is one of hardest kicks to learn. Definetively one's must more effort in learning the correct way to do this kick.

Manny

I have to agree, the side kick is not easy to perform properly, even after you have practiced it a while. And if not corrected, you get a sloppy roundhouse out of it.

 

[Balrog]

We teach front kick, side kick, round kick to start with. The side kick is the most difficult of the three, so we spend a little longer on it. White Belts start with front and side, then learn the round kick when they promote to Orange Belt.

 

[DMcHenry]

I had always seen it front, side, roundhouse - but since the sidekick is much more difficult and not easily picked up, I teach it front, roundhouse, sidek kicks. It still takes a lot of work with the students to get their sidekicks correct.

 

[Gorilla]

My observations have been Front Kick, Roundhouse, Side, Axe, Crescent. Having said that I like moving up the side kick in the teaching progression. I believe that it would help with the muscle memory issue that you stated. My daughter had trouble picking up the side kick and until now I had not attributed it to muscle memory but it makes allot of sense. The fact that she is a soccer player probably contributed to this issue. I would say that it took her quite a while to achieve a strong side kick. She has a very good one now but it took allot of extra work!

 

[ATC]

Well I think it is preference more than anything so I am not sure that it really matters. We teach;

Axe
Inside out (crescent)
Outside in (crescent)
Front (push)
Front (snap)
Round
Side
Back Kick
Hook Kick
Back spinning hook

The order that we teach is thought to be a natual progression as each kick is built from the one before it.

 

[granfire]

My observations have been Front Kick, Roundhouse, Side, Axe, Crescent. Having said that I like moving up the side kick in the teaching progression. I believe that it would help with the muscle memory issue that you stated. My daughter had trouble picking up the side kick and until now I had not attributed it to muscle memory but it makes allot of sense. The fact that she is a soccer player probably contributed to this issue. I would say that it took her quite a while to achieve a strong side kick. She has a very good one now but it took allot of extra work!

Well I think it is preference more than anything so I am not sure that it really matters. We teach;

Axe
Inside out (crescent)
Outside in (crescent)
Front (push)
Front (snap)
Round
Side
Back Kick
Hook Kick
Back spinning hook

The order that we teach is thought to be a natual progression as each kick is built from the one before it.

you guys muddy the water with too many kicks. I mean for the sake of this discussion.
I think crescent kick is somewhat off the chart as it is not anywhere near similar to side/round kick in the mechanics, and actually the axe kick isn't either. (though I would not want a white/yellow belt beginner try an axe kick. you got to have a bit more muscle control for that than most beginners have IMHO. Heaven knows Crescent kicks cause enough casualties...0

 

[Gorilla]

you guys muddy the water with too many kicks. I mean for the sake of this discussion.
I think crescent kick is somewhat off the chart as it is not anywhere near similar to side/round kick in the mechanics, and actually the axe kick isn't either. (though I would not want a white/yellow belt beginner try an axe kick. you got to have a bit more muscle control for that than most beginners have IMHO. Heaven knows Crescent kicks cause enough casualties...0

Maybe? I do like the idea of teaching the side kick before the roundhouse kick. It would have benefited my daughter.

BTW Terry had the same order of kicks!

 

[ATC]

you guys muddy the water with too many kicks. I mean for the sake of this discussion.
I think crescent kick is somewhat off the chart as it is not anywhere near similar to side/round kick in the mechanics, and actually the axe kick isn't either. (though I would not want a white/yellow belt beginner try an axe kick. you got to have a bit more muscle control for that than most beginners have IMHO. Heaven knows Crescent kicks cause enough casualties...0

You are correct. This is the order we teach the kicks and to be more detailed as in why, and why this is a natural progression to us is;

The axe and the crescent kicks are taught with a straight leg in the beginning. So we use these kicks at the start as leg and hip conditioning kicks.

The axe is a straight up and down kick with no knee bend. This kick stretches the hamstrings as well as builds up the muscle needed to lift the leg and flex the hips. It teaches you to keep the hips back, until the leg is at its highest point, then to push the hips forward while pushing down the leg as fast as possible. As you stated, this is a difficult concept to understand and muscle control is needed. This is also the case as well for the crescents. The only other thing the crescent does is to build the muscles needed to move the leg and the hips open or closed, depending on inside out or outside in. Once you can do these kicks properly the others are rather simple and can be performed rather well and with better technique and power.

Once you can do the kicks above doing a push kick is simple, as you know how to trust your hips forward and at the right timing to generate power. This is also the case for the front snap kick as well. You learn how to kick from the hip not with a rocking back and swing as I see a lot of beginners do.

Most beginners kick like kicking a soccer ball. They rock or twist the body back to generate power and bend the knee while it points to the ground then extend the leg at a low point and swing it from the ground up. This is a crap kick and take quite a while to break those habits and have the beginner use the hip to lift the leg and then use the hips to push out while snapping from the knee. Starting with the Axe and crescents do just this.

Then from there each of the other kicks are just simple body position changes and or hip positions.

It does work quite well and make kicking easier as they progress up.

 

[seasoned]

From an open ready stance, I teach front kick to the front, side kick to the side, back kick to the rear. The round house, I teach from the forward stance because this stance helps them to pivot better to the front while landing into the horse stance. Each kick has a distinct cocking position, and preparatory foot position, and I will stress this first. Also by doing the kick slow and in two stages, cock, check foot position, extend slowly, hold while checking striking position, return, and back to starting position.
Too many people start the kick to fast and miss picking the foot up first, then extending it toward the target. I feel that with the front kick and the round house kick, the knee is important, so I teach the knee kick first with the corresponding kick to follow. Illustration: Front knee kick first, while telling the student that the knee kick is the first half of the front kick. The same is done with the round house. Round house knee kick first then the kick off of that. Down the road they will have plenty of time to speed up the kick, and still keep the proper form.

As a follow up to my above post. Once the kick have been learned, in the order above, on the sparring end I would teach.

Front kick low, followed with a round house to their head. The flow is great.

Next, round house to their head, with a step behind side kick with the same leg. More good flow.

Then there is the side kick set the leg down, and pivot, and back kick with the other leg.

But, I digress...........

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I teach front kicks first, then roundhouse, then side kick. In my opinion, they build on each other.

Daniel

 

[seasoned]

As a follow up to my above post. Once the kick have been learned, in the order above, on the sparring end I would teach.

Front kick low, followed with a round house to their head. The flow is great.

Next, round house to their head, with a step behind side kick with the same leg. More good flow.

Then there is the side kick set the leg down, and pivot, and back kick with the other leg.

But, I digress...........

I teach front kicks first, then roundhouse, then side kick. In my opinion, they build on each other.

Daniel

Sounds good Daniel.