2nd blue tip on my black belt
- Thread starter Michael89
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Rumy73
Black Belt
Ahh the tests between tests, $$$$$$ bilking students.
I'm a little confused by this. Now granted, I've never achieved any rank of significance so I do not know what it is like to be a black belt in any system.
I thought once a student achieved a first degree black belt in an art, they demonstrated that they had the capabilities to begin their journey to 2nd degree black without all the intermediary steps required for either pedagogical or motivational reasons. My impression was this is one of the delineations between the yudansha and mudansha. Isn't this also one of the reasons why being a 1st degree black belt is like being a white belt all over again?
I thought once a student achieved a first degree black belt in an art, they demonstrated that they had the capabilities to begin their journey to 2nd degree black without all the intermediary steps required for either pedagogical or motivational reasons. My impression was this is one of the delineations between the yudansha and mudansha. Isn't this also one of the reasons why being a 1st degree black belt is like being a white belt all over again?
One of two things are happening here. Either they have the black belt requirements all laid out for each level of black, as my particular group does, or it is a way of cleaning up the motion of their existing black belts. Either way, I don't see the problem. Short term goals rock; however, It does keep you feeding from the trough, and as Carol indicated, you are supposed to have been fed. LOL
Every group does it differently! I don't "test" per se. I have a small group and work several times with each student each class. When they're ready, I just promote them.
Depends on the system, sometimes on the age of the black belt in question, the program or school... and in my more cynical moments, the size of the school owner's boat payment...
Don't see a major problem with it -- unless it's because of that last reason.
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Michael89
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each dojang are different and I just have the black belt requirements all laid out for each level of black. My grandmaster use color tips after you get first dan black belt. He is 4nd dan in Shito-ryu karate during his time in Japan but is 9th dan in Kukki-taekwondo and Jido Kwan. well next week, I will get to learn how to use Sai weapons.
oftheherd1
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Congratulations.
I wouldn't be too concerned about some of the comments above. You know how good your school is and how much you are actually learning.
While some of us aren't in favor of schools that appear to give out rank too quickly, or appear to have more tests that necessary, from your post we can't determine for sure if that is the case. If you are happy, continue studying and getting better.
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Michael89
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thanks, thats mean alot to me. I think every 8 week will be enough time for me to train if i'm not ready then I won't take it then. its took me 4 years to earn my black belt (only because I missed out the tests due to sick or family issues) I remember the time my friend(hes the best at what he do) offered me to join other taekwondo dojang and earn black belt in year. I turned that offer down because I didn't like what i saw in there in 07. plus that dojang closed 3 years ago.
While I don't personally care for the constant testing and stars and stripes and bars and bands on belts, especially for the yudanja, it's certainly common enough in commercial schools. The bills have to be paid, and this is one way to do it. Unless the fees/test structure is a secret, it's up to you to decide if what you're getting from the program is worth what you're paying.
Congrats on your test.
And from his post you know enough about his school to accuse his instructors of being thieves? Seems a bit strong, considering that you really can't possibly know that much about his program.
Time to rank is another one of those things that varies wildly. In our program, average time to 1st Dan is 6-8 years. It really depends on just what exactly "1st Dan" means in your system.
Jaeimseu
3rd Black Belt
I'd like to offer up the possibility that one motive for the "check-up" tests between dans is to help make sure a student is consistently training.
It's also a way to break up a dan test fee into smaller parts to make it more manageable for the student (or if you're a cynic, a way to hide the true cost of promotion).
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It's also a way to break up a dan test fee into smaller parts to make it more manageable for the student (or if you're a cynic, a way to hide the true cost of promotion).
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We do that the same way we do it for the colored belts. By watching them in class.
Sort of a layaway plan for your belt. I could see that.
Rumy73
Black Belt
Again, what are monthly dues for? Again what is the walloping $600 plus bb for? For god's sake, a student who is going to class should be checked on already. It is bilking plain and simple. Once a person realizes the ma is not about belts, and gets over the ego of the bb, the better he will be. And lots of money saved. You of all ppl should know the kkw does not require these "tests" and that it is purely commercial.
Jaeimseu
3rd Black Belt
Kkw doesn't require them, true enough. Our dojang uses these types of tests, though. It gives people something to work for, it reminds them that they are being evaluated, it keeps them in front of other students and demonstrates what they will be capable of in the future.
We don't charge $600 for promotion, however.
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sfs982000
Master Black Belt
Congrats!
Congrats! Good luck on your journey to 2nd dan.
Doing mini-tests between dan rankings gets a lot of complaints from some people, but I think it has it's place, especially if your dan curriculum and test includes more than what KKW requires, which I think is pretty common. Having smaller goals to meet every few months is a good way to help motivate people and track their progress. Even if theoretically somebody who's reached 1st dan shouldn't need that, and maybe they don't need need it, it can help. Anyway, if it makes you happy and works for you, don't worry about it.
Doing mini-tests between dan rankings gets a lot of complaints from some people, but I think it has it's place, especially if your dan curriculum and test includes more than what KKW requires, which I think is pretty common. Having smaller goals to meet every few months is a good way to help motivate people and track their progress. Even if theoretically somebody who's reached 1st dan shouldn't need that, and maybe they don't need need it, it can help. Anyway, if it makes you happy and works for you, don't worry about it.
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Michael89
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I learn that now and I didn't mean to start debate in here..damn lol. i always thought color tips was part of Japanese black belt system which my grandmaster have 4th black belt in Shito Ryu Karate during his time in Japan. he also have 9th dan in KKW and Jido Kwan(he been taking taekwondo since age of 14 in 1955 and he is from South Korea.) I learned how to use Bo staff and I will learn how to use sai weapon, i know that most TKD Dojang doesn't teach weapons. he teaches Taeguk and palgwe poomses, up on 2nd dan black belt he will teach ITF forms which i can't wait to learn and he also teach hapkido part of self defense system. test fee isn't much, i only take test when I'm ready. unlike other dojang where I live in that close down 3 years ago. I really don't like that "Master" because I felt like he shot me down for lack of knowledge about "Kwans" he yells at his students, will strip of their rank if he/she forget one techquenes. that school doesn't teach alot much compares to dojang i go to. I enjoy it, I learn alot. it saved my life few time.
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Is there a fee, beyond the normal tuition, associated with the mini-Dan tests? This is aimed at the OP, but could also go for anyone that does/has this practice in their school. If so, how much is the fee and how many mini tests are there before the next Dan level.
Rumy73
Black Belt
Ksd,
Typically, a student pays monthly dues, and in addition, mini test fees and then bb dan test. Usually there are 1 to 8 (sometimes 10) of these mini tests. Some schools try to claim that the mini tests also include "weapons training." While it is well and good that a student learns staff, nunchucks, et cetera, why is it costing more? The simple answer is that people are so into getting a bb and have come so far, they usually suck it up and pay. The mini tests have nothing to do with anything set forth by the kkw. Their only guideline is for time in class at each dan level followed by a successfully completed test, which is reasonable. Somewhere along the way, a dojo owner decided each bb level could be subdivided and a mini tests issued. Just like the way regular belts have been subdivided with strips. While there is a reasonable argument to made about giving students short term goals, this position is both subverted and perverted by the actual cost of it all. I continue to ask and none of these folks defend schools with such models have ever had a cogent retort to my basic question: what do monthly dues cover? If one is attending class and learning reasonably, why are there these paid mini-check ins? It is about money. It is shameful, really, because when a student has reached the level bb, a huge investment on many levels has been made.
