Has MMA popularity helped or hurt the MA Community?

[Kwan Jang]

As a school owner, I believe that the quality of my advanced students, especially my black belts, is the quality of my product. As it is in most industries, you can have short term success by putting out a poor quality product, but in the long run it will come back to bite you. Of course, it should be noted that many of the schools that are successful on the money side, but weak on the combative or technical side provide a strong service for teaching the lifeskills that many parents are looking for for their children.

There are schools that teach a large volume of students that keep a very high quality of their students with very high standards. Using BJJ as an example, Renzo Gracie's school often will have more students in a single class than many schols will have in their entire student body. When I fought at this year's NAGA world grappling championships, Renzo's team brought did very well in the medal count. Our schools (my instructor also helped Renzo, as well as Ralf and Cesar develop their teaching format) and Steve LaVallee's schools are known for producing high numbers of high quaility students as well.

It should be noted that when you compare BJJ's ranking system to others that their purple belt is placed roughly where most other quality programs have their 1st dan, their brown is where most have 2nd and their black is where most have 3rd. Not only in time and training, but purple is a teaching rank, too. So, let's compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges here. I agree fully with their idea of making their ranks something you truly have to strive for and grow into.

Even our schools have struggled the last few years with the quality issue as we've grown, but IMO we are correcting those mistakes.

 

[Maiden_Ante]

IMO: hurt, hurt, hurt. Now even the media tries to exploit the popularity with tv-shows like UFC. It really gets on my nerves when they try to prove who is the greatest fighter (thereby; what is the greatest fighting system) in this way. And the so-called "culture" of MMA with silly looking shorts in flashy colours and cool motives that'll make the fighters into walking commercial notice boards - this also applies to thai boxing.
Together with magazines like Fighter with pictures of some worked-out guy who looks a like steroid-pumped mental institution fugitive (of course, all in the spirit of appearance archetypes that plague the society in general).

I confess; I don't train MMA. I am certain that it's a good, solid self-defense system (otherwise it probably wouldn't get popular to begin with, would it?) so this is simply observations from my part. Then again, this was also the case in some countries with Asian martial arts some time ago when Karate kid (was it only me that just now heard the sounds of a thousand tormented souls crying out in agony?) came out.
So it'll pass, like all things that are popular in the media.

Uh, good night everyone.

/Andreas

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

And the so-called "culture" of MMA with silly looking shorts in flashy colours and cool motives that'll make the fighters into walking commercial notice boards - this also applies to thai boxing.

To be fair, I have seen some gi's and doboks that look like NASCAR driver's gear because they have so many patches, stars and stripes on them.

The silliness of the shorts, sponsor logos not withstanding, is more indicative of western athletics.

Daniel

 

[Maiden_Ante]

I can only imagine. I don't have any patches on my gi. I can understand having one or two, but then it just looks flashy and stupid.

And that doesn't budge my opinion on MMA "culture"...

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Fair enough. My opinion of the general culture of western athletics is not all that high. Unfortunately, the most visible MMA organizations seem to have co-opted the general tone that the WCW had back before WWF became WWE, along with a good amount of WWE fanbase shifting to the UFC.

When I see "Affliction" gear, I just shake my head. I sure wouldn't want my MA to be called an affliction.

Daniel

 

[pmosiun1]

I think MMA helps the Martial art community because what they do actually works.

It is unlikely other martial art where there are so many story of how certain master can do this and that but then if you look at the first UFC, these master and their martial art got exposed.

Sigh, just the other day, i was watching Ip man 2 and the bs that got filmed, in the movie, the wing chun guy win against the boxer, but we all know in real life the boxer would win against the wing chun guy.

Even more bs is how this martial art in this movie is portrayed as "humble" when in real life a beaten boxer is much more humble than an untested wing chun guy.

The patch in the fighters shorts are in many ways the sponsor of the fighter, it is after all a sport. Other sport also have sponsor, formula 1, football etc.

 

[mook jong man]

I think MMA helps the Martial art community because what they do actually works.

It is unlikely other martial art where there are so many story of how certain master can do this and that but then if you look at the first UFC, these master and their martial art got exposed.

Sigh, just the other day, i was watching Ip man 2 and the bs that got filmed, in the movie, the wing chun guy win against the boxer, but we all know in real life the boxer would win against the wing chun guy.

Even more bs is how this martial art in this movie is portrayed as "humble" when in real life a beaten boxer is much more humble than an untested wing chun guy.

The patch in the fighters shorts are in many ways the sponsor of the fighter, it is after all a sport. Other sport also have sponsor, formula 1, football etc.

Its only a movie , build a bridge and get over it.

 

[TigerLove]

From man to man - there is no general yes or no.

From me, mma helped me a lot about understad martial arts better. Why? Well whatever you do in life, having look at it from one more corner, is new experience, and always will help, no matter how experience looked like, it will make horizonts wider.

Martial artists must know something about other arts to truly understand his, and if for me mma counts in "other arts".

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Thread necro!!

Well, I voted that it has mostly helped. May seem odd, given that I practice what are considered traditional martial arts, but I feel that it has helped.

Firstly, it has opened a lot of people up to martial arts in general. Boxing and wrestling really did not do that in the same way. MMA has the benefit of being drawn from divergent styles, thus people will want to know, 'where did he learn that move?' or 'what styles did she train in to get that skilled?'

As others have pointed out, it has brought about some needed self examinaiton to the martial arts.

I have not watched a lot of mma, but I have watched some, and as a TMA guy, I really enjoyed examining what was being done on the mat and trying to ID the styles that contributed to a fighter's skills.

In the end, things come along and shake things up. Things improve, then plateau, then another shake up happens. We all look at Judo as a traditional art, but Kano was revolutionary in his day. Bruce Lee shook things up later. Now MMA. Each shake up results in advances and improvements across the arts. Who knows when or what the next one will be, but I look forward to it.

Daniel

With almost a year on, my opinion remains the same. I can do without some of the visual trappings and marketing, but those are just that: visual trappings and marketing.

While MMA does not really approximate a fight and more than a karate tournament or a boxing match does in my opinion, it does allow for a broad range of techniques to be used against a resisting opponent.

It also shows that people are willing to train and stay with a martial art in the United States without the carrot of constant belt promotions (as seen in many McDojos) or special clubs.

Daniel

 

[pmosiun1]

You guys should get over this. MMA actually helped the martial art community by showing what actually works, Muay thai, boxing, bjj, wrestling and expose those that do not work.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I chose helped and hurt in roughly equal measures.

I think MMA has brought unprecidented exposure to martial arts in general, and those schools that understand this and are smart enough to take advantage of it have done extremely well because of the increasing popularity of MMA.

I think that the economy has had much more of an effect on martial arts in general, but I think when you combine the two what you are currently seeing is the death of the middle group of martial arts schools... the ones that are okay... maybe have a good business model, but just an okay curriculum, or a good curriculum but just an okay business model.

I think what we are seeing is a thinning of the herd, with the really great schools, that have great curriculum and great business models excelling, and on the opposite end the McDojos also excelling.

I see nothing that will change with this either until the economy becomes a Bull again and alows mediocre people to do good basically by falling out of bed.

I would however like to see some champions of traditional martial arts start to reemerge.. you know the really badass tough guys who could make any system work, and would be champions for their respective styles in a sports setting. I think a vast majority of those types have migrated to mma settings, and I would absolutely love to see some traditional marts arts schools re attract them..
will it happen?
Dunno... I do not consider myself a traditional martial artist anymore either..
I consider myself a Kenpo guy first and foremost... but I have spent extensive time training in Muay Thai, Boxing, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in addition to my Kenpo.... So even if I were to go wipe the mats with MMA guys, I can not say with a straight face that I am purely a traditional martial artist....
I do believe that it can come around again... depends on some great individuals in the traditional systems to make it happen though.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

You guys should get over this. MMA actually helped the martial art community by showing what actually works, Muay thai, boxing, bjj, wrestling and expose those that do not work.

umm no not even close... what MMA did was show what works under strict rules, that are designed to reward athletic ability.
I find myself many times working under a specific set of rules and having trouble against another martial artist who specifically trains only under those rules, but when the rules open up I have found I have little trouble with the same person.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

You guys should get over this. MMA actually helped the martial art community by showing what actually works, Muay thai, boxing, bjj, wrestling and expose those that do not work.

I think it may have showed (to some degree) which martial arts work in a sport setting, as that is what 'events' such as these show, but not everybody wants to learn a 'martial sport'. I dont really think it showed much at all as far as what supposedly "doesnt work" because people of varying skill levels entered these events , particularly in the early days. For instance, royce gracie was a very elite bjj fighter , he was one of the best there was going around but I am not aware of too many other traditional martial arts that were represented by the best that art had to offer. Some of the footage Ive seen of apparant kung fu, tkd, karate etc practioners shows nothing more than some very average practitioners of these arts , surely no one I would consider "elite" in their field.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I think MMA helps the Martial art community because what they do actually works.

It is unlikely other martial art where there are so many story of how certain master can do this and that but then if you look at the first UFC, these master and their martial art got exposed.


The patch in the fighters shorts are in many ways the sponsor of the fighter, it is after all a sport. Other sport also have sponsor, formula 1, football etc.

you are pretty naive on the whole thing I see... the fighters in the first several UFCs were hand picked to fit into Royces style, they were hand picked because they were ignorant of Jiu Jitsu, and were really not a threat and were going along with the show... There were many much better fighters available that were turned down. I train in BJJ, am closing in on my Brown Belt, but have no misconceptions that the first few UFCs were just huge commercials designed to introduce America to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in the most dramatic way possible... it worked, and its effects are still working today... probably the most successful strategic move I have ever seen.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I think MMA helps the Martial art community because what they do actually works.

It is unlikely other martial art where there are so many story of how certain master can do this and that but then if you look at the first UFC, these master and their martial art got exposed.

Sigh, just the other day, i was watching Ip man 2 and the bs that got filmed, in the movie, the wing chun guy win against the boxer, but we all know in real life the boxer would win against the wing chun guy.

Even more bs is how this martial art in this movie is portrayed as "humble" when in real life a beaten boxer is much more humble than an untested wing chun guy.

The patch in the fighters shorts are in many ways the sponsor of the fighter, it is after all a sport. Other sport also have sponsor, formula 1, football etc.

Please refrain from using broad generalisations such as "we all know in real life the boxer would win against a wing chun guy". What are you even basing this on? Do you really believe that ANY boxer will beat ANY wing chun guy 100% of the time? If so you are very , very naieve. That really is a simplistic way of looking at things , I dare say there are many wing chun guys who would murder a boxer , and vice versa , and this can be said for all arts.

 

[tellner]

It's certainly bounced a lot of folks' reality checks

 

[HapJim]

MMA does not help MA. The silly attitudes and egos are like watching a bunch of 1st graders. Also, MMA does NOT show what "actually" works.

In MMA there are no.....
Eye gouges, no knife hands to the throat, no downward elbows the head, no strikes and/or elbows to the back of the head and spine, no small joint manipulation, no kicking/or kneeing a downed opponent in the face, no pressure point attacks.

These techniques work in the Real Life. These techniques worked, the few times I had to use them in Iraq while house clearing.

Traditional Martial Arts teach respect and dignity, along with their techniques.

MMA is a crude sport. Nothing more. It is IMO- a sport we can do without.

 

[MarCn]

I think Mostly hurt the MA Community

 

[Bumblebee]

I voted no relevance to me, because I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing regardless. I don't think it really matters what other people are doing. Or at least I'd like to think I think this way. Yes, some people are more focused on the physical aspects of martial arts, but is it really our place to judge? Does it hurt our martial arts training/enthusiasm? I don't think so.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

MMA does not help MA. The silly attitudes and egos are like watching a bunch of 1st graders. Also, MMA does NOT show what "actually" works.

It shows what actually works within the rule set. The rest is not something that I have observed as being pervasive. When I have watched matches, I have seen the same level of professionalism that one sees in boxing. I don't pay any attention to the advertisements.

To be fair, I have never trained in an MMA gym. I have however, seen plenty of lousy attitudes in more than one of what would be considered 'TMA' schools.

In MMA there are no.....
Eye gouges, no knife hands to the throat, no downward elbows the head, no strikes and/or elbows to the back of the head and spine,

None of which is done in TMA sparring either.

no small joint manipulation, no kicking/or kneeing a downed opponent in the face, no pressure point attacks.

I am not familiar enough with MMA rules to say if this is accurate, but I can say that while you may train in the technique in a dojo, you will not be using them in free sparring. Unless of course you stop short, in which case you are not really using them.

Regarding pressure points, those are hardly a guarantee. They don't work on everyone to the same degree or in some cases, at all.

These techniques work in the Real Life. These techniques worked, the few times I had to use them in Iraq while house clearing.

And you were in a military setting without an elaborate rule set insuring safety of the participants to hold you back.

You would not be handling your training partners the same way.

Traditional Martial Arts teach respect and dignity, along with their techniques.

Traditional martial arts don't technically teach anything. Instructors do. And not all instructors teach the non-martial aspects of the arts they instruct.

MMA is a crude sport. Nothing more. It is IMO- a sport we can do without.

Crude? On a technical level, it really is not, though I have no doubt that some competitors are crude. At the highest levels, it is very technical.

As for whether or not it is a sport we can do without, you'll get different answers depending upon who you ask.

I have no dog in this fight and got along just fine before MMA was televised, or even called MMA. But I have no issues with its existence. It simply is not my cup of tea.

Daniel