One technique per class

[skribs127 148]

IMHO, class time should be spent on partner drills/sparring to learn to apply it against a resisting opponent (with varying degrees based on learning and skill). Practicing forms and techniques should be for home training where a partner is not needed.

In my experience, most folks need to go over forms in class regularly for it to be an effective exercise. When first learning the form, it can take a while before they remember the gross movements correctly. Then it's a matter of going over the finer details. For example, a lot of folks think they have a wide stance when their feet are basically in line with each other. When you tell them to widen their stance, they usually do so in increments of a half inch or so, because either A) they think they're already almost wide enough and don't need much more, or B) they think they're widening a lot more than they are.

It's one thing to practice on your own once you have the form memorized and enough of the details to pass at your level. It's another when folks are still working towards that end.

 

[skribs127 148]

Also, practicing forms in class is a good reality check for students who are only practicing their latest form because "I know the others", and then they forget the others in class.

And it's a good way of checking who's ready for testing by seeing the forms performed in class. At least to check for that specific requirement.

 

[punisher73]

In my experience, most folks need to go over forms in class regularly for it to be an effective exercise. When first learning the form, it can take a while before they remember the gross movements correctly. Then it's a matter of going over the finer details. For example, a lot of folks think they have a wide stance when their feet are basically in line with each other. When you tell them to widen their stance, they usually do so in increments of a half inch or so, because either A) they think they're already almost wide enough and don't need much more, or B) they think they're widening a lot more than they are.

It's one thing to practice on your own once you have the form memorized and enough of the details to pass at your level. It's another when folks are still working towards that end.

It depends on "how" you are teaching the form(s). Break the form into smaller sections and only train those sections with applications in class. Then they take that piece how and practice it. Then the next class review and add the next section etc.

This was the traditional way forms/katas were taught in Okinawa before karate became widespread. It really highlights the difference between the "justsu" aspect versus the "do" aspect of an approach to the art. Do you want applicability first or do you want aesthetic first? It is NOT a right or wrong answer or a judgmental question. Just a question to spark internal dialogue on what and how you want to approach things.

 

[Earl Weiss124 24]

It really highlights the difference between the "justsu" aspect versus the "do" aspect of an approach to the art. Do you want applicability first or do you want aesthetic first? It is NOT a right or wrong answer or a judgmental question. Just a question to spark internal dialogue on what and how you want to approach things.

General Choi would provide similar instructions. Any new movement for a form is taught first. This would include the "Application" or purpose of the move. Once all the new movements were learned, only then should you teach the form.

 

[Darren]

I've been doing BJJ for 3.5 years now. The teaching style is a complete 180 from what I'm used to in TKD.

• TKD: Each belt has a set number of techniques, combos, forms, and self-defense sequences that need to be learned for the test; or has a lot more forms and then is more open about the approach to technique and self-defense. Every class you can expect to drill kicks and practice forms; and you'll probably also drill hand techniques such as blocks and/or punches. You'll likely drill dozens of different techniques and practice multiple forms every class. You can also expect every class as a white belt to be the same as every other white belt class, every class as a red belt to be the same as every other red belt class, and so on.
• BJJ: 95% of the art is open to kids, 97% of the art is open to white belt adults, 98% of the art is open to blue belts, and everything opens at brown. Most classes are focused on white belts of the age group. Every once in a while, blue belts will get instruction on wristlocks, but most colored belt techniques are left for 1-on-1 training. Each class goes into 1, 2, or 3 techniques that you spend 5-10 minutes each on, and then you do various sparring games to work on the position.

I know it's possible to do BJJ more like TKD. There are some BJJ schools that do this: have a codified curriculum for white (and maybe blue). Roy Dean even has his students go through "crucibles" which are belt tests for every belt color, although upper belts it's more them running a seminar and technical demo than a traditional TKD test.

However, I'm curious if it would be possible to teach TKD in this way. Only teach 1, 2, or 3 technique sequences per class. Maybe even have rank progress similar to BJJ: there's no test, you just get a stripe or a belt when the Master determines you're ready based on mat hours, time-in-grade, progress, ability, attitude, etc. This style would likely do away with forms (because long-term memorization of specific sequences would not be the goal or method) and focus on understanding of the technique and the concepts. Each class would be a deep-dive into something like a 1-step sequence, kicking footwork, striking combination, or something to that effect. And then after drilling those, there would be a specific sparring session (a semi-scripted spar where you train the situation against resistance), and then free sparring using normal sparring rules.

This isn't the direction I'm planning to go. It's more a thought experiment.

i started BJJ before i even knew anything about it, just saw a couple of my classmates rolling on the ground stood this for about 1 year then thought i would try it, walked away from my first BJJ class feeling like a sissy, started reading on it after about 1 year and getting my arm ripped off,neck cracked,deeply bruised ribs,knee almost broke in half, etc. i had to relearn everything about fighting, i mean what other art can you sit on your butt while fight or laying on your back fighting? then i read where BJJ is called the gentle art well i been in at least two years and as far as i can tell gentle done forgot about me and went to hell and stayed there! but long story short received my fourth strip on my blue belt yesterday and i love BJJ! as well as my stand up art working on my 1st black in that all is going well seems the first time in my life at 61 years of age??? my mother just died,my father is dying, my cat i recused died and i was never able to establish a career blame some of that on my invisible disabilities what people cant see is what they don`t understand which is fine and everything is going good!!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've been doing BJJ for 3.5 years now. The teaching style is a complete 180 from what I'm used to in TKD.

• TKD: Each belt has a set number of techniques, combos, forms, and self-defense sequences that need to be learned for the test; or has a lot more forms and then is more open about the approach to technique and self-defense. Every class you can expect to drill kicks and practice forms; and you'll probably also drill hand techniques such as blocks and/or punches. You'll likely drill dozens of different techniques and practice multiple forms every class. You can also expect every class as a white belt to be the same as every other white belt class, every class as a red belt to be the same as every other red belt class, and so on.
• BJJ: 95% of the art is open to kids, 97% of the art is open to white belt adults, 98% of the art is open to blue belts, and everything opens at brown. Most classes are focused on white belts of the age group. Every once in a while, blue belts will get instruction on wristlocks, but most colored belt techniques are left for 1-on-1 training. Each class goes into 1, 2, or 3 techniques that you spend 5-10 minutes each on, and then you do various sparring games to work on the position.

I know it's possible to do BJJ more like TKD. There are some BJJ schools that do this: have a codified curriculum for white (and maybe blue). Roy Dean even has his students go through "crucibles" which are belt tests for every belt color, although upper belts it's more them running a seminar and technical demo than a traditional TKD test.

However, I'm curious if it would be possible to teach TKD in this way. Only teach 1, 2, or 3 technique sequences per class. Maybe even have rank progress similar to BJJ: there's no test, you just get a stripe or a belt when the Master determines you're ready based on mat hours, time-in-grade, progress, ability, attitude, etc. This style would likely do away with forms (because long-term memorization of specific sequences would not be the goal or method) and focus on understanding of the technique and the concepts. Each class would be a deep-dive into something like a 1-step sequence, kicking footwork, striking combination, or something to that effect. And then after drilling those, there would be a specific sparring session (a semi-scripted spar where you train the situation against resistance), and then free sparring using normal sparring rules.

This isn't the direction I'm planning to go. It's more a thought experiment.

It would be absolutely possible. I think any art could be taught with either approach, or even a blend of the two. Grappling seems to lend itself less to the idea of teaching several techniques in a single class, because of the complexity. When I was training, it wasn't unusual for an instructor to teach 3-4 kicks (or even more, though that seemed like a lot at once for an art that didn't use kicks that frequently) in a single class, as a student was nearing the point where kicks were expected. I've never seen an instructor attempt to teach more than 2 brand new techniques to a student in a single class, outside of seminars (where the idea was to get an intro to some concepts, rather than learning new techniques).

I certainly favored teaching strikes more progressively. So I'd teach a single punch and some application (at the very least, simple movement and bag exercises), and give the student time to work on it in that class, then maybe add another strike. But never more than a couple of strikes in any class, and then - if there was time left -put them back on reviewing something not new.

 

[skribs127 148]

I am actually considering this again. A kicking-focused class where 90% is focused on TKD-style sparring and 10% is focused on acrobatic jump kicks. The idea would be for it to function very similar to a BJJ class, as a secondary option at a BJJ gym. Overall it would function very similar to BJJ, in that we would have some warmups, drill a few different combinations that focus on a specific concept, have specific sparring that has rules based on that concept, then have general sparring, and maybe some acrobatic kicks at the end.

No forms, no self-defense, no other strikes (than what fits into TKD-style sparring), no board breaking, no weapons. And as such: no belt tests. Simply get stripes/belts based on the instructor's opinions of student progress.

The biggest advantage here is that with no real rote curriculum, it would be easy to find a coach to cover class if needed. I don't need someone trained in my curriculum or in my style of TKD. In fact, it doesn't even need to be TKD - anyone with experience kicking who knows the rules of the sparring can run a class. So if my day job takes me away for a few days, or I'm sick, or something else comes up, class could continue.

The only question then is what to call it, because I feel "Taekwondo" implies forms (because every style of TKD that I'm aware of has forms).

 

[Earl Weiss124 24]

I am actually considering this again. A kicking-focused class where 90% is focused on TKD-style sparring and 10% is focused on acrobatic jump kicks.).

Do to the exertion of Jumping Kicks muscle fatigue can set in rater quickly - At that point the technique will deteriorate and chance of injury increases so it's best to move on to something else.

 

[skribs127 148]

Do to the exertion of Jumping Kicks muscle fatigue can set in rater quickly - At that point the technique will deteriorate and chance of injury increases so it's best to move on to something else.

What exactly is it you're suggesting here?

1. That I should do jump kicks earlier in the class so people aren't fatigued when they start?
2. That I shouldn't do sparring and immediately follow with jumping kicks, but rather have something in-between, so people aren't super tired from sparring before doing jump kicks?
3. That I should just be mindful of how tired folks get during the jump kick drills so not to over-exert them during the drill (and it's position in class or relative to sparring is irrelevant as long as I pay attention to fatigue)?

 

[Earl Weiss124 24]

What exactly is it you're suggesting here?

1. That I should do jump kicks earlier in the class so people aren't fatigued when they start?
2. That I shouldn't do sparring and immediately follow with jumping kicks, but rather have something in-between, so people aren't super tired from sparring before doing jump kicks?
3. That I should just be mindful of how tired folks get during the jump kick drills so not to over-exert them during the drill (and it's position in class or relative to sparring is irrelevant as long as I pay attention to fatigue)?

1. Yes, but some less dynamic but good enough to warm up the muscles should precede it.
2. Yes.
3. That could work Except that I would say everything is relevant. IMO the goal is effective teaching, learning and performing. With the exception of seeing how people perform when fatigued - Their is more efficiency to have them learn and perform as instructed when less fatigued (Mentally and physically) .

I have recently adopted what is used at the BJJ classes - New Stuff - Learning intensity - Maybe 30% speed and Power. Drilling - 70% speed and power , Fighting - 100% . Of course when you tell them a percent that often ramps up quickly.

 

[skribs127 148]

1. Yes, but some less dynamic but good enough to warm up the muscles should precede it.
2. Yes.
3. That could work Except that I would say everything is relevant. IMO the goal is effective teaching, learning and performing. With the exception of seeing how people perform when fatigued - Their is more efficiency to have them learn and perform as instructed when less fatigued (Mentally and physically) .

I have recently adopted what is used at the BJJ classes - New Stuff - Learning intensity - Maybe 30% speed and Power. Drilling - 70% speed and power , Fighting - 100% . Of course when you tell them a percent that often ramps up quickly.

The question then is where it would fit into the natural course of the class.

For example, if I go:

1. Dynamic warmup
2. Technical drills
3. Jump kicks
4. Specific sparring (with the concepts from the technical drills)
5. Free sparring
6. Cool down (probably leg and/or core exercises)
7. Stretching

In that case, going from technical drills to jump kicks to specific sparring means there's a gap between the technical drill and specific sparring, which disconnects the two items that should be connected.

One option would be to have the jump kicks Monday/Tuesday and sparring Wednesday/Thursday (or something like that). But I like the idea of sparring regularly.

 

[skribs127 148]

There is a bit of a cooldown period built in to sparring when people are taking off their gear.

 

[Earl Weiss124 24]

The question then is where it would fit into the natural course of the class.

For example, if I go:

1. Dynamic warmup
2. Technical drills
3. Jump kicks
4. Specific sparring (with the concepts from the technical drills)
5. Free sparring
6. Cool down (probably leg and/or core exercises)
7. Stretching

In that case, going from technical drills to jump kicks to specific sparring means there's a gap between the technical drill and specific sparring, which disconnects the two items that should be connected.

One option would be to have the jump kicks Monday/Tuesday and sparring Wednesday/Thursday (or something like that). But I like the idea of sparring regularly.

Or swap #s 2 &3.

 

[skribs127 148]

Or swap #s 2 &3.

I do see your point, but I still feel the end of class is the best spot for it.

 

[skribs127 148]

Maybe...

1. Dynamic warm-up
2. Basic kicking technique/drill (i.e. break down how to do a spinning back kick)
3. Acrobatic jump kicks
4. Technical drills (in this scenario, focus on setting up or using the spinning back kick)
5. Specific sparring (only back kicks count for points)
6. Free sparring
7. Cool down (leg/core exercises and/or game)
8. Stretching

 

[HighKick]

What exactly is it you're suggesting here?

1. That I should do jump kicks earlier in the class so people aren't fatigued when they start?
2. That I shouldn't do sparring and immediately follow with jumping kicks, but rather have something in-between, so people aren't super tired from sparring before doing jump kicks?
3. That I should just be mindful of how tired folks get during the jump kick drills so not to over-exert them during the drill (and it's position in class or relative to sparring is irrelevant as long as I pay attention to fatigue)?

We mix complex kicks with the rest of the kicks. This gives the lower legs/torso a little break, helps mix them with the other kicks/offensive techniques to see where they may be applicable, and makes the drills flow more like sparring sequences. Admittedly, we do not do the flashy aerobatic kicks very often. We do have a demo team that does them only for demonstrations (but always explain they are for the show and Not very practical).
For certain, it the drills are becoming gassers, be very aware of fatigue and whether or not to keep pushing.

 

[skribs127 148]

A funny thing another thread got me thinking about...while BJJ classes tend to focus on a "move-of-the-week" and TKD classes typically go through the majority of the curriculum on any given day...

BJJ youtube videos typically go through an entire system or concept, where TKD youtube videos tend to focus on a specific kick.

 

[Earl Weiss124 24]

A funny thing another thread got me thinking about...while BJJ classes tend to focus on a "move-of-the-week" and TKD classes typically go through the majority of the curriculum on any given day...

I am clueless as to how it is possible for a TKD class can go thru a majority of the curriculum on any given day - but that is coming from Tk-D frame of reference. Perhaps you can elaborate on your comment.

 

[skribs127 148]

I am clueless as to how it is possible for a TKD class can go thru a majority of the curriculum on any given day - but that is coming from Tk-D frame of reference. Perhaps you can elaborate on your comment.

The curriculum for the belt level the class covers.

At my main school:

• White/yellow belt class: cover basic punches, basic kicks, basic blocks, Kibon 1, yellow belt punch defense.
• Purple/orange belt class: cover basic punches (with a few editions), intermediate kicks, intermediate jump kicks, Kibon 2-5, purple and orange belt punch defense.
• Green belt class: cover advanced punches, advanced kicks, Palgwe 1-3, advanced jump kicks 1-3, green belt punch defense and kick defense
• Blue belt class: cover advanced punches, advanced kicks, Palgwe 1-5, advanced jump kicks 1-5, blue belt punch defense and kick defense
• Red belt class: cover advanced punches, advanced kicks, Palgwe 4-8, advanced jump kicks 1-6, red belt self-defense

Basically 80-90% of what you require to test on is covered every class.

In the other school I briefly attended, students would spend 80% of the class on kicks, and then the last 20% of the class in small groups. Each small group was based on what stripe you're on. No-stripe worked on forms, blue stripe worked on self-defense, green stripe worked on their assigned kick for testing, etc. If you did good that day you got your stripe and moved on. Each student was maybe working on a specific thing, but the class as a whole covered the curriculum.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf127 1]

The curriculum for the belt level the class covers.

At my main school:

• White/yellow belt class: cover basic punches, basic kicks, basic blocks, Kibon 1, yellow belt punch defense.
• Purple/orange belt class: cover basic punches (with a few editions), intermediate kicks, intermediate jump kicks, Kibon 2-5, purple and orange belt punch defense.
• Green belt class: cover advanced punches, advanced kicks, Palgwe 1-3, advanced jump kicks 1-3, green belt punch defense and kick defense
• Blue belt class: cover advanced punches, advanced kicks, Palgwe 1-5, advanced jump kicks 1-5, blue belt punch defense and kick defense
• Red belt class: cover advanced punches, advanced kicks, Palgwe 4-8, advanced jump kicks 1-6, red belt self-defense

Basically 80-90% of what you require to test on is covered every class.

In the other school I briefly attended, students would spend 80% of the class on kicks, and then the last 20% of the class in small groups. Each small group was based on what stripe you're on. No-stripe worked on forms, blue stripe worked on self-defense, green stripe worked on their assigned kick for testing, etc. If you did good that day you got your stripe and moved on. Each student was maybe working on a specific thing, but the class as a whole covered the curriculum.

That makes a lot more sense. I was also confused how the entire curriculum was covered every class.

That said, I'd probably get bored if every class I had to learn/practice the same exact punches, kicks and form for two months, then suddenly just do a bunch of different ones.