Do you feel guilty?

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Elizium

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Here are a few questions that you can all answer to.

When someone gets hurt by you in an accident, do you end up with guilt and negative feelings over what happened?

Or maybe enter into a relationship which goes wrong and that person leaves.

Has anyone experienced this. Even though the first question is part and parcel of learning, like the person was told to move and did something else. Did you or do you still feel guilt over the incedent.

The other question can lead to a heap load of trouble so is it better to have relationships within a dojo environment, knowing that it may end up losing student/s due to their actions.

Your thoughts please.
 

tshadowchaser

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I have hurt one student badly (tore his knee up ac.and mc., posteria and anteria ) all in one correctly placed kick to his thigh. Put him out of work for 6 months ( well they really gave him a desk job for that amount of time).
How did I fell at the time? I didn't know the amount of amage so I made him get up and fight some more. He learned to overcome pain to survive.
How did i fell about it latter when I learned how bad it was. Sorry for any $$$ problmes it might bring upon him and sorry he got in some small trouble with his boss about it. Glad I found out where and how hard to strike the point but not happy it had to be on a friend.
How do I feel now? I learned from it. I also learned that some things may happen for the better even though they sem bad at the time. He learned new skills working bhind the desk that made it possible for him to obtain a better paying job
 

DeLamar.J

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I feel very guilty if I accidently hurt someone. It hampers by training alot of the time not wanting to hurt people. But if I feel someone deserves it, I will put them in the hospital with no regrets.
 

Zepp

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I always feel bad when I clock a training partner harder than I'm supposed to. But I haven't yet hurt someone badly enough to prevent them from continuing the session. Hope I can keep that record.

My instructor has accidentally bloodied my nose a couple times. He was really apologetic over it, both times. It's wasn't really his fault, especially since my nose just tends to go like a faucet sometimes. (I figure it's my secret weapon,- ya know, like a gecko shooting blood from it's eyes at predators.)
 
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markulous

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We spar a lot, full contact, with minimum equipment, and 99% of the time, if there is an instance where we get hurt, the person that got hurt is at fault. Because of bad form, or not dodging a strike or resisting when they should be flowing, etc etc. There really isn't any guilt at all.

If it's someone on the street, there is NO guilt. I don't want to hurt someone but I do what I gotta do.
 

DeLamar.J

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markulous said:
We spar a lot, full contact, with minimum equipment, and 99% of the time, if there is an instance where we get hurt, the person that got hurt is at fault. Because of bad form, or not dodging a strike or resisting when they should be flowing, etc etc. There really isn't any guilt at all.

If it's someone on the street, there is NO guilt. I don't want to hurt someone but I do what I gotta do.
On the street there is no guilt. I hear this quite often,and it is true, but when you are training, you are there to become a better fighter and to make your training partner a better fighter, not to hurt them.
I understand that in order to be ready for a real fight that there has to be some contact, but we all have to go to work, or school the next day. Its ok to train hard, but it is also just as important not to cross that line of respecting your fellow martial artists, and what your going to do in a real situation.
 

Fight with attitude

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I don't feel guilty when I hit a training partner to hard. I do feel bad though.

Guilt implys that I meant to do something that I later regret. I don't mean to hit my training partner hard but when I do I don't think it's my or there fault. No one can have perfect techique 100% of the time. Even though I do try to control all my punches...some things are just out of anybodys control and if something bad happens that I can't control I don't worry about it.

This is not to say that I don't care about my training partners. I am friends with some of them and I do feel bad if I punched them to hard..just not guilty
 

MichiganTKD

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When we had black belt class, or when two black belts are practicing, the implication was that if something happened, it was the chance you took when practicing. I am not advocating black belts beat each others' brains in, but black belt practice carries a risk with it. I never felt guilty because it was two trained fighters practicing. Sometimes thing happen.
Black belt to color belt, the black belt is always in charge and in control. Even if the color belt is being a jerk he is still a color belt and black belts must always use control when practicing with them. I always felt a little guilty when contacting them because of the rank differential. Never had serious accidents though. Our Instructor used to get highly agitated if he felt black belts were contacting color belts too strongly.
As for someone outside, I go by the philosophy that human beings are not punching bags. Use the force necessary to defend yourself and no more. It is wrong to contact an aggressor more than you need to just because you can. I'm not saying don't defend yourself, but I get the feeling that some people would beat the snot out of an aggressor to show him the error of his ways, which wouldn't make them any better.
 

deadhand31

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I'm the school's calamity. I tend to break things (and people) wherever I go. First accident I had was when we were working on hip throws. Now, we know that NORMALLY a person twists diagonally, allowing somebody to roll off of your hip. Well, in my high-white belt newness, I hadn't grasped that concept yet. Not to mention I'm a very big guy who can throw his weight around. Anyway, instead of twisting, and rolling him off my hip, I bent my back straight down, and launched him into the ground. This ended up seperating a few of his ribs from his spine. I felt VERY guilty after that. It was made even worse because he was acting waaaaaay too nice about it.

In a word, yes, I felt guilty about it. However, later I realized that accidents do happen, and it is a part of learning. Since then, I have not thrown someone incorrectly, and have been a lot more controlled.

If only I could say the same for when I made a whole in the wall the shape of my instructor's son...... :uhyeah:
 

MichiganTKD

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God, of all the people to do that to...
I never had to worry about doing that to our Instructor's son. He was usually one step ahead of us and really fast.
 

satans.barber

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I've hurt people before, but at our club we usually laugh it off. Accidents do happen; unless you're running a Tai Chi school before long someone's going to get hurt...

It only becomes a problem when it's the same person who's hurting people all the time, then they have no control and that's an issue to be dealt with.

The odd accidents that happen are just a factor of the training, if we were so careful as to avoid them beyond doubt, the training wouldn't be realistic enough to be effective. You do have to make some contact to learn your targets and distances properly in my opinion.

Ian.
 

MJS

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markulous said:
We spar a lot, full contact, with minimum equipment, and 99% of the time, if there is an instance where we get hurt, the person that got hurt is at fault. Because of bad form, or not dodging a strike or resisting when they should be flowing, etc etc. There really isn't any guilt at all.

The person that got hit is at fault because of bad form?? I would think that the person doing the hitting is just as much to blame for not having enough control themselves. While there is always going to be a certain amount of contact and yes, injuries do happen, keep in mind that the injury might not have happened if the person throwing the shot, as I said before, used better control.

If it's someone on the street, there is NO guilt. I don't want to hurt someone but I do what I gotta do.

Still keep in mind that you are going to have to justify your actions, no matter who it is.

Mike
 

hardheadjarhead

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I feel awful when I hurt someone unintentionally.


I feel the same when one of my students/instructors hurt someone unintentionally. It goes with the territory when one runs a school, I guess.

Probably why my hair fell out.



Regards,


Steve
 

dearnis.com

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If I recklessly hurt someone, yes. But that has been many years. If one student hurts another because I wasn't paying enough attention...even worse. If I cause an uke or training partner momentary pain...sorry, cost of admission. Or, as a training partner/close friend once said to me "I don't mind the pain; that is how you teach me. You better not damage me though!!"
 

terryl965

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Absolutely, as being part of the black belt family we must show controlwhen we sparr. If you are a black belt than you should be able to control yourpower speed and mind, now in atournament full contact it goes with the territory of competition. Remember under belts that are stronger and bigger still have little control so we must always show the way.... GOD BLESS AMERICA
 
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markulous

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MJS said:
The person that got hit is at fault because of bad form?? I would think that the person doing the hitting is just as much to blame for not having enough control themselves. While there is always going to be a certain amount of contact and yes, injuries do happen, keep in mind that the injury might not have happened if the person throwing the shot, as I said before, used better control.

Mike
I will make up some examples:

Example 1: My Sifu and I are sparring, I drop my hands to throw a haymaker, my sifu pops me in the nose and blood starts coming out. That is my fault for dropping my hands. He probably just taught me a lesson or 2 I will never forget.

Example 2: Againt we are sparring and he muay thai kicks my knee and when I fall my head doesn't hit the mat it hits the cement and I get a concucssion. It's not his fault for kicking me, it's mine for not dodging or blocking his kick and not tumbling right.

I would rather get the s*** kicked out of me in the training room than on the street. And it's not like he will just stomp the heck out of me. If I tap out he lets go, if I am unable to defend myself and can't get up or something he will stop and we will reset.
 
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rmcrobertson

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What's described here is not toughness.

I cannot see a good reason for a teacher to lose control and whack a student in the face hard enough to draw blood. And I cannot see why a good teacher would allow a student to risk slamming their head on cement, or anything else for that matter.

A good teacher of martial arts is supposed to know what's going on around them, and what's going on inside them, so that they a) do not lose control like this, and b) maintain their situational awareness in moments when students cannot.

A teacher who cannot do these things should damn well feel guilty. And, I might add, we would all be better off if every time we got into a fight and won we felt a little guilty for having been stupid and inept enough to let things go that far.
 
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markulous

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rmcrobertson said:
What's described here is not toughness.

I cannot see a good reason for a teacher to lose control and whack a student in the face hard enough to draw blood. And I cannot see why a good teacher would allow a student to risk slamming their head on cement, or anything else for that matter.

A good teacher of martial arts is supposed to know what's going on around them, and what's going on inside them, so that they a) do not lose control like this, and b) maintain their situational awareness in moments when students cannot.

A teacher who cannot do these things should damn well feel guilty. And, I might add, we would all be better off if every time we got into a fight and won we felt a little guilty for having been stupid and inept enough to let things go that far.

We don't train like your typical "karate dojo". We train like boxers or guys in the ufc. Have you ever been to a boxing gym? All there is in there is blood and sweat. If getting a bloody lip or having a bruise on my cheek makes me not get my butt kicked in the street I will take that.
 
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rmcrobertson

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You didn't describe a boxing gym, or a bruise, or a fat lip. You described a teacher belting a student in the schnozzola for no good reason, and inflicting a concussion. And you described a teacher with little control or awareness.

Especially in the case of the concussion, this is not toughness. It's stupidity...by the rules of professional boxing, even, which sharply limit boxer's fights after concussions.

By all means "train," that way if you like. And by all means leap to the conclusion that everyone else is a weenie.

However, you are still describing training in ways that are guaranteed to cause permanent injury, so that you will be prepared for the possibility that you might get hurt in the proverbial street.
 

TigerWoman

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I've on occasion kicked guys in the groin thankfully with cups on, but it still made me feel bad. I was a lower level and my kicks were lower.

Another time, I was a green belt and was sparring another woman orange belt, and somehow during the match, I hit her knee accidently which resulted in some major damage. She eventually came back about a year later and continued a little while. Her knee still was giving her trouble and she dropped out. I felt bad that the match we had was the cause for her pain and eventually leaving TKD. About a year after that, in the same school, which was out of town, I dislocated my knee and that resulted in down time for me and the start of my knee trouble.

I think if you partake in this martial art that there is an inherent risk for stuff like this to happen. I lost count of the injuries that I have had, but luckily not so serious that I couldn't continue. Thank God. TW
 
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