Has MMA popularity helped or hurt the MA Community?

[Tez3]

I think it has generally hurt the community. The MMA fights or the so called, "Ultimate Fighter Fights" are a sport fighting and not a combative fighting. They are mostly structured by complex rules and guidelines that make many traditional fighting techniques not allowed. So really it tends to drift away from traditional martial arts. Also in many of these fights it seems as if the more complex techniques of some styles are stripped away for the simple and basic moves in the ring. I also see very little blocking and stances are usually weak. this implies that such fighting is the way to go, but in the street and reality it is not.

MMA is a sport, of course it has rules , why are you expecting 'stance's and blocks'. What MMA implies is that it's the way for MMA to go, those of us whodo MMA don't claim it's for the street, its for fighting in MMA comptitions, we train SD for the street.
I could go on but I'm bored now.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

To a great extent, it seems to be slowly (or not so slowly) replacing wrestling. I do not hear teens talk about wrestlers anymore; UFC fighters are the talk of teens from what I have seen.

Too late to edit, but if it was not clear in my post, I specifically meant Pro wrestling in the WWE idiom, not wrestling in general.

Daniel

 

[TigerCraneGuy]

Blasted MMA thugs!!!

TMA definitely beats MMA anyday; look at Lyoto Machida, and George St Pierre, and-

Oh wait, forgot something important here: Machida's a Shotokan guy who's made it work in the ring... and wasn't St Pierre's background was in Kyokushin-Kai.

Whoops.:angel:

Seriously, it has been my experience that those who actually train are less likely to mouth-off than those who don't.

And any fighting system, be it traditional or modern, will always have its share of aggressive nutriders. You know the type: those morons who are always looking for an excuse to insult others. All talk, little to show for it.

Personally, as a Kenpo 5.0 practitioner, I feel that the MMA aspects of the method have actually helped and not hindered me. After a year of getting back in the game, I'm actually getting comfortable with ground-fighting, and can even foil basic submissions quite effectively.

Just my 2 cents.

TCG

 

[Joab]

I have to say I'm biased as I out and out hate MMA. I think the behaviour of those in the UFC in the tv commercials alone makes the martial arts look like it is full of a bunch of uncouth fellows, ruffians, naves and the like, perhaps something that might not get through the censors is what I really have in mind...but, hey, if its your thing go for it, I'm not into it.

 

[Ironcrane]

I have to say I'm biased as I out and out hate MMA. I think the behaviour of those in the UFC in the tv commercials alone makes the martial arts look like it is full of a bunch of uncouth fellows, ruffians, naves and the like, perhaps something that might not get through the censors is what I really have in mind...but, hey, if its your thing go for it, I'm not into it.

I believe I understand where you're coming from, as I was put off from watching MMA on T.V. due to all the ego, and from that one UFC reality show, that I suddenly forgot the name of.

I would like to mention though, that from a few of the MMA gyms, I've been in, and with the MMA people that I've talked with, they're pretty friendly people, and aren't full of themselves like you see on tv. In fact, they're just as put off by all the antics on tv, as everyone else.

 

[Tames D]

I have to say I'm biased as I out and out hate MMA. I think the behaviour of those in the UFC in the tv commercials alone makes the martial arts look like it is full of a bunch of uncouth fellows, ruffians, naves and the like, perhaps something that might not get through the censors is what I really have in mind...but, hey, if its your thing go for it, I'm not into it.

To me it's entertainment. I've always trained for the street but I enjoy watching Karate tournaments and MMA events. I put them in the catagory I feel they belong: Entertainment.

As far as the "uncouth" behavior of the 'typical' MMA player, who cares? I don't. Their behavior is refreshing after hearing about the daily antics of the 'typical' NBA thug, uh, criminal, uh, I mean player. Has that hurt basketball? I don't think so and again, I don't care.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I have to say I'm biased as I out and out hate MMA. I think the behaviour of those in the UFC in the tv commercials alone makes the martial arts look like it is full of a bunch of uncouth fellows, ruffians, naves and the like, perhaps something that might not get through the censors is what I really have in mind...but, hey, if its your thing go for it, I'm not into it.

Well, I think that it makes them the martial arts look like it is full of....

the WWE!

Lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllets get ready to rumble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Monday Nitro, a supersized smackdown, and a grudge match on the side!!

If you changed out UFC with WWE, strictly in terms of the advertising, nobody would notice.

Now when they tuned in or went to see the show live, they would definitely notice, as the UFC has a much superior product to the WWE...
...unless of course you want action oriented soap opera.

It is pretty clear that they are going for the same market that the WWE and WCW traditionally appeal to, so they are using a PR strategy that quite honestly, works very well. Not my cup of tea, or in my case, coffee, but there are those who like it.

Thames made referrence to off court thuggery of pro athletes. For the most part, any less than socially acceptable behavior seems to be limited to tasteless ads and the occasional bad egg. The athletes themselves seem pretty calm outside of the advertising.

Daniel

 

[Joab]

You guys might be right, but sadly, typical John Q. Public only sees the commericials, and those commericials make martial arts look bad in my humble opinion.

 

[WhiteLotus]

I have to say I'm biased as I out and out hate MMA. I think the behaviour of those in the UFC in the tv commercials alone makes the martial arts look like it is full of a bunch of uncouth fellows, ruffians, naves and the like, perhaps something that might not get through the censors is what I really have in mind...but, hey, if its your thing go for it, I'm not into it.

I tend to agree with you. I think todays youth have enough problems without trying to be like some of the MMa guys.

 

[Nolerama]

I tend to agree with you. I think todays youth have enough problems without trying to be like some of the MMa guys.

Could you cite examples that say that's the norm in terms of MMA people? The vast majority of MMA folks I've come across and seen on TV tend to be highly intelligent athletes.

Regardless, what makes MMA any different than any other sport in terms of youth idolization? If I had kids, I'd rather have them look up to Kenny Florian or Randy Couture than, say, football's Michael Vick or Plexico Burress.

The "MMA Creates Bad Role Models" argument is a cop-out and you know it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I was going to make this another thread but I simply don’t care enough about it anymore to put in the effort. But I have to say this whole MMA vs TMA thing in all its variations and incarnations has me completely befuddled.... I just don’t get it anymore.

I personally don’t see that much of a difference between the two and these types of discussions or arguments are starting to make me wonder if we, as Traditional Martial Artists, are so easily threatened by the existence of Mixed Martial Arts wouldn’t it be better to look at our own training to see why we feel so threatened and why we feel the need to argue about it so much. And why are we so concerned about how we are perceived by those that do not do martial arts and base their one and only opinion on something they see on TV.

IMO MMA (you could also substitute Sports Sanda if it were more popular) should not be so much a threat as a wake up call to many of those in TMA that are resting on our laurels instead of training like we use to in the old days.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I voted that it hurts and helps the "MA community" equally. On one hand, it's great advertising. No one can deny that. I'd say it's probably sparked as much interest in the martial arts as Bruce Lee did in his day. So on that front, it had helped the community.

It also gives a dynamic environment in which to stress-test some aspects of the martial arts. Without turning things into a deathmatch, or creating an entirely new format with an advanced type of protective gear that allows for a much greater deal of realism (stay tuned on that one, kiddos: it's coming, and sooner than you think ), MMA serves as a good vehicle to add at least a little bit more realism than wrestling or point sparring.

On the other hand, it hurts MA in a variety of ways. First and foremost is the view that this type of fighting is realistic. In the current days of MMA, There are a whole slew rules, which are for the most part necessary for the safety of the fighters. But it makes for decidedly unreal competition. That's all well an good, but the presupposition being propagated is that this is as real as you can get.

Another way MMA hurts the MA community is that it makes the Martial Arts all about fighting. A lot of my students are fans of MMA. I am too, as I see some truly impressive technique from many of the fighters. But the problem comes when my students try to apply the same mentality, intensity, and techniques with eachother. It creates a dangerous training environment.

Only on rare occasion do I work with trained athletes, and the opportunities where I train athletes conditioned for MMA. More often I work with kids, soccer moms, teenageers, etc.-- the people who need martial arts most. But we take this demographic and incorporate the MMA mentality, and this leads to an even more dangerous environment.

I'll also combat the mentality that any publicity is good publicity. There are a lot of people who now won't go into martial arts -- and again, these are the people most in need of martial arts-- because they think they have to be in optimal shape and willing to take a massive beating to learn anything in the martial arts (this problem is compounded by the fact that, in the advanced ranks, it is true to a certain degree).

One further reason it hurts MA is something I'm seeing on the streets more and more frequently: kids with no training reenacting what they see on TV. These kids have no training in the spiritual principles of MA or the proper use of force, and they are beating the tar out of eachother. This is making kids tougher, faster, more highly skilled (though unrefined)... and more willing to fight for no reason. It's making the streets more dangerous.

I teach people to use the gentle answer first and use as little force as possible, none being optimal. But frankly, I'm wondering if I can handle some of these kids myself without causing the kids serious harm. Hopefully I can, but these kids seem a lot tougher and more agressive than kids were when I was a kid. That's scary, because as a kid I got the crap kicked out of me with decent regularity, and had been jumped by groups of other kids more than once. One of my students got jumped recently and he was just barely able to keep training. And he won.

Granted, as the streets change, we must continue to refine our training and training methods to maintain relevancy. But I sincerely think I can point to MMA as a major influence in this change.


So all in all, MMA has both helped and hurt the community in roughly equal measures. We can't ignore the detrimental impact, but there are also Shining examples of beneficial things within MMA (BJ Penn's project comes to mind..)

There's my long-winded explanation of my vote.

 

[WhiteLotus]

Could you cite examples that say that's the norm in terms of MMA people? The vast majority of MMA folks I've come across and seen on TV tend to be highly intelligent athletes.

Regardless, what makes MMA any different than any other sport in terms of youth idolization? If I had kids, I'd rather have them look up to Kenny Florian or Randy Couture than, say, football's Michael Vick or Plexico Burress.

The "MMA Creates Bad Role Models" argument is a cop-out and you know it.

Sorry, you said, "highly intelligent"? lol....could you site even one , "Highly intelligent MMA fighter on TV" and lets see how they talk and the attitude they give and thier intellectual backgrounds and education.

It is not a cop out about the role models. I believe many youth today are being swayed in a wrong direction by these men and the marketing promoters who are after the big bucks.

 

[Steve]

Sorry, you said, "highly intelligent"? lol....could you site even one , "Highly intelligent MMA fighter on TV" and lets see how they talk and the attitude they give and thier intellectual backgrounds and education.

It is not a cop out about the role models. I believe many youth today are being swayed in a wrong direction by these men and the marketing promoters who are after the big bucks.

Kenny Florian is a gifted athlete and a very intelligent person. He's articulate and holds a degree from Boston College. Had his pro fighting career not taken off, his intention was to go to law school.

Rich Franklin holds a masters degree and was a math teacher in an urban high school before making a run as a full time fighter.

Joe Lauzon was a network administrator before going full time as a fighter.

These are three just off the top of my head. If you took some time to hang around BJJ or MMA schools, you'd find out the sport attracts smart people. The strategic aspects make it very appealing to intellectuals. I could spend some time researching other bios, but ultimately, I think that it would do you more good than me. I already know firsthand how smart many of the people I train with really are.

As an aside, the funniest example is Niels Hoven from that reality show, Beauty and the Geek. He had a perfect score on his SATs and was going to MIT when he was on the show, and he also trains BJJ. It's funny how many computer geeks really like BJJ in particular. My school is a great mix of geeks, cops and firefighters.

 

[Tez3]

Dr. Rosi Sexton has a 1st Class Mathematics degree from Cambridge and a PhD in Theoretical Computer Science from Manchester University, she is currently doing a degree in Osteopathy.She's a TKD blackbelt too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/northwest/series5/martial_arts.shtm
She's fought in America as well, Leigh Remedious who fought Genki Sudo in the first UFC from London has a first class honours degree in engineering.


On a UK MMA site SFUK there was for a longtime a running thread about what careers fighters/people who trained MMA did in 'the daytime'. the surprising thing to many who don't know much about us is that it's not the thugs who do it but teachers, police officers, social workers, IT specialists, students, a couple of university tutors, service people, even doctors. The majority of MMA followers are literate, intelligent and very pleasant people, yes they get drowned out at times by the less intelligent but on the whole MMA is not a sport for idiots, for one thing it's quite a celebral game,lke physical chess, if you can't think you'll get beaten!

 

[Milt G.]

Hello,

A little bit of both I think.
Depends on your point of view and training "rationale".

Thank you,
Milt G.

 

[Xinglu]

I voted both. I believe that MMA has improved martial arts, and the only thing it has hurt is public image.

 

[Tez3]

"mma is just a game based on a duel where we play with our arguments of physical expressions to the point where we stop when its time to..... We dont play for keeps. The mountain of a molehill of it is purely for marketing purposes,lol"

Sami Berik, Sanshou and Pro MMA fighter.

 

[WhiteLotus]

I was going to make this another thread but I simply don’t care enough about it anymore to put in the effort. But I have to say this whole MMA vs TMA thing in all its variations and incarnations has me completely befuddled.... I just don’t get it anymore.

I personally don’t see that much of a difference between the two and these types of discussions or arguments are starting to make me wonder if we, as Traditional Martial Artists, are so easily threatened by the existence of Mixed Martial Arts wouldn’t it be better to look at our own training to see why we feel so threatened and why we feel the need to argue about it so much. And why are we so concerned about how we are perceived by those that do not do martial arts and base their one and only opinion on something they see on TV.

IMO MMA (you could also substitute Sports Sanda if it were more popular) should not be so much a threat as a wake up call to many of those in TMA that are resting on our laurels instead of training like we use to in the old days.

I think it started with me when one of my students said about Kung Fu, something like, "why don't we see that in the ring and on MMA fights?"

My answer caused me to really look at the differences and there are many.

 

[WhiteLotus]

Kenny Florian is a gifted athlete and a very intelligent person. He's articulate and holds a degree from Boston College. Had his pro fighting career not taken off, his intention was to go to law school.

Rich Franklin holds a masters degree and was a math teacher in an urban high school before making a run as a full time fighter.

Joe Lauzon was a network administrator before going full time as a fighter.

These are three just off the top of my head. If you took some time to hang around BJJ or MMA schools, you'd find out the sport attracts smart people. The strategic aspects make it very appealing to intellectuals. I could spend some time researching other bios, but ultimately, I think that it would do you more good than me. I already know firsthand how smart many of the people I train with really are.

As an aside, the funniest example is Niels Hoven from that reality show, Beauty and the Geek. He had a perfect score on his SATs and was going to MIT when he was on the show, and he also trains BJJ. It's funny how many computer geeks really like BJJ in particular. My school is a great mix of geeks, cops and firefighters.

I think what I am refering to in particular is what i have seen on the shows like "the Ultmate fighter and others", with all the bold talk and boasting and even some drinking eachothers urine, and madness in the house etc. Then they talk big and curse all over the place and act like.....well.................meatheads, really. This is more the public image. I also know that because a person has a degree does not make them excused from such behaviour.