Has MMA popularity helped or hurt the MA Community?

[HapJim]

A quick reply, for time is limited. Your opinions are well presented.

But my opinion has never changed.

I have never been able to like, or respect MMA. I think it damages the image of Martial Arts. Damages and does nothing to help.

 

[repz]

For the TMA or Self Defense types.

Take out the eye gouges, groin shots, accept the fact that maybe one shot wont take out a superbly conditioned athlete when protection is wrapped around your hand, stop small joint manipulation and finger tears, dont use the enviornment (cage in this instance) and weapons, accept sport strategies (point count, aggresiveness for points), dont think about him pulling out a weapon, no neck strikes, no stomps to the knee, no nose or ear pulls. Modify all of this, which for some styles is all that they are or a big majority of their syllabus, conform to the popular and effective standard to make up what you dont have for this situation, and you maybe you can succeed in mma. Simple as that, and has been done before.

But dont forgot what you lost to get there, and its up to you to decide if it was all worth it or not.

 

[Andrew Green]

For the TMA or Self Defense types.

Take out the eye gouges, groin shots, accept the fact that maybe one shot wont take out a superbly conditioned athlete when protection is wrapped around your hand, stop small joint manipulation and finger tears, dont use the enviornment (cage in this instance) and weapons, accept sport strategies (point count, aggresiveness for points), dont think about him pulling out a weapon, no neck strikes, no stomps to the knee, no nose or ear pulls. Modify all of this, which for some styles is all that they are or a big majority of their syllabus, conform to the popular and effective standard to make up what you dont have for this situation, and you maybe you can succeed in mma. Simple as that, and has been done before.

But dont forgot what you lost to get there, and its up to you to decide if it was all worth it or not.

Now keep in mind that any "traditional" style that does all those likely either doesn't spar at all, or spars and competes under rules that are far more limiting then those used in MMA.

But if you are from a school where nose and ear pulls are a major part of sparring, please post some videos set to benny hill music.

 

[repz]

Now keep in mind that any "traditional" style that does all those likely either doesn't spar at all, or spars and competes under rules that are far more limiting then those used in MMA.

But if you are from a school where nose and ear pulls are a major part of sparring, please post some videos set to benny hill music.

Lol, i love when someone posts something and automatically becomes the representative of whatever point they want to make. No one in there should be something that can be taken as someone saying A is better than B. Even if you dont agree with that, or believe even if it was legal it wouldnt have an affect, its still fact that many arts have to give that up, and conform to a different standard.

And sparring using protected areas that allow groin shots and eye gouges is possible with certain gear. Sparring live with someone who is armed with a device that needs to be disarmed is possible. Not all tma and sd arts train the same, there is no standard in every art. MMA has a rule set that has to be followed, so its easy to guess their training patterns, non-mma doesnt has a standard ruleset to follow, so bunching them up into one broad catergory isnt so easy.

 

[Shifu Steve]

I think it’s difficult to say MMA this or TMA that at any length, I mean that’s such a generality that it really needs to be qualified by a specific example. I know we’re speaking in terms of opinion, everyone is entitled to their own, but personally I could not say what “most” TMA or MMA schools do. Again, I have to state that MMA is such a loose term (not to say TMA isn’t). I suppose you could call yourself a “Mixed Martial Artist” the second you train in another martial art. So by this definition I will call myself such and volunteer that I’ve trained in 2 or more traditional styles. Now that I’ve established my credibility (that was easy) as a “Mixed Martial Artist” I immediately find my new found (self imposed) title under scrutiny. If I really am a Mixed Martial Artist, why don’t I fight in a ring, cage or the UFC? For starters, I do actively spar. However, I spar for different reasons. Sometimes I spar to work a technique which isn’t really very close to an organized MMA bout. However, sometimes I spar, all out, for the very purpose of fighting.

I’ve never fought in an official capacity so I don’t know if that automatically disqualifies me from being a Mixed Martial Artist. If it does, then my question is what is a Mixed Martial Artist? If it’s a fighter that participates in “a full contact combat sport that allows a wide variety of fighting techniques and skills, from a mixture of martial arts traditions and non-traditions, to be used in competitions” then I renounce my title and happily return to the vague TMA camp.

My point is this: Mixed Martial Arts as a concept are a great idea. I’ve always adopted the philosophy that whatever works is worth using. Since most styles generally emphasize some things over others, there’s no shame in looking at a complementary style for some answers or just for a different perspective. However, MMA as a sport/culture/media outlet/entertainment venue is fundamentally different than the original idea behind Mixed Martial Arts (as a concept). I like that sport/entertainment MMA raises awareness about multiple approaches to fighting…I also think it raises awareness about extreme conditioning which can’t be a bad thing…however outside of that what is it really? It’s just s sport, like anything else. The techniques don’t necessarily work any better than the ones taught in the traditional dojo. How could they? They are based on those techniques (minus the ones that are not allowed). They may be organized and boiled down in a way that’s more conducive to a ring or cage fight, but any martial artist worth listening to can modify their own technique to fit a given situation. There’s also the experience of fighting in real time, with rules, for the purpose of winning. Something that any TMA dojo could do if they chose to. However I can’t speak to the caliber of the opponent but if you’re fighting to get the experience of real time/full contact you don’t need to fight Rampage Jackson. I think one of the issues is that traditional or self defense schools may have a different focus and see sport MMA as a watered down version of Martial Arts. To me, it’s just a sport. It has some ideas behind it that are good reminders for my own training but other than that its focus and goal diverge from my own. I don’t train for money, entertainment or sport so I don’t see how sport MMA affects anything I do no more than professional boxing does (another sport from which I look for ideas to apply to my own approach).

Concerning the culture aspect I can’t really see a synergy there either. Are we comparing dojo culture to what we see on TV? That’s pointless. These guys are coached to get ratings for TV and PPV. Of course they are going to act crazy. People want to watch that. That doesn’t even relate to the dojo because the circumstances are totally different. I have no idea how a given UFC fighter acts in his gym, dojo etc but I would guess it’s much more serious and subdued.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think it’s difficult to say MMA this or TMA that at any length, I mean that’s such a generality that it really needs to be qualified by a specific example. I know we’re speaking in terms of opinion, everyone is entitled to their own, but personally I could not say what “most” TMA or MMA schools do. Again, I have to state that MMA is such a loose term (not to say TMA isn’t).

I'm going to quibble a little.

MMA as a term is like kendo. Realistically, any sword art practiced in Japan could be called kendo, as it means way of the sword (literally sword way). But when you say 'kendo,' everyone knows that you're talking about guys in navy blue keikogis and hakamas wearing bogu and wielding shinais who fence under the rules set down by the ZNKR.

Likewise, when you say MMA, people know that you are talking about the sport, not the generic of simply mixing martial arts.

I suppose you could call yourself a “Mixed Martial Artist” the second you train in another martial art.

Not unless you are mixing the arts. I train in three different arts currently and have trained in three others previously.

Unless I blend them together in some kind of meaningful way in my practice, I am a diversified martial artist, but not necessarily a mixed martial artist.

And if I were to blend my hapkido, taekwondo, and kendo/kumdo into a cohesive style that involves kicks/knee strikes, hand/elbow stikes, and whacking with a stick and/or cutting with a sword (in our kumdo federation, we do both), then I may have a very cool art that is well suited to the late seventeenth/early ninteenth century, or to walking with a stick at night, but it still wouldn't be MMA (they'd never let me bring my sticks or sword into the cage. Drat).

Generally, outside of sport, I see such blending dubbed as hybrid rather than mixed. HKD and JKD are both hybrid arts, but nobody actually calls them MMA, though some do consider JKD to be the progenitor of modern MMA (I don't know that that is really accurate, however; I'll leave that to someone more versed in JKD and MMA than I to decide).

Minor quibble aside, I like your post and agree with you!

Daniel

 

[Shifu Steve]

Likewise, when you say MMA, people know that you are talking about the sport, not the generic of simply mixing martial arts.

I don't disagree with this. My point was to highlight MMA as an idea (generic) vs. the popular, specific notion that you refer to. I think The MMA raises consciousness about the generic concept which I ascribe to.

Unless I blend them together in some kind of meaningful way in my practice, I am a diversified martial artist, but not necessarily a mixed martial artist.

Logically I agree but in practice I blend the multiple styles I study. I have trained in multiple arts distinctly for the arts that they are (for the purpose of preservation and lineage) but I train techniques that are influenced by two or three styles and when I spar all those styles are present and I draw from them the aspects that I find most effective for me. So in my case I do blend them together in a meaningful way.

 

[MJS]

A quick reply, for time is limited. Your opinions are well presented.

But my opinion has never changed.

I have never been able to like, or respect MMA. I think it damages the image of Martial Arts. Damages and does nothing to help.

So, you're fine with the way the people act in the traditional arts? As I've said, its pretty safe to say that there are just as many issues there, as you claim there is with MMA.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Now keep in mind that any "traditional" style that does all those likely either doesn't spar at all, or spars and competes under rules that are far more limiting then those used in MMA.

But if you are from a school where nose and ear pulls are a major part of sparring, please post some videos set to benny hill music.

This comes back to whether or not you have to spar with certian moves to ready you for using them in real life. I train with guys who practice all the dirty stuff like throat strikes, groin strikes, eye gouges etc and all the things that are 'against the rules' in MMA. Now these guys obviously dont spar using these techniques but the fact they have practiced them literally thousands and thousands of times over 20 years or more leads me to believe that if they were being attacked those moves would come out and would be performed brutally. Just because they dont use them in sparring doesnt mean they cant do them effectively in my opinion. For a lot of these guys those moves would be the first thing they would rely on if defending themselves, whereas as a 'sports fighter' does not train these moves as they are not part of the ruleset so it is less likely they would be proficient in using them to defend themselves. Basically my point is, just because you dont do something in sparring doesnt mean you cant do it, providing it is practced regularly. For instance, I spar by WTF ruleset (no kicking below the belt), but I can assure you if push come to shove the first thing I will do is kick their knee out using one of the kicks Ive practiced a million times , just because I dont do it in sparring doesnt mean I cant do it.

 

[Tez3]

A quick reply, for time is limited. Your opinions are well presented.

But my opinion has never changed.

I have never been able to like, or respect MMA. I think it damages the image of Martial Arts. Damages and does nothing to help.

So basically you are saying that you find MMA people unlikable and cannot respect them ( I paraphrase for brevity), that's a pretty big judgement to make about several thousands of people worldwide you know nothing about. You base this judgement on what? A television show perhaps? an American television show? Have you seen MMA live, have you been in a proper MMA gym with serious fighters at all? Have you met fighters from other countries? Have you researched their backgrounds? Have you met any fighters from the Indian continent, from Australasia, from Europe, the UK? Have you met the guys from MMA gyms in Scotland who, when another, rival, Scottish gym was flooded out and the training equipment destoyed all gave something so the gym could restart in another location. Or how about all the promotions here that raise so much money for local charities or the fighters who fight for free on shows that help Service charities, or about the servicemen and women who fight MMA ( 2 British soldiers who fought MMA have been killed in Afghan so far), they disgust you too with their 'lack of morals' etc?
The US military has taken a great interest in MMA as the British forces are beginning to, believing there is much good to be found in it's training.
Most MMA fighters I know in the UK and Europe are experienced TMA people too, many have Dan grades in traditional styles from TKD, karate and WC.
The vast majority of MMA people are normal, hard working ( many have to combine training with their day jobs) martial artists who enjoy the challenges of MMA which when you actually get to know it is physical chess. It's not everyone's cup of tea but we like it, and what you see on your hyped up, money and fame driven American shows is not where MMA is at grassroots level where the real people are.

You don't have to like MMA but really it hardly shows a superior intellect and higher moral standing when you slag off thousands of people you know nothing about.

 

[Andrew Green]

but I can assure you if push come to shove the first thing I will do is kick their knee out using one of the kicks Ive practiced a million times , just because I dont do it in sparring doesnt mean I cant do it.

Now let me ask you this, in MMA kicking the knee is legal, so are you confident that it will have the effect you think it will when it very rarely does a great deal when used in full contact sparring?

Also, I can assure you that any sport fighter knows all the dirty tricks, despite being illegal in competition they still are used. In recent fights Kimbo can be seen digging a thumb into the eye in a attempt to get out of a triangle that the ref didn't catch, paul Daley was using a similar technique from the bottom of mount against Koschek. Groin kicks are a frequent occurrence, despite being illegal.

Also look at the history of MMA, it came out of vale tudo, in which none of the current rules really existed and schools did, and often still do include those in there training to some extent, although certainly not to the same extent as legal techniques. However you do have to remain aware of what the fouls are in any combat sport.

But to the real question, if you are confident that you can use techniques that exist outside of your sparring and competition rules if forced to do so, why would you assume that others, competing under a different ruleset are not capable of doing the same?

 

[Tez3]

Now let me ask you this, in MMA kicking the knee is legal, so are you confident that it will have the effect you think it will when it very rarely does a great deal when used in full contact sparring?

Also, I can assure you that any sport fighter knows all the dirty tricks, despite being illegal in competition they still are used. In recent fights Kimbo can be seen digging a thumb into the eye in a attempt to get out of a triangle that the ref didn't catch, paul Daley was using a similar technique from the bottom of mount against Koschek. Groin kicks are a frequent occurrence, despite being illegal.

Also look at the history of MMA, it came out of vale tudo, in which none of the current rules really existed and schools did, and often still do include those in there training to some extent, although certainly not to the same extent as legal techniques. However you do have to remain aware of what the fouls are in any combat sport.

But to the real question, if you are confident that you can use techniques that exist outside of your sparring and competition rules if forced to do so, why would you assume that others, competing under a different ruleset are not capable of doing the same?[/quote]


Exactly!

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Now let me ask you this, in MMA kicking the knee is legal, so are you confident that it will have the effect you think it will when it very rarely does a great deal when used in full contact sparring?

Also, I can assure you that any sport fighter knows all the dirty tricks, despite being illegal in competition they still are used. In recent fights Kimbo can be seen digging a thumb into the eye in a attempt to get out of a triangle that the ref didn't catch, paul Daley was using a similar technique from the bottom of mount against Koschek. Groin kicks are a frequent occurrence, despite being illegal.

Also look at the history of MMA, it came out of vale tudo, in which none of the current rules really existed and schools did, and often still do include those in there training to some extent, although certainly not to the same extent as legal techniques. However you do have to remain aware of what the fouls are in any combat sport.

But to the real question, if you are confident that you can use techniques that exist outside of your sparring and competition rules if forced to do so, why would you assume that others, competing under a different ruleset are not capable of doing the same?[/quote]


Exactly!

The difference as I see it is that, yes, they know the dirty tricks (I dont doubt that for a second), but they dont train them or practice them over and over because they are not part of the ruleset. I 'know' how to play golf, but I do not train it everyday so I doubt I could go out and become a pro golfer, just as these guys 'know' the dirty tricks but they dont train them over and over where some arts do. I dont doubt their skill for a minute and Im sure they could easily handle themselves on the street, but they are training in a 'sport' with rules and if viewed this way I have no problems with it whatsoever, but when people base "what works and what doesnt work" on what they've seen in MMA I have a problem with it. So, in answer to your question, I am as sure as I can be that techniques that exist outside my sparring ruleset may well work because I have practiced them time and time again, I may not use them in sparring but they are something I do 4 to 5 days a week, every week. Sportsman train for what may happen in a game, a cricketer does not practice batting against under arm bowling because they cannot come accross this in a game, so they simply dont train it, just as a sports fighter is not going to spend hours and hours practicing throat strikes because it is not something they are allowed to do or have to learn to defend against.

 

[MJS]

Both sides make a good point, but I'm going to side with Ralph a bit more on this one. I'll also refer back to the Fight Quest series, specifically the Krav Maga and Kajukenbo episodes. In both of those, we saw 2 MMA guys, who more times than not, fell back on their MMA training. Doug even said it himself in the KM show.

but when people base "what works and what doesnt work" on what they've seen in MMA I have a problem with it.

Another good point, and personally, I feel the same way. As another example: we talk about the elbow to the back against a double leg. The TMA guys feel its a valid tech, the MMA guys disagree. Yet in that Kaju show, we saw a very effective elbow to the back of Jimmy.

 

[Tez3]

The difference as I see it is that, yes, they know the dirty tricks (I dont doubt that for a second), but they dont train them or practice them over and over because they are not part of the ruleset. I 'know' how to play golf, but I do not train it everyday so I doubt I could go out and become a pro golfer, just as these guys 'know' the dirty tricks but they dont train them over and over where some arts do. I dont doubt their skill for a minute and Im sure they could easily handle themselves on the street, but they are training in a 'sport' with rules and if viewed this way I have no problems with it whatsoever, but when people base "what works and what doesnt work" on what they've seen in MMA I have a problem with it. So, in answer to your question, I am as sure as I can be that techniques that exist outside my sparring ruleset may well work because I have practiced them time and time again, I may not use them in sparring but they are something I do 4 to 5 days a week, every week. Sportsman train for what may happen in a game, a cricketer does not practice batting against under arm bowling because they cannot come accross this in a game, so they simply dont train it, just as a sports fighter is not going to spend hours and hours practicing throat strikes because it is not something they are allowed to do or have to learn to defend against.

I think what people are overlooking is that there are very few professional MMA fighters, there are many who fight pro rules but they don't earn their living fighting so don't train MMA day in day out, many, like the fighters at our club also train SD. A lot of fighters I know train SD with people like Geoff Thompson, his seminars and courses are very popular here. Karl Tanswell as well as training MMA fighters is well known for his SD training. One of our fighters recently gained his instructor certificate in Krav Maga. Many fighters work as doormen, police offciers, or are in the military, many do jobs where self defence is important, such as social work, teaching, security etc who fight.
I know only of literally five pro fighters here who do nothing but train, everyone else can't spend hours and hours training every day, most of them are also TMA people and will train a wide variety of techniques. Also most fighters other than the top guys will only fight a couple of times a year if that so the danger of only being able to fight in the cage/ring is much less likely. Most guys ( and girls) I know are more than able to step out of the rule mind set into a 'street' mind where they can defend themselves perfectly well. I guess most of you have seen the two Welsh guys in drag more than defending themselves on the You Tube clip.

 

[Andrew Green]

Another good point, and personally, I feel the same way. As another example: we talk about the elbow to the back against a double leg. The TMA guys feel its a valid tech, the MMA guys disagree. Yet in that Kaju show, we saw a very effective elbow to the back of Jimmy.

I doubt you will find many MMA practitioners that will tell you it will never be effective, it can be, there is a reason strikes to the spine are disallowed. What you will hear is that it is a unreliable technique, and you are far better off using higher percentage defenses as attempting the elbow will more often then not end up with you on your back, and getting there with a pretty hard impact as to do it you put your weight over the guy shootings shoulders, allowing a easy lift and slam.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I think what people are overlooking is that there are very few professional MMA fighters, there are many who fight pro rules but they don't earn their living fighting so don't train MMA day in day out, many, like the fighters at our club also train SD. A lot of fighters I know train SD with people like Geoff Thompson, his seminars and courses are very popular here. Karl Tanswell as well as training MMA fighters is well known for his SD training. One of our fighters recently gained his instructor certificate in Krav Maga. Many fighters work as doormen, police offciers, or are in the military, many do jobs where self defence is important, such as social work, teaching, security etc who fight.
I know only of literally five pro fighters here who do nothing but train, everyone else can't spend hours and hours training every day, most of them are also TMA people and will train a wide variety of techniques. Also most fighters other than the top guys will only fight a couple of times a year if that so the danger of only being able to fight in the cage/ring is much less likely. Most guys ( and girls) I know are more than able to step out of the rule mind set into a 'street' mind where they can defend themselves perfectly well. I guess most of you have seen the two Welsh guys in drag more than defending themselves on the You Tube clip.

Quite true. I think MMA is now suffering the same problems from 'exposure' that TMA's have suffered for years. Its like people who watch some olympic tkd sparring and then say "tkd guys cant punch, all they do is kick and they fight with their guard down", its not true but people can only go by what they see on the television if they dont actually participate in the MA. Now, all MMA fighters are lumped together because of what people see on the UFC on the television. Unfortunately it goes with the territory.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The difference as I see it is that, yes, they know the dirty tricks (I dont doubt that for a second), but they dont train them or practice them over and over because they are not part of the ruleset. I 'know' how to play golf, but I do not train it everyday so I doubt I could go out and become a pro golfer, just as these guys 'know' the dirty tricks but they dont train them over and over where some arts do. I dont doubt their skill for a minute and Im sure they could easily handle themselves on the street, but they are training in a 'sport' with rules and if viewed this way I have no problems with it whatsoever, but when people base "what works and what doesnt work" on what they've seen in MMA I have a problem with it. So, in answer to your question, I am as sure as I can be that techniques that exist outside my sparring ruleset may well work because I have practiced them time and time again, I may not use them in sparring but they are something I do 4 to 5 days a week, every week. Sportsman train for what may happen in a game, a cricketer does not practice batting against under arm bowling because they cannot come accross this in a game, so they simply dont train it, just as a sports fighter is not going to spend hours and hours practicing throat strikes because it is not something they are allowed to do or have to learn to defend against.

Great points. If a MMA practicianer trained those types of technques and did some training modified for the street i.e. Differnt body positioning and stancing, accounting for the pressence of a blade (No more double leg takedowns!) an enemy who will try to rip or bite off an ear or finger (I saw a guy bite of another mans lip once.) and some other considerations and he will be just fine for the street. I know Gregg Jackson teaches his fighters about these things, it be safe to assume others do as well.

The average MMA fighter stance leaves his testicles open like a speed bag because no one is suppossed to kick him there, so he uses stances that work better for the ruleset. That is smart for his sport, could be the end in the street.

And before I get the usual MMA Fanboy, well a kick to the groin, a gouge of the eyes ect probably wont stop a determined fighter, how many MMA fights have been stopped because of an inadvertent eye poke or gouge? 2 that I have seen. How many times you see a fighter need a few minutes after a knee to the balls? a few that I have seen.

No imagine someone targets your eyes and groin and it's someone who has practiced and drilled these techniques and is out to end you.

A MMA fighter (Hobbyist, Amatuer or semi Pro) would do well to spend maybe 20-30% of his time training for the street and then I would not want to fight him.

A traiditional or Combat martial Artist would do well making sure he did some non cooperative and semi co operative light to full contact sparring.

See both camps have much to offer, they are bothg right and wrong. Work together and then they can both be right.

Even with the negaitves, which to me are way more about idiotic internet fanboys and their underinformed opinions holding MMA up as the be all end all of fighting than anything the ighters themselves do, MMA is a great sport and has much to offer the rest of the MA community.

Shugyo!

 

[Shifu Steve]

The average MMA fighter stance leaves his testicles open like a speed bag because no one is suppossed to kick him there, so he uses stances that work better for the ruleset. That is smart for his sport, could be the end in the street.

Good point in my opinion. The MMA fighter adapts to the rules of the organization he fights under for advantage. Training like this over a period of years could definitely lead to some habits that may be counterproductive in the street. Not to say they could not be reconciled. In contrast, most traditional martial artists would be at a disadvantage in a cage match because of that very same rule set and would need to adapt to the circumstance. With the different training goals will come habits that will either help or hinder in a given situation. However all habits can be broken or created with practice and repetition so the advanced MMA fighter that cross trains may be able to adapt to his environment very quickly.

 

[Tez3]

Great points. If a MMA practicianer trained those types of technques and did some training modified for the street i.e. Differnt body positioning and stancing, accounting for the pressence of a blade (No more double leg takedowns!) an enemy who will try to rip or bite off an ear or finger (I saw a guy bite of another mans lip once.) and some other considerations and he will be just fine for the street. I know Gregg Jackson teaches his fighters about these things, it be safe to assume others do as well.

The average MMA fighter stance leaves his testicles open like a speed bag because no one is suppossed to kick him there, so he uses stances that work better for the ruleset. That is smart for his sport, could be the end in the street.

And before I get the usual MMA Fanboy, well a kick to the groin, a gouge of the eyes ect probably wont stop a determined fighter, how many MMA fights have been stopped because of an inadvertent eye poke or gouge? 2 that I have seen. How many times you see a fighter need a few minutes after a knee to the balls? a few that I have seen.

No imagine someone targets your eyes and groin and it's someone who has practiced and drilled these techniques and is out to end you.

A MMA fighter (Hobbyist, Amatuer or semi Pro) would do well to spend maybe 20-30% of his time training for the street and then I would not want to fight him.

A traiditional or Combat martial Artist would do well making sure he did some non cooperative and semi co operative light to full contact sparring.

See both camps have much to offer, they are bothg right and wrong. Work together and then they can both be right.

Even with the negaitves, which to me are way more about idiotic internet fanboys and their underinformed opinions holding MMA up as the be all end all of fighting than anything the ighters themselves do, MMA is a great sport and has much to offer the rest of the MA community.

Shugyo!

Your quote has me saying what was actually said by someone else!!

MMA rules say you have 5 minutes to recover from a kick to the groin, of course personally I've never found being kicked in the nuts a problem rofl!

However most men will stand 'defensively' in any situation which may endanger their precious bits.

Totally on a tangent, when a fighter is kicked in the groin there is this sussuration of noise all around the spectators, even the ref winces. there's two separate noises, a gasp from all the males watching and a giggle from all the women.