GreatLakes
White Belt
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Time to find a real martial arts place. If what you are saying is true, then your "instructor" is a crackpot.
Do yourself a favor and run like hell.
My Dojo Is Becoming Infected
- Thread starter Shinobi Teikiatsu
- Start date
Time to find a real martial arts place. If what you are saying is true, then your "instructor" is a crackpot.
Do yourself a favor and run like hell.
Erm, did you read the previous post at all?
Maiden_Ante
Yellow Belt
We don't even wear patches. If the sensei would like me to, sure, but I wouldn't if it was some religious symbol that went against my beliefs.
And mixing up religion in your MA like that? That's simply wrong.
Your teacher should not try to force anything on you, his personal beliefs ARE his personal beliefs. Make a protest, and if he doesn't buy it, quit and find another dojo.
And mixing up religion in your MA like that? That's simply wrong.
Your teacher should not try to force anything on you, his personal beliefs ARE his personal beliefs. Make a protest, and if he doesn't buy it, quit and find another dojo.
repz
Green Belt
That would annoy me, for all you know hes probably using it to swell his church numbers. I would have definetly left, I was raised as Catholic, but my own studies on history and tracking down the history of chrisitianity and its formation changed all of that.
If you are paying for it, then its wrong. You invested time and money into the art only for him to add a new element to it that you arent interested in, that promotes his own personal beliefs, it seems intrusive to me. Refuse to wear the patch, thats what I would have done.
If you are paying for it, then its wrong. You invested time and money into the art only for him to add a new element to it that you arent interested in, that promotes his own personal beliefs, it seems intrusive to me. Refuse to wear the patch, thats what I would have done.
I know this threads is a bit old but I have something to say on this topic, I dont think this is right, Im assuming this is the "ninjutsu" school I was looking into a few years ago. This guy was all god this and god that. Which is fine if I was at church. People go to these kind of place's to learn the martial art not about religion. Now dont get me wrong I believe in god and attend church on occasion but one thing I cant stand is having god constantly put in my face in place where it has lil to do with religion. Im a mechanic by trade and once worked at a shop, where the owner was constantly talking about god( all the guy did was judge judge judge people!) I quite because I was going to ktfo out him. So I say to anyone in this situation just leave it's your choice.
I think that schools like this appeal to people who feel that everything in their lives must be 'Christian' no matter what it is. I think that such schools meet a need. So long as the school owner is up front about the religious nature of the school, be it Christian or anything else, it is fine: train there it its what you want and don't if it isn't.
The problem here, if I recall (this thread is quite old) is that it didn't start out that way, but rather shifted from religion being more of an undertone to being a major focus during the time that the OP was there.
Daniel
Blade96
Senior Master
if they are jehovahs witness knocking, pretend u are a roman catholic and ask them to join you in praying the rosary
Naked martial arts? Interesting
btw there is a lesbian brown belt in my dojo, so i can imagine what bringing religion a lot of it is against homosexuality, into our shotokan would be like for her and anyone else who is not against her ( like me, im all for gay rights)
Just thought I'd bring this up cause there are more than just the issue of forcing beliefs on others. thus far which is only what was discussed here. But Many religions and branches also believe in things that are harmful (and would hurt people like my homosexual dojo mate)
Thankfully our senseis dont do that. He did make a reference to god in class once though and it was funny though. We were doing punching on the spot and he said "punch hard and use yer hips, thats what god gave em to ya for. And - If you dont believe in god - He gave em to ya anyway"
I almost laughed out loud at that. And Im agnostic.
A lot of good insights,
A dojo is the realm of the Sensei, and in this case the sensei is a minister. In the old days martial arts and "religion" where interwoven
and it was difficult to find a non-religous dojo. Today there are thousands of atheist dojos around.
I have students who are not Christian, I dont force them to wear the patch or to memorize scripture. All I ask is they listen, learn, and focus
on their training and if Jesus can be a part of it, better for them.
Now I dont know how he is advertizing this Dojo, but it seems he has
an identity crisis to deal with. He either totally becomes a Christian Dojo or goes back to teaching as before.
Although I do think you are misunderstanding the use of the word "church"
in the greek language used to write the New Testament the word used was "ekklesia" meaning:
(strongs concordance)
translates as church 115 times, and assembly three times.
1 a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly.
1a an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating.
1b the assembly of the Israelites.
1c any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously.
1d in a Christian sense.
1d1 an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting.
1d2 a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for orders sake.
It all basicly boils down to: who are you and why do you want to study the martial arts?
secondly, do you want "religion" mixed in with your training?
although I think that there is more here than you are leading on to, deeper issues of conviction and faith. But I will leave you to deliberate those issues on your own unless you would like to talk about them.
My humble and Ignorant .02 cents,
Chris
A dojo is the realm of the Sensei, and in this case the sensei is a minister. In the old days martial arts and "religion" where interwoven
and it was difficult to find a non-religous dojo. Today there are thousands of atheist dojos around.
I have students who are not Christian, I dont force them to wear the patch or to memorize scripture. All I ask is they listen, learn, and focus
on their training and if Jesus can be a part of it, better for them.
Now I dont know how he is advertizing this Dojo, but it seems he has
an identity crisis to deal with. He either totally becomes a Christian Dojo or goes back to teaching as before.
Although I do think you are misunderstanding the use of the word "church"
in the greek language used to write the New Testament the word used was "ekklesia" meaning:
(strongs concordance)
translates as church 115 times, and assembly three times.
1 a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly.
1a an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating.
1b the assembly of the Israelites.
1c any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously.
1d in a Christian sense.
1d1 an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting.
1d2 a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for orders sake.
It all basicly boils down to: who are you and why do you want to study the martial arts?
secondly, do you want "religion" mixed in with your training?
although I think that there is more here than you are leading on to, deeper issues of conviction and faith. But I will leave you to deliberate those issues on your own unless you would like to talk about them.
My humble and Ignorant .02 cents,
Chris
Good point,
almost all martial arts patches, much less the history and inception are devoid of anything "religious". I agree that when Christians want to integrate their faith with anything, the world makes a big deal about it.
Chris
almost all martial arts patches, much less the history and inception are devoid of anything "religious". I agree that when Christians want to integrate their faith with anything, the world makes a big deal about it.
Chris
I am the Shidoshi and senior student at the Dojo that "Shinobi Teikiatsu" is talking about in this thread. We have known about this rant for some time now and I have struggled with whether or not to even address the issues he has brought up here. It wasn't until his recent visit with us to "drop in and say hi" that I decided it was time to set the record straight about what he is claiming.
I am not the owner of the Dojo or the Shihan. I am Sensei's senior student the Shidoshi at the Austin branch. I am incharge of all the happenings with the school.
"Shinobi Teikiatsu" trained with us for about 3 yrs on and off. He always seemed to be a nice kid and never gave us any trouble and seemed to enjoy training. If I'm not mistaken I believe he was a 6th or 7th kyu when he left training. When he joined the Dojo we were in the transition period of us seperating from the Bujinkan. "Shinobi Teikiatsu" never really had any ties with the Bujinkan org.
I was in Japan when Sensei was awarded his Shihan rank and I was there when Soke Hatsumi gave sensei his blessing to seperate from the Bujinkan. This is not an uncommon practice for Hatsumi especially with his trusted students. Sensei was a personal student of Soke Hatsumi as well as Naguchi. Hatsumi knew of sensei's Christian background and beliefs and gave us his Blessing to continue teaching Budo Taijutsu and the ninja traditions.
Sensei came to Christ years ago and could no longer continue on in the Shinto/Buddhist teachings ingrainded in the higher levels of training in the art. So he choose to seperate himself out. We still teach all combat aspects of Budo Taijutsu, none of that has changed. We have never pushed any Christian beliefs on any of our students. Students are free to practice their beliefs and train with us with no discrimination. Yes we do incorporate Christian values in the dojo. Big deal we replaced the demon worship with the 10 Commandments.....
Sensei got rid of the Bujinkan patch and replaced it with a new school patch. Last I checked it's his school he can if he wants. Again I need to remind all that "Shinobi Teikiatsu" never really had any ties or attachments to the Bujinkan. I find it interesting that he seemed to have such an issue with the patch and never brought it up to me or to Sensei.... Infact he never spoke to us about any concerns he had about the dojo. He let us know he was not going to train any longer via email due to "financial" reasons and school priorities.....
We are a highly recognized Budo Taijutsu school and high recommend in the Bujinkan community. We are very carefull in our business practicies and do our deligence in maintaining all levels of the law and practicing upstanding business practices.
As far as "Shinobi Teikiatsu" comment as to us not being a "real" martial arts school but more of a hang out, I'll allow the Special Ops, Marine Recon, Swat, CIA and FBI agents we train out side of the Dojo address that.
I do insist if anyone has any questions or concerns please don't hesitate to contact me or send me a message. And I do encourage all to check us out sometime, we are always looking for good hearted students eager to train.
Shidoshi
I am not the owner of the Dojo or the Shihan. I am Sensei's senior student the Shidoshi at the Austin branch. I am incharge of all the happenings with the school.
"Shinobi Teikiatsu" trained with us for about 3 yrs on and off. He always seemed to be a nice kid and never gave us any trouble and seemed to enjoy training. If I'm not mistaken I believe he was a 6th or 7th kyu when he left training. When he joined the Dojo we were in the transition period of us seperating from the Bujinkan. "Shinobi Teikiatsu" never really had any ties with the Bujinkan org.
I was in Japan when Sensei was awarded his Shihan rank and I was there when Soke Hatsumi gave sensei his blessing to seperate from the Bujinkan. This is not an uncommon practice for Hatsumi especially with his trusted students. Sensei was a personal student of Soke Hatsumi as well as Naguchi. Hatsumi knew of sensei's Christian background and beliefs and gave us his Blessing to continue teaching Budo Taijutsu and the ninja traditions.
Sensei came to Christ years ago and could no longer continue on in the Shinto/Buddhist teachings ingrainded in the higher levels of training in the art. So he choose to seperate himself out. We still teach all combat aspects of Budo Taijutsu, none of that has changed. We have never pushed any Christian beliefs on any of our students. Students are free to practice their beliefs and train with us with no discrimination. Yes we do incorporate Christian values in the dojo. Big deal we replaced the demon worship with the 10 Commandments.....
Sensei got rid of the Bujinkan patch and replaced it with a new school patch. Last I checked it's his school he can if he wants. Again I need to remind all that "Shinobi Teikiatsu" never really had any ties or attachments to the Bujinkan. I find it interesting that he seemed to have such an issue with the patch and never brought it up to me or to Sensei.... Infact he never spoke to us about any concerns he had about the dojo. He let us know he was not going to train any longer via email due to "financial" reasons and school priorities.....
We are a highly recognized Budo Taijutsu school and high recommend in the Bujinkan community. We are very carefull in our business practicies and do our deligence in maintaining all levels of the law and practicing upstanding business practices.
As far as "Shinobi Teikiatsu" comment as to us not being a "real" martial arts school but more of a hang out, I'll allow the Special Ops, Marine Recon, Swat, CIA and FBI agents we train out side of the Dojo address that.
I do insist if anyone has any questions or concerns please don't hesitate to contact me or send me a message. And I do encourage all to check us out sometime, we are always looking for good hearted students eager to train.
Shidoshi
Let me ask you this... do you take as much time to consider the random band or product you advertise on one of your T-shirts?
Sean
"Demon worship"?..
Oh, and he did inform you of his concerns, you wrote it right there, "school priorities". Did you bother to return e-mail..
I also dont think it was necesary to attempt to belittle Shinobi Teikiatsu by exposing his rank etc, IMO Three years is quite an investment. In fact, you come across a little... self rightous.
You have only served to give the impresion that, i would say you are soon to become something of a discriminatory group, only advertising through the churches for "good hearted folks".
Lionsroar -- thanks for stopping by and sharing your view.
Before I tripped over my own words, I went back and checked what I said, way back on the first page. (Did you take a bit of time to read all 11 pages of this thread? Lots of interesting stuff there, and I'd really appreciate your take on some of the things people brought up...)
I stand by them. Your teacher has every right to take his training and the class he leads in the direction he believes is right, but he needs to be honest about it. I said that, as a minister, I expect his faith to be a part of all he does. It's very possible that more religion sneaks into his training than you realize. I think your comment here about replace "demon worship with the 10 Commandments" is a telling example. I don't think anyone here questioned your teacher's qualifications or authority to teach and lead the training in the path he believes is right. But he has to be careful that he fully and openly presents the religious emphasis, if present, in the training. Has the school become a clique of the church? Has everyone who's not part of the church left? It's not a problem -- if he doesn't see it as one.
Before I tripped over my own words, I went back and checked what I said, way back on the first page. (Did you take a bit of time to read all 11 pages of this thread? Lots of interesting stuff there, and I'd really appreciate your take on some of the things people brought up...)
I stand by them. Your teacher has every right to take his training and the class he leads in the direction he believes is right, but he needs to be honest about it. I said that, as a minister, I expect his faith to be a part of all he does. It's very possible that more religion sneaks into his training than you realize. I think your comment here about replace "demon worship with the 10 Commandments" is a telling example. I don't think anyone here questioned your teacher's qualifications or authority to teach and lead the training in the path he believes is right. But he has to be careful that he fully and openly presents the religious emphasis, if present, in the training. Has the school become a clique of the church? Has everyone who's not part of the church left? It's not a problem -- if he doesn't see it as one.
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
Why wait 5 months after people stopped posting about it to make a comment? I forgot all about this until just now.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
- Joined
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You know it is real easy for people to hide behind the computer screen and air heir dirty laundry online with a screen name and a title. Personally I believe this was dead in the water thread and should have been left that way.
Cirdan
Senior Master
Tell me more about this demon worship...
jthomas1600
Blue Belt
You're last statement is likely true, but since this has been revived and I missed it the first time, I'll chime in.
I'm a Christian and it's a big part of who I am. If there were a quality Christian school where I lived I would check it out. That said, my only experience with "Christian" martial arts was a bad one. Personally I really like the school I train at now. It is completely religiously neutral. Nothing the instructor says or teaches contradicts with what I believe. My kids train with me and there is no problem with the school eroding the Christian values I try to teach them. I'm confidant that a Muslim, Hindu, Jehovah Witness, Mormon, or atheist etc. etc. would be equally comfortable training here. In my mind you can't ask for much more than that.
I am going to guess that a Christian might take offense at the use of the Dragon as a symbol of mastery, and equate that with being demonic, but then again, anything outside the western concept of truth could also be considered demonic; so, just about anything Eastern is suspect.
Sean
