I competed in another fighting style without speaking to my Sensei first (serious)

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

I currently train in a full contact karate discipline, I have always wanted to take a real fight and recently had the opportunity to test my might in a Muay Thai tournament.

Here lies the issue: I didn't say anything to my dojo, I just took a week to prepare and showed up to the tournament as an independent fighter (meaning I didn't fight under their dojo name).

This question is directed to the Sensei's and Shihan's here, would you be upset that a student in your club fought elsewhere without your knowledge?

On one hand I am in my 30's and am an adult, so asking 'permission' feels a bit weird to me, especially from someone I only see a few hours a week, but on the other hand a little bit of professional courtesy goes a long way and is respectful.

I could see this going 1 of 2 ways: Either they don't care and think it's cool I took a real fight and was competitive, or 2 they feel disrespected and I possibly get expelled.

What do you guys think?

Also if anyone is interested I can give the play by play, it was a fun but challenging learning experience.

Probably wouldn't get punched in the face for free again though.

 

[Deleted member 61138]

It depends on whether you belong to a dojo or a cult...You did nothing wrong.
You are a student....Not property

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

It depends on whether you belong to a dojo or a cult...You did nothing wrong.
You are a student....Not property

Very fair point, thank you for that perspective.

I only ask the question because I sometimes hear about situations where a dojo doesn't want their student's cross training for whatever reason.

 

[Deleted member 61138]

Very fair point, thank you for that perspective.

I only ask the question because I sometimes hear about situations where a dojo doesn't want their student's cross training for whatever reason.

I would leave that dojo if that were the case mate

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf114 144]

From the sensei perspective, I'd ask you about it. Not because I have any issue with you cross training, but because we could have spent time in class or separately preparing you for the fight, and I'd be curious why you didn't want that help/any advice beforehand.

 

[Deleted member 61138]

From the sensei perspective, I'd ask you about it. Not because I have any issue with you cross training, but because we could have spent time in class or separately preparing you for the fight, and I'd be curious why you didn't want that help/any advice beforehand.

probably because 99.9% karate instructors would know squat about preparing someone for a Thai fight

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

From the sensei perspective, I'd ask you about it. Not because I have any issue with you cross training, but because we could have spent time in class or separately preparing you for the fight, and I'd be curious why you didn't want that help/any advice beforehand.

I see how my actions could be perceived as offensive.

And to that I would respond that I didn't want to take away from the other students and make my own personal goals their burden.

I probably could have used some advice; I managed to make it to the final bell and lost by split decision. As it turns out, karate defense mechanics don't translate to boxing well. but at least I have a hard face and didn't get knocked down or knocked out.

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

probably because 99.9% karate instructors would know squat about preparing someone for a Thai fight

And I would have to agree.

 

[philwhite42]

I would hope my students would tell me so I could support them. If you did something independent then you shouldn’t feel bad. A school owner should only be upset if you misrepresented their school. Like fighting dirty or acting poorly while wearing their brand.

I would say congrats for stepping out of your comfort zone and trying something new.

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

I’ve heard about this kind of thing before. Things are a little different in the UK because training fees tend to be very low and teachers turn up several times a week for the love of the art; they may think they’re ’doing you a favour’ by imparting their knowledge.

If the dojo ethos is quite traditional, then you should at least mention it to your teacher and perhaps even explicitly seek permission. British culture would consider this as merely courtesy anyway. But what if they say, “No, I don’t give you permission!” But what would you do at that point?

In the USA I know you are charged high fees and being taught a combat sport is seen as transactional. You tend to feel you’re buying a product and therefore you have certain consumer rights. In this context, perhaps ‘asking permission’ is seen as demeaning and even groveling but teachers have notoriously large egos so you need to be careful. . You have a very different culture

 

[skribs113 133]

(At least in the West) your martial arts school doesn't own you. You participate in martial arts as a customer of the school of your own free will. What you do outside of that class is none of their business unless you want it to be.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf114 144]

probably because 99.9% karate instructors would know squat about preparing someone for a Thai fight

That number sounds very off. Most karate instructors (and martial arts instructors) in general that I know have cross-trained quite a bit. And if they don't know directly how to prepare someone for that, they likely know someone else who does. To NotdirtyDannnn's point, I could also point out the ways that karate 'doesn't' work for muay thai and/or how to adapt the karate that he has learned to that environment. Which is a whole lot easier than just showing up and hoping it works.

If someone came to me and told me they wanted to have a muay thai fight, I'd focus our training on that, but also highly recommend they train a month or two first at a place about 15 minutes away from where I teach, to help get used to that style and get fight-ready for it.

Again, I wouldn't be upset at someone for not wanting to participate, nor would I be offended by it. I'd want to know why they didn't come to their martial arts instructor before participating in a martial arts competition, to receive advice/support, since it likely indicates there's something I'm doing wrong/something they feel their not getting from me.

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

(At least in the West) your martial arts school doesn't own you. You participate in martial arts as a customer of the school of your own free will. What you do outside of that class is none of their business unless you want it to be.

Far West, maybe. Like I said, things are very transactional in the USA.

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

I’ve heard about this kind of thing before. Things are a little different in the UK because training fees tend to be very low and teachers turn up several times a week for the love of the art; they may think they’re ’doing you a favour’ by imparting their knowledge.

If the dojo ethos is quite traditional, then you should at least mention it to your teacher and perhaps even explicitly seek permission. British culture would consider this as merely courtesy anyway. But what if they say, “No, I don’t give you permission!” But what would you do at that point?

In the USA I know you are charged high fees and being taught a combat sport is seen as transactional. You tend to feel you’re buying a product and therefore you have certain consumer rights. In this context, perhaps ‘asking permission’ is seen as demeaning and even groveling but teachers have notoriously large egos so you need to be careful. . You have a very different culture

It is interesting to hear about the cultural differences between UK and US based martial arts. I didn't realize UK based sensei more or less do it for the love of their art, and it's more about community building than making money.

But yes you are correct, it is expensive, what I pay to train 32 hours a month would be £96.65 ($130).

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

I would hope my students would tell me so I could support them. If you did something independent then you shouldn’t feel bad. A school owner should only be upset if you misrepresented their school. Like fighting dirty or acting poorly while wearing their brand.

I would say congrats for stepping out of your comfort zone and trying something new.

It was fun; I would suggest other Karateka try to compete in Thai Boxing or K1 kickboxing, but maybe not MMA unless they have grappling/takedown defense.

 

[Xue Sheng106 23]

But yes you are correct, it is expensive, what I pay to train 32 hours a month would be £96.65 ($130).

I have never paid that much in the USA

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

I have never paid that much in the USA

I don't live in a massive city, but prices range from as low as $80 a month to $200 a month for different gyms and styles. The cheapest at $80 is a Chinese kickboxing gym and the most expensive around $200 is a BJJ gym IIRC.

 

[Xue Sheng106 23]

I don't live in a massive city, but prices range from as low as $80 a month to $200 a month for different gyms and styles. The cheapest at $80 is a Chinese kickboxing gym and the most expensive around $200 is a BJJ gym IIRC.

I don’t live in a massive city either

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

It is interesting to hear about the cultural differences between UK and US based martial arts. I didn't realize UK based sensei more or less do it for the love of their art, and it's more about community building than making money.

Yes, my Iaido association (British Kendo Association) forbids instructors making a profit. So dojo charge by the lesson, other a month in advance so there’s a bit of a slush fund in case of emergencies. My other half’s Karate lessons cost $6.72 (£5) but they pay a month upfront assuming two sessions a week even though they can attend 10 times a week if they want.

The advent of McDojo such as Gokan Ryu, has seen other expensive practises including 10 week black belt courses (I think they’re actually black and white belt) but caveat emptor, as they say.

But yes you are correct, it is expensive, what I pay to train 32 hours a month would be £96.65 ($130).

Would you tell your employer that you had a second job, especially if that second job might reduce the efficiency in your primary role? I think even in the UK nobody would but they might risk disciplinary procedures if they started messing things up!

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

Yes, my Iaido association (British Kendo Association) forbids instructors making a profit. So dojo charge by the lesson, other a month in advance so there’s a bit of a slush fund in case of emergencies. My other half’s Karate lessons cost $6.72 (£5) but they pay a month upfront assuming two sessions a week even though they can attend 10 times a week if they want.

The advent of McDojo such as Gokan Ryu, has seen other expensive practises including 10 week black belt courses (I think they’re actually black and white belt) but caveat emptor, as they say.

Would you tell your employer that you had a second job, especially if that second job might reduce the efficiency in your primary role? I think even in the UK nobody would but they might risk disciplinary procedures if they started messing things up!

Very cool that it works that way, I envy you and your martial arts experience.

10 weeks to reach even 10th kyu is a stretch, I am not sure what anyone could be learning in 10 weeks and at the same time call themselves a shodan.

The worker-employer relationship in the US is fragile in almost all states. For example, I could be walked out of the door today with no severance pay for committing the smallest of infractions. Or if the company decides to downsize they could fire me on the spot if they wanted to. So my point is, sometimes people are not loyal to their employers here, it is all very transactional like you saying earlier about US culture. Years of tenure typically mean nothing without union protection, a contract, or knowing the right people, sadly we don't have the same employment rights you all have in the UK.

But I understand the statement you were trying to make with that analogy.