Has MMA popularity helped or hurt the MA Community?

[Tez3]

I think what I am refering to in particular is what i have seen on the shows like "the Ultmate fighter and others", with all the bold talk and boasting and even some drinking eachothers urine, and madness in the house etc. Then they talk big and curse all over the place and act like.....well.................meatheads, really. This is more the public image. I also know that because a person has a degree does not make them excused from such behaviour.

Oh dear, you have to remember that this is a reality television programme and that the fact they are fighters is actually just the excuse for them being there, it could for any other reason, the programme makers don't actually care. Do you have 'Big Brother' over there?
If you want to know over in Europe this is the image of Americans in MMA, so should we paint all Americans like this because we have seen them on the television doing the things you pointed out? For many yes this is what Americans do, the MMA bit is less of an issue to many here as this is an American programme, made by Americans and with American in it.We could also judge Americans by the other stuff thats on television, the gangs the mafia etc etc. Do you see my point here? Don't judge the whole by a little thats on offer by a television company.

 

[gardawamtu1]

Oh dear, you have to remember that this is a reality television programme and that the fact they are fighters is actually just the excuse for them being there, it could for any other reason, the programme makers don't actually care. Do you have 'Big Brother' over there?
If you want to know over in Europe this is the image of Americans in MMA, so should we paint all Americans like this because we have seen them on the television doing the things you pointed out? For many yes this is what Americans do, the MMA bit is less of an issue to many here as this is an American programme, made by Americans and with American in it.We could also judge Americans by the other stuff thats on television, the gangs the mafia etc etc. Do you see my point here? Don't judge the whole by a little thats on offer by a television company.

A lot of that could be seen in the UK v. US version last season. I'm from the US and wish we could have had much more mature and serious representation. The UK fighters, for the most part, outclassed ours.

 

[Tez3]

A lot of that could be seen in the UK v. US version last season. I'm from the US and wish we could have had much more mature and serious representation. The UK fighters, for the most part, outclassed ours.

I know most of the fightrs that were in TUF, and they are good guys. We'd all said to them before they went they they weren't to show us up and they were to behave themselves! All of them have responsible jobs and fighting isn't their main 'profession', they knew they'd all go back to their day jobs too. One, Martin Stapleton is a Royal Marine Commando PTI and wouldn't let down the Corps in public. It's a matter of pride and perception, however the programme makers should take responsibliity fro the way they encourage people to behave badly, a show full of people behaving well isn't going to sell.

 

[Milt G.]

Hello,

I think the big "put off" for MMA practitioners are the attitudes that many of them have. Kind of like professional wrestlers. While, perhaps, helpful to their sport, it can be a put off to the rank and file "others". I think much of the overall negativity towards the discipline is embodied here.

I know that many of these folks just "play the part" for the promoters and fans. Perhaps beneficial in that realm. But when those same attitudes "bleed off" into their personal lives and other relationships is when the negativity towards the whole "shooting match" is most prevalent. Much of that behavior becomes attributed to MMA in general. Sometimes wrongfully so.

I know that many of the practioners of MMA systems are not as the sport is perceived as a whole. It is just the general "perception", fueled by the ones that throw off the negativity and aggression so openly and often. And what I mean by that is the overly aggressive "posturing" and the apparent lack of self esteem "style". The "demanding" respect thing. Respect is earned, and can never really be demanded or forced, IMO.

I have found that the real "capable" practitioners are the ones that are quiet. Sadly, the "loud" ones set the stage for many and give the sport much of its negative press. I had a student in the late 1980's. Went to BJJ in the early 1990's as a start to his current MMA "style". Was a very polite and respectable young man when a student. Made it to 1st black, even. I continue to hear of his "change" to this day. He is "still in the game" and runs a training gym for MMA "potentials". Most of what I hear about him is in direct contrast to his behavior when training with us. Not positive, sadly.

Part of the "persona"? Maybe. Necessary? Probably not. I think the MMA is, by and large, really better then it is perceived, and more positive then many of its participants lead us to believe. I will have to say that I do enjoy watching it from time to time. Sadly. I feel I have to mute the sound when the "talking" starts.

Just a half of cent, here.
Thank you,
Milt G.

 

[Andrew Green]

Pro fighters are part fighter, part actor.

Their job is not just to fight well and win, but to get people to want to see them fight. The reason people want to see them fight, whether it is they want to see them win, or they want to see them lose doesn't matter. As long as people want to see them fight they get paid, even if they aren't top of the game.

As soon as you put a mic in front of them, many of them are acting. They have a "stage persona", just as comedians, musicians and other performers do.

Personally I don't like the acting, and attempts at adding a 'story', but they are no worse then the acting and attempts to add a 'story' in most kung fu movies, and I enjoy those as well, just not for the acting

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I also think its a bit of both. The mma has made some tma have alook at how they train and look at ways to become more "well rounded" in their training techniques etc. On the down side I think it has taken the 'patience' out of training for some of the younger guys. For a lot of the kids now looking to start im martial arts the first thing they always want to know is how quickly they can get really good. Traditional martial arts can take years and years to get good at and a lot of the kids just want results quickly because they may be 17 years of age and know they cant fight too much beyond 30 so they just dont have the patience to stick with an art for years and years and the idea that it may take 5 or 6 years (or sometimes longer) to get to black belt just really doesnt appeal to them.

 

[Andrew Green]

and the idea that it may take 5 or 6 years (or sometimes longer) to get to black belt just really doesnt appeal to them.

And yet, BJJ has one of the longest "time to black belt" when compared to other styles and it is arguably the art that gained the most out of MMA popularity. So I think you're argument is a little flawed in that respect.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

And yet, BJJ has one of the longest "time to black belt" when compared to other styles and it is arguably the art that gained the most out of MMA popularity. So I think you're argument is a little flawed in that respect.

I know nothing about mma , but would most of the bjj black belts in the mma have trained for those black belts prior to the ufc/mma beginning? I was talking about a young 17 year old now looking to one day join the ufc , by the time he becomes a black belt it would be time to retire.

 

[Xinglu]

I know nothing about mma , but would most of the bjj black belts in the mma have trained for those black belts prior to the ufc/mma beginning? I was talking about a young 17 year old now looking to one day join the ufc , by the time he becomes a black belt it would be time to retire.

Not at all, Randy Couture is a purple belt in BJJ.I would encourage him to wait until he at least has his Blue belt before entering the ring, this should also give him a year to hone his striking skills too!

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Not at all, Randy Couture is a purple belt in BJJ.I would encourage him to wait until he at least has his Blue belt before entering the ring, this should also give him a year to hone his striking skills too!

Please forgive my ignorance as I know absolutely nothing about bjj or mma , but how long/what belt would someone have to have in bjj before it could be effective in the mma against the good fighters? Like hypothetically , if someone in their early 20's decided to take up bjj with the purpose of eventually fighting proffessionally how long would it take for them to be at a level where it would work against other experienced grapplers? Oh, and sorry for veering off topic.

 

[Tez3]

Please forgive my ignorance as I know absolutely nothing about bjj or mma , but how long/what belt would someone have to have in bjj before it could be effective in the mma against the good fighters? Like hypothetically , if someone in their early 20's decided to take up bjj with the purpose of eventually fighting proffessionally how long would it take for them to be at a level where it would work against other experienced grapplers? Oh, and sorry for veering off topic.

Doing BJJ as an art and grading is probably a bit different from doing BJJ and grappling with the intention of fighting.
If you already have a striking art as your core art you should be competent to grapple in about a year if you train regularly, this doesn't mean you will be competent to grade necessarily but will be able to start fighting. If starting fighting it should be at least in semi pro rules against similiar novice fighters, you can't jump straight into pro fighting. Training and learning is ongoing in MMA, you are always looking to learn.
It also depends like all martial arts on how much time you have to train and what other arts you have under your belt. We've had lads have their first fight in six months but this was in the amateur division against beginners like themselves, they were usually kickboxers, boxers or karateka as well. I can be a good learning experience in its self. Depends what you are looking to do really. Sorry thats a bit vague.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

thanks for the info. So if , for instance, a really good muay thai fighter who knew no bjj at all wanted to fight mma do you think a year of solid training in bjj would be enough to get him started at a decent level , even against a good grappler or would the grappler just destroy him? Again , sorrry for my ignorance , I just have no idea how quickly someone can get competent at bjj.

 

[Tez3]

thanks for the info. So if , for instance, a really good muay thai fighter who knew no bjj at all wanted to fight mma do you think a year of solid training in bjj would be enough to get him started at a decent level , even against a good grappler or would the grappler just destroy him? Again , sorrry for my ignorance , I just have no idea how quickly someone can get competent at bjj.

Tbh it doesn't have to be BJJ, it can also be Judo or wrestling, perhaps a mixture of all three which is what we do. The best thing is to get an MMA coach who is experienced in teaching what you need and who will also and this is important get you the fights you need to make a career if thats what you want.Even if you don't want a career and want just to have a few fights it's still important to get a good coach. It's vitally important that you fight the right people and have the right tactics for those people. You can be BJJ blackbelt with black belts in karate but if you don't have the right coach it means nothing.

 

[Xinglu]

Tez gave you good info, what matters is that you have a good trainer. I have seen solid standup fighters demolish grapplers, I have seen solid grapplers destroy stand up fighters. It comes down to the fighters and their trainers and how well they've prepared.

I want to repeat that it should take about a year to get an understanding of the ground game for the ring. That means that you probably won't want to go rolling with the experience grapplers in the ring, rather that you know the escapes and can make them play your game.

Being competent in any MA is variable, are we talking competent against other trained people (which I have assumed in my answer) or competent on the street against mostly untrained people. As you can imagine, even someone with three months of training has an advantage against the untrained, especially on the ground.

 

[Steve]

Please forgive my ignorance as I know absolutely nothing about bjj or mma , but how long/what belt would someone have to have in bjj before it could be effective in the mma against the good fighters? Like hypothetically , if someone in their early 20's decided to take up bjj with the purpose of eventually fighting proffessionally how long would it take for them to be at a level where it would work against other experienced grapplers? Oh, and sorry for veering off topic.

It would depend upon previous experience and individual drive and talent. I can tell you that a young guy trains at my school, came off the street with no previous training and is extremely talented and motivated. He wasn't allowed to take an amateur MMA fight until he had his blue belt in BJJ and his striking/MMA coach said he was ready. That was just over a year after training. It was three years and a purple belt in BJJ before he took his first professional MMA fight and he's still learning a ton all the time.

 

[MJS]

I also think its a bit of both. The mma has made some tma have alook at how they train and look at ways to become more "well rounded" in their training techniques etc. On the down side I think it has taken the 'patience' out of training for some of the younger guys. For a lot of the kids now looking to start im martial arts the first thing they always want to know is how quickly they can get really good. Traditional martial arts can take years and years to get good at and a lot of the kids just want results quickly because they may be 17 years of age and know they cant fight too much beyond 30 so they just dont have the patience to stick with an art for years and years and the idea that it may take 5 or 6 years (or sometimes longer) to get to black belt just really doesnt appeal to them.

I still don't see how someone could think that al they need is a short amount of time to be good. I mean, even arts like Krav Maga, which IMO, utlilizes the KISS principle, still doesnt mean that if someone spend 3 mos. that they're going to be at BB level.

This is one of the downsides of the arts in todays world...nobody wants to put in the blood, sweat and tears that it really takes to get good in an art. I have to agree with Andrew....BJJ is one of the longest time frames, yet look at its popularity.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

BJJ is one of the longest time frames, yet look at its popularity.

Most commercial "karate" schools would do well to take notice of this. This is how I remember karate being many years ago. If you had a blue belt or a purple belt, man, you were really something. A brown belt was hotter than a third dan in most modern commercial Karate/TKD schools and a black belt was the definition of shock and awe. A second or third dan was shock and awe accompanied by fear and trembling, and a fourth dan or higher was like Daehan Park in Best of the Best.

BJJ still has that mentality and is doing quite well.

Daniel

 

[Xinglu]

I still don't see how someone could think that al they need is a short amount of time to be good. I mean, even arts like Krav Maga, which IMO, utlilizes the KISS principle, still doesnt mean that if someone spend 3 mos. that they're going to be at BB level.

Not BB level. Competent against an untrained attacker? Sure! Some one who seriously studies anything for three months has an advantage over your average joe.

This is one of the downsides of the arts in todays world...nobody wants to put in the blood, sweat and tears that it really takes to get good in an art. I have to agree with Andrew....BJJ is one of the longest time frames, yet look at its popularity.

It used to be that a BB meant you were "one tough mutha." Now days, not always so. It's sad. My Xingyi teacher told me that you can get rich teaching MA, but to do so you must sacrifice things. In most cases (not all) it is the quality of student produced.

 

[Xinglu]

Most commercial "karate" schools would do well to take notice of this. This is how I remember karate being many years ago. If you had a blue belt or a purple belt, man, you were really something. A brown belt was hotter than a third dan in most modern commercial Karate/TKD schools and a black belt was the definition of shock and awe. A second or third dan was shock and awe accompanied by fear and trembling, and a fourth dan or higher was like Daehan Park in Best of the Best.

BJJ still has that mentality and is doing quite well.

Daniel

Exactly! But - they didn't have 30 plus students in a class either, they might have had 30 students total in their school! Now it seems like a lot of people are more about $$$ instead of producing highly skilled students. My hat's off to BJJ who are somehow managing to make decent money and still produce skilled students.

 

[Steve]

Exactly! But - they didn't have 30 plus students in a class either, they might have had 30 students total in their school! Now it seems like a lot of people are more about $$$ instead of producing highly skilled students. My hat's off to BJJ who are somehow managing to make decent money and still produce skilled students.

No mystery to me. It's fun, effective, and practical. And there's this thing that not all martial artists like, but keeps standards consistent. It rhymes with shmompetition.