Are there people you won't teach?

[Joab]

If you feel uncomfortable with a certain student, feel he's the type of guy who likes to hurt people or too immature to handle the responsiblity that comes with learning martial arts skills will you refuse to teach them? Do you have a certain kind of screening process that a prospective student needs to go through before you will teach him, even if it's an informal conversation involving questions regarding his employment and the like? If he has a certain tough guy attitude about him will you refuse to teach him?

One teacher I had did all that and even made you sign a statement that you wouldn't use the skills learned to do anything illegal and would conduct yourself as a responsible citizen, never looking for trouble, or words to that effect due to the drastic nature of the techniques taught, most of which maimed or killed. Do any of the teachers here require such a signed statement? He even looked at your driver's license, premsumably to make sure you are who you say you are, do any of you do that? It seems to me a good thing not to teach anyone who enters a school, only those who appear to be responsible citizens.

 

[terryl965]

There have been certain people I would not teach because of various reasons and I am sure there will be more as time goes on.

 

[MJS]

If you feel uncomfortable with a certain student, feel he's the type of guy who likes to hurt people or too immature to handle the responsiblity that comes with learning martial arts skills will you refuse to teach them? Do you have a certain kind of screening process that a prospective student needs to go through before you will teach him, even if it's an informal conversation involving questions regarding his employment and the like? If he has a certain tough guy attitude about him will you refuse to teach him?

Sure, there have been people that I wasn't crazy about teaching, however, I usually ended up teaching them anyways. If someone was that out of control, either I or the head inst. of the school would speak to them. Of course, there have been times, usually during sparring, when you have someone who just can't seem to follow the rules. Usually for a round or two, they'd be paired up with one of the black belts, for a 'humbling' sparring session. That was usually enough to solve that and future problems.

Usually all new students are given a school handbook with the rules. For the most part, with the exception of a few, things have gone smooth with new students. As I said, anyone who was not following them, was spoken to. If it was a repeat issue, they were pretty much told that they need to adhere to the rules or they would be asked to leave the school.

One teacher I had did all that and even made you sign a statement that you wouldn't use the skills learned to do anything illegal and would conduct yourself as a responsible citizen, never looking for trouble, or words to that effect due to the drastic nature of the techniques taught, most of which maimed or killed. Do any of the teachers here require such a signed statement? He even looked at your driver's license, premsumably to make sure you are who you say you are, do any of you do that? It seems to me a good thing not to teach anyone who enters a school, only those who appear to be responsible citizens.

Usually all schools have students sign something, usually a waiver for liability. Kids are usually told what they should/should not use their training for. Its usually assumed that this doesnt need to be said to an adult, as one would figure they'd know better. However, if there were issues, they'd be taken care of.

 

[Tez3]

We don't require anyone to sign anything nor do we screen anyone, they screen themselves. If anyone comes into an MMA club expecting to learn how to be a bully they are sadly mistaken and learn very quickly that it's probably not what they are looking for. The only thing we check is health, even then there's very few conditions that would stop someone training it may just need a doctors letter to help us.
Everyone in that adults class is treated as such even the teenagers and all respond to that. We don't preach, we teach people to fight and through that we end up with the most repsonsible respectful students I've seen yet in my martial arts journey.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Absolutely!

I teach people that I enjoy teaching. There have been a number of people who for what ever reason I refused to teach. (those reasons are really unimportant) In the end it is my time and effort and I enjoy teaching good, wholesome people who are interested in personal protection skills so that they can protect themselves and their families.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

I have kicked students out of my class due to them starting fights at their schools.
Also, I have had people call me and ask if "there are any blacks in my class" (sadly, I am not kidding). I told those 2 callers to find a different school where their racist attitude might fit in better.

AoG

 

[Bruno@MT]

I am not a teacher so it doesn't apply to me.

But in the Genbukan, in order to sign up you need to hand over something called 'proof of good behavior and morals' which is basically a summary of your criminal record. Anyone can get one at their county of residence. Similar things exist in other countries.

It should be blank, or at least not contain anything serious. Also, you are expected to obey the laws, not do anything illegal, and you have to sign for agreement with these rules.

 

[searcher]

Yes, I have had some that I refused to teach.

I usually have all students on a "trial" basis for the first few months to see what they are about. I am not very concerned about their past, unless it effects the present or future. All of my students understand that they can be kicked out at any time and not allowed to come back.

 

[geezer]

One teacher I had did all that and even made you sign a statement that you wouldn't use the skills learned to do anything illegal and would conduct yourself as a responsible citizen, never looking for trouble, or words to that effect due to the drastic nature of the techniques taught, most of which maimed or killed. Do any of the teachers here require such a signed statement?

Hmmm. I'll bet that does a lot of good. Sign a statement. Now think about that. Suppose you are a criminal with no morals. I guess you wouldn't be able to sign that statement. It would be (gasp) lying!

OK, seriously, we've all me some total gits that nobody wants to teach or train with. Fortunately, they don't usually hang around too long. As for the borderline cases, especially the young ones, sometimes the process of training helps them mature and outgrow their bullying, jerk-wad behavior.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Hmmm. I'll bet that does a lot of good. Sign a statement. Now think about that. Suppose you are a criminal with no morals. I guess you wouldn't be able to sign that statement. It would be (gasp) lying!

That is not the point. By signing you have legally agreed to the rules. So if you ever get caught doing something naughty (whatever it may be) then the organization can kick you out without recourse.

Your signature is important for when they want to apply any of the given rules to you in the future. Without it, certain actions like kicking you out after you've paid your membership / insurance / grading / etc fees could be legally tricky without written agreement.

With your signature, they only have to produce their copy of the membership contract and say 'You agreed with this, now sod off' and that will be the legal end of it.

 

[jks9199]

Absolutely!

I teach people that I enjoy teaching. There have been a number of people who for what ever reason I refused to teach. (those reasons are really unimportant) In the end it is my time and effort and I enjoy teaching good, wholesome people who are interested in personal protection skills so that they can protect themselves and their families.

Kind of similar. If I really distrust someone's attitude or maturity... they probably aren't going to be someone that wants to stick around and train, anyway.

 

[redantstyle]

i only teach people i like. plus i keep em on a restricted diet until i figure out if they are going to stay or not. and some might turn out to be bad apples, too.

i've found that i dont care for the majority of potential students, and i wont train them simply because they dont work hard enough. that's a way bigger problem than loose cannons.

 

[stickarts]

I reserve the right to send someone on their way if I feel they are dangerous, disrespectful, or just not adhereing to our expectations. It has happened a few times in the 16 years I have owned my school. I am also protective of my staff. We are there to serve the community but we are not there to be abused by anyone.

 

[arnisador]

Since I teach knife-fighting...yeah, I think twice.

 

[Sukerkin]

I have to say that on the whole, the majority of bad apples who try to get martial arts training soon leave when they realise that it's a long road and a hard one to get anywhere.

It is also true that some unpleasant types have the will to stick the course and the guile to hide their natures.

The counterpoint to that is that most sensei's worth the name are also good at 'reading' people (that being one of the subliminal skills inherent in martial arts) and soon pick out the ones attempting to 'play the game' to their advantage.

I can't say that, in something like thirty odd years of training, I have ever seen anyone 'kicked out' but I have seen attrition rates in the order of 90% or more. I am therefore assuming that most, if not all, of the 'duplicitous students' went out with the rest.

 

[seasoned]

There is nothing more gratifying then a student with enthusiasm and drive, with a sponge like mentality. Then there are the ones that just want to take. It doesn't take long for either to surface.

 

[Ronin74]

Training has a way of sifting through the students that deserve to learn and those that don't. Sadly, there have been students I turned down, but usually those kinds quit after the intro lesson.

As for reasons, I've never had a student instigate trouble, but I've always warned them that if I ever caught wind of them mis-using the art or starting trouble in the name of the art, then that was the end of their training.

I've also cut off a student for attending class while he was high. I don't have anything against people getting high on their own time, but I won't tolerate it training.

 

[girlbug2]

Perhaps I'll find out that this wasn't the right thread to post my little anecdote, but here for the record:

My dh recently started BJJ with a lot of encouragement from me. He's a Karate black belt but he'd been out of training for quite some time and needed something to help him get back into shape...(friends of mine at KM were always telling me about BJJ, so it seemed like it would be just the thing for him).

Just last week however I heard a horror story from one of my friends about a certain guy at that dojo whom I'll call "Big Dan". In the interest of having me warn my dh about this person they told me the following: Big Dan and a couple of his buddies come in to train at the fight classes specifically to have a chance to beat up on the other students who are already worn out from attending earlier classes. My friends each had experiences with Big Dan or one of his friends taking the training to an inappropriate level of violence with them which got them minor injuries. They could also smell something on those guys which my friend said he was certain was the smell of crank. Big Dan and his posse come in high on occasion--dialated pupils being an obvious sign.

The instructors have to know what's going on if the students do, but it's considered bad form to rat on other students or complain because they feel it makes them "look like (insert p word here)". Apparently Big Dan and crew have not been reprimanded in any way, they have been getting away with what I consider to be this outrageous behavior for quite some time. One theory is that it's a Brazilian tradition to take in bad guys and reform them, and once a student is taken in they are not thrown out because they're almost like family. Another theory is that the instructor simply doesn't want to lose their money.

Is "reformation through training" really a custom in Brazil? Or is that just a lame excuse for a badly run dojo?

In any case I did warn my dh about Big Dan! Hopefully he'll know what to do if he ever has to roll with Big Dan...he's smart and innovative martial artist, he knows dirty tricks he could resort to to defend himself if need be. Still, this Dan guy sounds dangerous and I worry.
And now I wish I'd never pushed the whole BJJ thing to begin with.

 

[jks9199]

If they're coming into class high -- the instructor should be kicking them out, at least until they're straight. To tolerate their presence is dangerous to the other students... Irresponsible and unacceptable.

If they're coming in to beat on guys who are already tired... that too should be dealt with. There are lots of ways to address this... like requiring that you attend the earlier class to come to the fight class. Or, if you're a little mean, by ensuring that they have some fresh opponents.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Perhaps I'll find out that this wasn't the right thread to post my little anecdote, but here for the record:

My dh recently started BJJ with a lot of encouragement from me. He's a Karate black belt but he'd been out of training for quite some time and needed something to help him get back into shape...(friends of mine at KM were always telling me about BJJ, so it seemed like it would be just the thing for him).

Just last week however I heard a horror story from one of my friends about a certain guy at that dojo whom I'll call "Big Dan". In the interest of having me warn my dh about this person they told me the following: Big Dan and a couple of his buddies come in to train at the fight classes specifically to have a chance to beat up on the other students who are already worn out from attending earlier classes. My friends each had experiences with Big Dan or one of his friends taking the training to an inappropriate level of violence with them which got them minor injuries. They could also smell something on those guys which my friend said he was certain was the smell of crank. Big Dan and his posse come in high on occasion--dialated pupils being an obvious sign.

The instructors have to know what's going on if the students do, but it's considered bad form to rat on other students or complain because they feel it makes them "look like (insert p word here)". Apparently Big Dan and crew have not been reprimanded in any way, they have been getting away with what I consider to be this outrageous behavior for quite some time. One theory is that it's a Brazilian tradition to take in bad guys and reform them, and once a student is taken in they are not thrown out because they're almost like family. Another theory is that the instructor simply doesn't want to lose their money.

Is "reformation through training" really a custom in Brazil? Or is that just a lame excuse for a badly run dojo?

In any case I did warn my dh about Big Dan! Hopefully he'll know what to do if he ever has to roll with Big Dan...he's smart and innovative martial artist, he knows dirty tricks he could resort to to defend himself if need be. Still, this Dan guy sounds dangerous and I worry.
And now I wish I'd never pushed the whole BJJ thing to begin with.

Yes that is irresponsible behavior! I have experienced some thing like this before though at a BJJ training hall. Fortunately the guy's coming in later did not have the skills yet to compete well with us.