Does a 2-year TKD black belt know TKD better than a 10-year BJJ black belt knows BJJ?

[skribs108]

Before I get into this post, I want to make it clear that I very greatly appreciate both TKD and BJJ. The two arts are probably the most important arts in my personal journey. I have a 4th degree black belt in TKD with over a dozen years of formal training. For the past 3 years (and some change) I've been heavily invested in BJJ, including recently earning my purple belt, actively competing, and becoming a coach in the kid's classes.

One thing I've heard for a very long time -long before I started BJJ- is how much more a black belt means in BJJ than in TKD. And it's true. It does take significantly longer and even more mat hours to get your black belt in BJJ. I think most black belts take over 10 years of training 3-5 days per week (often more than double that) in order to get their black belt. It generally takes 1000-3000 mat hours to get your black belt in BJJ. Compare that to TKD, where it's probably 2-3 years average going 2-3 classes per week, in which case you're looking at around 100-300 hours to get there.

It takes 5x the time and 10x the mat hours to get there in BJJ than it does in TKD.

But...how much does a fresh BJJ black belt know about BJJ, compared with a fresh TKD black belt and their knowledge of TKD?

BJJ is a very, very complicated martial art. In my opinion even more complicated than MMA. I know that's a hot take, but I don't think it's a hot take that BJJ has greater breadth of knowledge than the vast majority of other martial arts. There are so many positions that have their own set of concepts and principles, and so many different objectives you may have while in any one position (and you have to learn top and bottom versions of both) that it's very difficult to keep track of it all. In fact, even though I'm already halfway to black belt, there are entire positions that I still struggle with and entire technique suites that I have barely even touched.

• I navigate the leg entanglements by tapping out.
• The only thing I could tell you about north/south (top or bottom) is I try to get back to side control because at least I know those.
• I still can't tell you which one is a darce or an anaconda choke, or which one you want to roll into our roll away from (both as the choker and the chokee).
• I've never done a foot sweep
• I only know one of the -oplata moves
• I still have no idea how to berimbolo

Some of these are fundamental positions, especially the leg entanglements will become much more important for me when I get brown belt. And yet, I haven't even touched them yet.

Compare this with when I was halfway to black belt in Taekwondo. In TKD, I consider the forms and kicks to be the biggest focus of the art. I already knew how to do pretty much all of the techniques in the forms, and knew 90% of the kicks and very well how to execute them.

If you look at how much there is to learn for a TKD black belt, it's pretty easy for them to get tons of reps for each of the techniques over time. There's maybe a dozen kicks to learn from a single position (standing). It's faster to rep a kick 10 times than to rep a grappling technique 10 times. Especially when you factor in that:

• Grappling techniques take somewhat longer to execute
• Grappling techniques take significantly longer to reset
• Grappling techniques MUST be drilled by half the class at a time, where kicks can often be drilled all together, such as with shadow kicking or bag work
• Grappling techniques can't be practiced at home unless you have a person able to help, striking techniques can be practiced with shadow kicking or a bag (I know grappling dummies exist, but they can't provide the leverage you need to properly practice technique)

Where a TKD student may practice a thousand kicks or more per class, a BJJ student will probably get less than 100 reps of any technique during class.

On top of that, how many techniques are there to practice? In TKD you have a dozen kicks. There's more positions than that in BJJ. There's more variations of some positions. Especially when you consider top and bottom. Oh, and most white belts and even some blue belts are going to spend 90% of their rolls just practicing surviving under mount.

I think that while it does take a significantly higher investment to get a black belt in BJJ, and it certainly deserves to be as prestigious as it is, I think an art with a much narrower scope giving a black belt for a much narrower amount of time makes sense.

 

[O'Malley96]

I think it's a bit of a moot point. Even if we leave aside the issue of execution (which naturally improves over time in both arts) your question assumes that we have an idea of what knowing 100% of either art looks like, but how do you even define that?
I understand that individual positions/situations are easier to identify in BJJ than in TKD, but I'd suspect that a person with 10y of TKD experience has a much more nuanced understanding of their art than a person who's just 2y in. Just like an experienced BJJ practitioner knows better about a given position (including transitions, attacks and defenses), an experienced TKD practitioner will know better about a given kick (setups, combos, variations, ranges, footwork, angles, etc.). Also, striking typically involves more nuanced movement than ground grappling, where the positions are more static. As for whether the 10y TKD practitioner knows their own art more or less than the 10y BJJ practitioner, it would depend on how you measure knowledge; and on the practitioners involved.

On the issue of rank, different ranks mean different things to different people. Japanese highschoolers get their black belt in a couple of years, while in the West it typically takes 4 years for karate/judo, and over 8 for aikido. I know guys with the same rank but vastly different technical abilities, and I have technically a higher rank in aikido than one of the people whose seminars I pay to attend.

 

[wab25]

Couple of things here:

1. A person who studies a subject for 10 years will know that subject better than a person who studies a subject for 2 years. It does not matter what that subject is. So, a person who studied BJJ for 10 years, will know more about BJJ than a person who studied TKD for 2 years knows about TKD. But, the reverse is also true... a person who studies TKD for 10 years will know more than a person who studies BJJ for 2 years, about their respective arts. Its not just a matter of repetitions.... but also the mental energy spent in studying and trying to understand.

2. This statement is quite bold:

but I don't think it's a hot take that BJJ has greater breadth of knowledge than the vast majority of other martial arts

Judo for example has the ground game, a bit different yes, but many of the same positions... but they also learn 65 throws... kata versions and randori versions.... plus transitions from those 65 throws into the same set of ground positions.... Other forms of Jujitsu have ground game, throwing game, stand up game, striking game and weapons.... Many of the CMAs will cover the same breadth....

The biggest difference between BJJ and other arts, is the method of training, not the content that they train..... and also the depth that they go to, in the content that they train.

3. Learn some foot sweeps! They are very fun and very useful. If you are ever down in Orlando, swing by, I can teach you a number of good foot sweeps.... You can show me a few kicks or guard passes... (assuming you are talking about foot sweeps as a take down, and not some sweep from the guard position )

 

[skribs108]

1. A person who studies a subject for 10 years will know that subject better than a person who studies a subject for 2 years. It does not matter what that subject is. So, a person who studied BJJ for 10 years, will know more about BJJ than a person who studied TKD for 2 years knows about TKD. But, the reverse is also true... a person who studies TKD for 10 years will know more than a person who studies BJJ for 2 years, about their respective arts. Its not just a matter of repetitions.... but also the mental energy spent in studying and trying to understand.

The analogy I'm going to make is a bit hyperbolic, and may seem to insult TKD, but it's to help make the point I'm trying to make. Let's take someone who spent 1 hour reading The Cat in the Hat and someone who spent 1 hour reading The Silmarillion. Who is going to have a better understanding of the respective work?

You could read The Cat in the Hat several times in that time span, but the vast majority of readers wouldn't even make it a quarter the way through The Silmarillion. So while the later might be more mature, in terms of the time it takes to understand the material, it's significantly faster with the Dr. Seuss book.

Similarly, look at certain professions. How long does it take for someone to be a qualified teller at a grocery store checkout stand, vs. how long does it take someone to be a qualified pediatrician? I've known tellers who are incredibly knowledgeable about every aspect of the store, including administration, where every item is located, the codes for every produce item, etc. They can get that level of skill faster than most pediatricians will complete their undergraduate degree, let alone get their MD and complete the additional certifications.

Judo for example has the ground game, a bit different yes, but many of the same positions... but they also learn 65 throws... kata versions and randori versions.... plus transitions from those 65 throws into the same set of ground positions.... Other forms of Jujitsu have ground game, throwing game, stand up game, striking game and weapons.... Many of the CMAs will cover the same breadth....

The difference is in Judo you get stood up after a short period of time, so you don't have as much time to develop into much of the ground game that BJJ is known for. Even then, I did say "the vast majority of other arts", so if there are some arts that cover that breadth, then that's not necessarily proving my statement wrong.

In terms of what you can learn in BJJ and how relevant it is to the rest of the art, BJJ has a tremendous amount of breadth.

 

[wab25]

The analogy I'm going to make is a bit hyperbolic, and may seem to insult TKD, but it's to help make the point I'm trying to make. Let's take someone who spent 1 hour reading The Cat in the Hat and someone who spent 1 hour reading The Silmarillion. Who is going to have a better understanding of the respective work?

You could read The Cat in the Hat several times in that time span, but the vast majority of readers wouldn't even make it a quarter the way through The Silmarillion. So while the later might be more mature, in terms of the time it takes to understand the material, it's significantly faster with the Dr. Seuss book.

First off, I don't think the two arts differ by the magnitude of the two books.... but I get your point. That said, here is where we get semantical.... Studying is different than reading. There is more to studying Cat and the Hat than just reading the text. Studying the author, learning the context in which the author worked in, learning what his goal with the text was, why he was choosing that audience, that method, what effects were brought about by his work, what influence his work had.....

Similarly, look at certain professions. How long does it take for someone to be a qualified teller at a grocery store checkout stand, vs. how long does it take someone to be a qualified pediatrician? I've known tellers who are incredibly knowledgeable about every aspect of the store, including administration, where every item is located, the codes for every produce item, etc. They can get that level of skill faster than most pediatricians will complete their undergraduate degree, let alone get their MD and complete the additional certifications.

Again, semantics... sure, it takes different amounts of time to get to basic competency in performing tasks.... also, different jobs require different levels of understanding. One job, grocery teller, is fine to just do through rote memory, other jobs like being a medical doctor... you do not want them doing things by rote even though their job requires lots of things to be memorized.... But even the most simplest job can be studied in depth.... and people do in order to make things more efficient, more ergonomical, or even automated.... We have all met that one martial artist who has trained for a zillion years, because they like the people, the like the exercise, they like the social status.... they can even wave their arms as well as anyone else.... but they have no clue about what they are doing and could not fight their way out of a wet paper bag, let alone and actual person.

The difference is in Judo you get stood up after a short period of time, so you don't have as much time to develop into much of the ground game that BJJ is known for. Even then, I did say "the vast majority of other arts", so if there are some arts that cover that breadth, then that's not necessarily proving my statement wrong.

In terms of what you can learn in BJJ and how relevant it is to the rest of the art, BJJ has a tremendous amount of breadth.

We may be using breadth differently.... I am using breadth as the number of different things. I would argue that Aikido has more breadth that BJJ. Aikido does have ground work and pins, knee work, stand up, striking, and weapons work. BJJ by contrast focuses on ground work, here BJJ goes very deep, which they can afford to do as they do not take time learning sword work or Jo work. I used Judo as an example.... but there are a ton of arts that cover ground work up through standing striking and weapons... all of these have more breadth than BJJ. BJJ has a specialization in ground work and a different training modality. Yes, you can enumerate a lot of different things that BJJ studies.... but they are mostly in the ground game. If you wanted to, you could enumerate the same number of things that any art studies.... Remember your calculus.... there are an infinite number of points between any two points..... it is just a question of how many you choose to enumerate.

 

[Tez3]

The difference is in Judo you get stood up after a short period of time, so you don't have as much time to develop into much of the ground game that BJJ is known for. Even then, I did say "the vast majority of other arts", so if there are some arts that cover that breadth, then that's not necessarily proving my statement wrong.

In terms of what you can learn in BJJ and how relevant it is to the rest of the art, BJJ has a tremendous amount of breadth.

This is one of those infuriating 'Olympic rules' things, it was changed to make it easier for the spectating non Judokas to watch without getting bored after 2 minutes Judo as taught by our instructor was 'old fashioned' we grappled a lot, easily as much as we did in BJJ. The big difference was not giving up your back in BJJ as you could in Judo, that and being able to choke someone with their own Gi jacket in Judo as well as grinding the knot in your belt in their face.

 

[drop bear110]

There should always be infinite meta.

I mean a boxer has about 4 punches. But you never learned all of boxing

 

[isshinryuronin]

There should always be infinite meta.

I mean a boxer has about 4 punches. But you never learned all of boxing

4 punches. 16 2-punch combos. Left and right sides=32. a couple of angles each combo, 64. Some simple timing variation and you have at least 128 variants of attack with a 2-punch combo. Then, throw in some feints. Make it a 3-move combo and the possibilities explode beyond my mathematical skills (that's probably already been passed). Throw in the psychological game and there's enough to keep you busy learning and practicing for years. That's just using hands. Add kicks, elbows, grabs and more targets and there are endless possibilities. to beat you.

Combat with an opponent is a very personal relationship. It is primal and complex. It is fought on the physical, mental and spiritual levels. I think this is the addictive part, I think, for many in MA - the total immersion of self. Not a lot can compare to it.

 

[HighKick1]

Before I get into this post, I want to make it clear that I very greatly appreciate both TKD and BJJ. The two arts are probably the most important arts in my personal journey. I have a 4th degree black belt in TKD with over a dozen years of formal training. For the past 3 years (and some change) I've been heavily invested in BJJ, including recently earning my purple belt, actively competing, and becoming a coach in the kid's classes.

One thing I've heard for a very long time -long before I started BJJ- is how much more a black belt means in BJJ than in TKD. And it's true. It does take significantly longer and even more mat hours to get your black belt in BJJ. I think most black belts take over 10 years of training 3-5 days per week (often more than double that) in order to get their black belt. It generally takes 1000-3000 mat hours to get your black belt in BJJ. Compare that to TKD, where it's probably 2-3 years average going 2-3 classes per week, in which case you're looking at around 100-300 hours to get there.

It takes 5x the time and 10x the mat hours to get there in BJJ than it does in TKD.

But...how much does a fresh BJJ black belt know about BJJ, compared with a fresh TKD black belt and their knowledge of TKD?

BJJ is a very, very complicated martial art. In my opinion even more complicated than MMA. I know that's a hot take, but I don't think it's a hot take that BJJ has greater breadth of knowledge than the vast majority of other martial arts. There are so many positions that have their own set of concepts and principles, and so many different objectives you may have while in any one position (and you have to learn top and bottom versions of both) that it's very difficult to keep track of it all. In fact, even though I'm already halfway to black belt, there are entire positions that I still struggle with and entire technique suites that I have barely even touched.

• I navigate the leg entanglements by tapping out.
• The only thing I could tell you about north/south (top or bottom) is I try to get back to side control because at least I know those.
• I still can't tell you which one is a darce or an anaconda choke, or which one you want to roll into our roll away from (both as the choker and the chokee).
• I've never done a foot sweep
• I only know one of the -oplata moves
• I still have no idea how to berimbolo

Some of these are fundamental positions, especially the leg entanglements will become much more important for me when I get brown belt. And yet, I haven't even touched them yet.

Compare this with when I was halfway to black belt in Taekwondo. In TKD, I consider the forms and kicks to be the biggest focus of the art. I already knew how to do pretty much all of the techniques in the forms, and knew 90% of the kicks and very well how to execute them.

If you look at how much there is to learn for a TKD black belt, it's pretty easy for them to get tons of reps for each of the techniques over time. There's maybe a dozen kicks to learn from a single position (standing). It's faster to rep a kick 10 times than to rep a grappling technique 10 times. Especially when you factor in that:

• Grappling techniques take somewhat longer to execute
• Grappling techniques take significantly longer to reset
• Grappling techniques MUST be drilled by half the class at a time, where kicks can often be drilled all together, such as with shadow kicking or bag work
• Grappling techniques can't be practiced at home unless you have a person able to help, striking techniques can be practiced with shadow kicking or a bag (I know grappling dummies exist, but they can't provide the leverage you need to properly practice technique)

Where a TKD student may practice a thousand kicks or more per class, a BJJ student will probably get less than 100 reps of any technique during class.

On top of that, how many techniques are there to practice? In TKD you have a dozen kicks. There's more positions than that in BJJ. There's more variations of some positions. Especially when you consider top and bottom. Oh, and most white belts and even some blue belts are going to spend 90% of their rolls just practicing surviving under mount.

I think that while it does take a significantly higher investment to get a black belt in BJJ, and it certainly deserves to be as prestigious as it is, I think an art with a much narrower scope giving a black belt for a much narrower amount of time makes sense.

***I have never practiced BJJ. I did wrestle in high school and college and we have always integrated rolling elements into our TKD program so I have some solid understanding of grappling.
I fully agree that BJJ can be a complex MA. More so for some than others. If you look at each MA style as models and compartmentalize, it can be easier to understand much of the time difference. There are just more complex, dependent movements in BJJ. A good, and bad thing. BJJ is narrow in focus and scope, but how you get there is more counter-intuitive for most. TKD can be/is more coarse in scope, especially in the beginning. And a person absolutely must consider the commercial way belts are used. I should say over-commercialized. At the end of the day, they don't mean dick for those who are really invested in learning and, it has always been a constant that you cannot compare belt distribution across styles. Just never going to be apples to apples.
TKD can be done in a more coarse application and still be very effective. For example, there and dozens of ways to do a front kick where even-though the kick may not be 'technically' correct, it is still extremely potent. Learning that there is much more than 'one way' is part of the advanced aspect of TKD. It still amazes me how many people cannot make this leap in thought process. They diligently and doggedly learn the curriculum and pass all the tests, but miss the nuggets and value-add aspects. Like slightly changing a kick for a given purpose.
So, while you can make a list of TKD techniques and think it is a short list, in reality and application, you have barely scratched the surface.

 

[skribs108]

4 punches. 16 2-punch combos. Left and right sides=32. a couple of angles each combo, 64. Some simple timing variation and you have at least 128 variants of attack with a 2-punch combo. Then, throw in some feints. Make it a 3-move combo and the possibilities explode beyond my mathematical skills (that's probably already been passed).

But...do the same math for all of the different positions and techniques in BJJ. You're not starting at 4. You're starting probably in the high 2-digits, maybe even 3 digits. That's before variations. That's before 2-technique sequences. That's before factoring in gi vs. no-gi and how that completely changes some positions or techniques.

Boxing has jab, cross, hook, uppercut (and a few others, I'd say body hooks and overhands at least).

Jiu-jitsu has:

• Positions:
  • Standup, turtle (front headlock, referee position)
  • Guards: closed guard, half guard (including knee shield, K guard, deep half guard), open guards (including butterfly guard, de la riva guard, X guard, SLX, reverse de la riva, shin-to-shin, crab ride), and gi guards (including double sleeve, sleeve-and-collar, spider guard, lasso guard, worm guard). I've probably missed a bunch. Then you can combine things together, like spider-lasso or lasso + deep de la riva.
  • Leg entanglements, including inside ashi, outside ashi, ashi garemi, double trouble, 50/50
  • Dominant positions: side control, kesa gateme, knee-on-belly, north/south, mount, back
  • Fun positions like the crucifix or boston crab
• Positional concepts, such as:
  • Underhook and overhook
  • Frames and cross-face
  • Basic movements such as shrimp, butt scoot, technical get-up, tripod, shuffle, etc.
• Techniques:
  • Standup: pull guard (in several ways, including into balloon sweeps), at least a dozen take-downs, and a few submissions
  • Guards: so many sweeps and quite a few submissions, including several armbars, collar chokes, lapel chokes triangle chokes, omoplata (and a few other -oplata)
  • Leg entanglements: ankle lock, toe hold, heel hook, kneebar
  • Guard passes: shuffle pass, toreondo pass, backstep, knee cut, reverse knee cut, pressure pass, stack pass, double under, cartwheel pass, body lock pass, throw-by pass, double-leg pass, tripod, and a few I'm forgetting
  • Submissions from dominant positions: armbar, mounted triangle, arm triangle, collar chokes, reverse triangle, wristlocks, bow-and-arrow choke, RNC, and quite a few others
  • Escapes from dominant positions
  • Defense against submissions

Your first number in boxing before you start exponentially increasing is 6. You need to cube that to get to the first level of the techniques in BJJ. And the branches from each technique when you get to the second level grow significantly.

 

[wab25]

Your first number in boxing before you start exponentially increasing is 6.

Sure... if you ignore most of boxing....

Types of Guards

The way boxers position their hands in their stance is called their guard, and every guard has its strengths and weaknesses. This article will give you an overview of the different types of guards …

straight2boxing.com

This article explains 6 different types of guards used in boxing. Each can be done orthodox or south paw. Then you factor in the range: long, medium and short. Then there are multiple strategies that can be used with each of these.

Saying there are only 6 things to learn in boxing is like saying there are only two things to learn in BJJ: top game and bottom game. So boxing has 3 times as many things to learn before you start exponentially increasing....

Yes, boxing is focus on just stand up and just hitting. But, these days, similar can be said of many BJJ places... they focus on just ground game... Both of these arts however, go to great depths within their area of focus.

 

[skribs108]

This article explains 6 different types of guards used in boxing. Each can be done orthodox or south paw. Then you factor in the range: long, medium and short. Then there are multiple strategies that can be used with each of these.

Okay...there's as many different types of grip situations you might find yourself in any of the dozens of BJJ positions, and they often have different principles if you are in different positions. It also changes from gi to no-gi.

For example, in the standup, I can grip:

• My opponent's sleeve with a cliffhanger grip
• My opponent's sleeve with a pistol grip
• My opponent's sleeve near the elbow
• My opponent's gi under the armpit
• My opponent's gi with an overhook reaching to the armpit
• My opponent's wrist with an underhand grip
• My opponent's wrist with an overhand grip
• My opponent's tricep with an underhand grip
• My opponent's bicep from the inside
• My opponent's bicep from the outside
• My opponent's head
• My opponent's belt with an underhook
• My opponent's belt with an overhook
• My opponent's collar
• Underhook without material
• Overhook without material
• Any of these grips can be done same-side or cross side, and can be combined together into over a hundred different grip combinations.

This does not factor in grips on the legs when attempting take-downs or grips from behind when setting up the rear body lock. Nor does it factor in the number of grip combinations when you start factoring in guards and dominant positions.

Again, by going to this next level of detail, you've added 6 items for boxing, and you've added in thousands more items for BJJ. Even if you factor it into 36 using both sides and different ranges, that's still significantly lower than the number of possibilities for different grip combinations than you have in BJJ.

 

[O'Malley96]

Okay...there's as many different types of grip situations you might find yourself in any of the dozens of BJJ positions, and they often have different principles if you are in different positions. It also changes from gi to no-gi.

For example, in the standup, I can grip:

• My opponent's sleeve with a cliffhanger grip
• My opponent's sleeve with a pistol grip
• My opponent's sleeve near the elbow
• My opponent's gi under the armpit
• My opponent's gi with an overhook reaching to the armpit
• My opponent's wrist with an underhand grip
• My opponent's wrist with an overhand grip
• My opponent's tricep with an underhand grip
• My opponent's bicep from the inside
• My opponent's bicep from the outside
• My opponent's head
• My opponent's belt with an underhook
• My opponent's belt with an overhook
• My opponent's collar
• Underhook without material
• Overhook without material
• Any of these grips can be done same-side or cross side, and can be combined together into over a hundred different grip combinations.

This does not factor in grips on the legs when attempting take-downs or grips from behind when setting up the rear body lock. Nor does it factor in the number of grip combinations when you start factoring in guards and dominant positions.

Again, by going to this next level of detail, you've added 6 items for boxing, and you've added in thousands more items for BJJ. Even if you factor it into 36 using both sides and different ranges, that's still significantly lower than the number of possibilities for different grip combinations than you have in BJJ.

Do you know of anyone who's learned all of boxing? If yes, who?
If no, then how do you compare infinites quantitatively?

 

[skribs108]

Do you know of anyone who's learned all of boxing? If yes, who?
If no, then how do you compare infinites quantitatively?

To what level?

You can teach someone the major guards, punches, footwork, and concepts to a basic level in a month or a few months. You could teach someone how to be reasonably effective (compared to an untrained person) in the main position of boxing (standup) in a week or a month.

They may not be effective vs. someone with more training. But they will at least know how to do what you need to do in boxing, and can get finer and finer details from that point.

In BJJ, it's going to take far longer just to teach someone how to get into and out of all of the various positions, let alone using all of the techniques from those positions. Case in point: I've been going 5-6 days per week for well over 3 years now, and there's still a handful of positions that I don't even understand and techniques I don't even bother with.

It's like the difference between learning to read Spanish vs. learning to read traditional Chinese. Spanish has 30 characters, and phonetically they're consistent. Traditional Chinese has thousands, if not tens or even hundreds of thousands of characters. You can teach someone to read Spanish words a lot quicker than Chinese. Yes, there's more to language than just that, but getting past step 1 is significantly faster with Spanish.

 

[MadMartigan100]

My answer to the title question would be a simple no.

Leaving aside the difference of opinion that 2 years should be enough to earn a black belt in any system (in my style, 2 years is barely long enough for a motivated student to reach blue belt); regardless, 2 years of knowledge into a subject cannot compare to 10-12 years of knowledge.

At 2 years in TKD, yes that is plenty of time to memorize the basic function of the primary types of kicks and punches, but barely scratches the surface on understanding how to properly execute them... let alone timing, setups, and other tactics involved with making them work.

The vast number of possible grips and setups in BJJ is a never-ending path. You are correct that a new black belt could not possibly have mastered all the possible scenarios. That said, I don't think TKD is so different. The steps involved in setting up proper timing and attack selection are harder to quantify in TKD (as they are somewhat intangible) but very similarly complex to BJJ.

My opinion is that how well someone "knows" their art has far less to do with how many techniques they have accumulated, but on how deep their understanding is into the portions that they do know.

Time with knowledge means so much. A 12 year BJJ black belt knows the fundamentals of their art on a much deeper level than a 2 year student possibly could in any style, regardless of how many moves make up the technical syllabus.

 

[Darren]

Taken TKD for one year, 7 years in kenpo, and bout 2.5 years in BJJ, every art has its strong points and weak points which is to be expected from any thing human, having sparred against several people with varying arts, guess the one that really freaked me out was akeydo(not the way its spelled) but the guy was also a second degree in kenpo too and one of my early instructors, he also had to be a black belt in the afore mention art, i threw two punches to the guys head, what i saw was amazing and made me wonder what the hell i had gotten my self into, somehow he slipped both punches and got in the middle, that is when i backed out very very quick, but it was something to watch i tell ya!

 

[skribs108]

every art has its strong points and weak points

People tend to get upset when I say one art is simpler than another. But really that just means a narrower scope gives you the opportunity to learn the basics faster and dive deeper sooner. It's not a judgment of the simpler art. It's not meant as an insult either. It's merely an observation.

 

[Buka24]

In one, it’s an arduous process.

In one it’s as difficult as opening a fortune cookie.

 

[skribs108]

In one, it’s an arduous process.

In one it’s as difficult as opening a fortune cookie.

Because you can very quickly learn all there is to know about opening a fortune cookie.

 

[philwhite39]

Trying to relate bjj to other arts and saying a belt is more meaningful is a bit absurd. There are plenty of striking arts that take more than 5 years to get to black belt. Not all bjj or tkd schools are the same quality either. What is meaningful is in the eye of the beholder.