Why the hate between TMA and MMA?

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Thing is with sparring is what if you're just training 1 on 1 with a teacher and no one else obviously you wouldn't be able to do much sparring so you'd just learn the technique.

Hmmm... That doesn't ring true to me at all, personally. I did a lot of 1-on-1 sparring with my instructors, and we still had plenty of time to practice our techniques. This is true for Karate (which had katas), Wing Chun (which had taolus), Jujutsu (which had no katas) and Jeet Kune Do (which had no taolus). In each of those systems I did a lot of 1-on-1 training with my teachers, and we did a ton of sparring, just in different ways.

 

[Headhunter]

Hmmm... That doesn't ring true to me at all, personally. I did a lot of 1-on-1 sparring with my instructors, and we still had plenty of time to practice our techniques. This is true for Karate (which had katas), Wing Chun (which had taolus), Jujutsu (which had no katas) and Jeet Kune Do (which had no taolus). In each of those systems I did a lot of 1-on-1 training with my teachers, and we did a ton of sparring, just in different ways.

Good for you

 

[Paul_D]

But the quote above is still wrong in pretty much every conceivable way.

Your inability to understand makes you think it is wrong. As we have established many times, you are unable to understand the difference between fighting and self defence.

Hence, as long as you have a brown hole in your **** you will never understand how and why kata is intended to be used, and that is actually fine. But what isn't fine is when you kata isn't useful for SD when you understand neither kata nor SD.

 

[Paul_D]

According to Paul D, all you need is kata to be "street ready". Plenty of average people perform great looking katas.

Too bad they don't train kata at MMA gyms.

I write in English and without fail every time you see something I haven't written, and don't understand what I have written. You can't be that stupid, so you must just be being deliberately obtuse. Where did I say you "all you need". kata? I said kata doesn't look like sparring because it is for SD and sparring is for fighting.

 

[Headhunter]

Kron Gracie and Mckenzie Dern are both Bjj fighters in MMA. Kron especially makes it a point to use old school Gjj in his fights.

There's also folks like Angela Lee, Ryan Hall, and Damien Maia who are mainly doing Bjj when they're fighting.

Don't know why you rate Mackenzie dern so high. She's a good jiu jitsu styalist but is totally unproven in mma she's 3-0 against nobodies with 2 decisions and missed weight twice. It's far to early to say if she'll be elite or not

 

[Headhunter]

I write in English and without fail every time you see something I haven't written, and don't understand what I have written. You can't be that stupid, so you must just be being deliberately obtuse. Where did I say you "all you need". kata? I said kata doesn't look like sparring because it is for SD and sparring is for fighting.

It's people like Hanzou that make people think that all mma people hate traditional styles

 

[Paul_D]

Are we really going to act like a woman who practices kata all the time is just as capable as MMA fighters

Why would we do that kata isn't for fighting.

The differences have been explained to you many many times by many different people and it is clear you will never understand the difference between fighting and self defence. That's not a problem, the problem is when you tyr to tell th me people who do understand what is and isn't useful for a given situation when you understand neither the given situation nor the tools being applied to it.

 

[Headhunter]

Why would we do that kata isn't for fighting.

The differences have been explained to you many many times by many different people and it is clear you will never understand the difference between fighting and self defence. That's not a problem, the problem is when you tyr to tell th me people who do understand what is and isn't useful for a given situation when you understand neither the given situation nor the tools being applied to it.

Thing is it is true no ones going to defend themselves like they do in a kata but also no ones going to fight in the exact same way they shadow box either. That's all kata is it's shadow boxing. To me it teaches you to go to different angles and not just working straight ahead on the 12 o clock line. It teaches how to go from one movement to the next using transitional stances. It reinforces your basics and makes you work a good stance to keep balance. It teaches co-ordination and fitness all important things in a fight. Also anyone can do kata and use it from any age young or old. For example you're not going to have a 70 year old with a heart problem, arthritis and a dodgy knee doing full contact sparring but they'd still be able to do kata

 

[Headhunter]

I'm on both sides of this. I'm a black belt in kenpo karate and I train Muay Thai and have trained in boxing, kickboxing and bjj and I love all of it. It's all good stuff and all helps. I like the technical approach and fluidity of karate and I like the hard style fitness of Muay Thai.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Paul D hit a nail once.

I'd say he nailed it.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

"I fought a bunch of guys" is almost the definition of unsupported.

I fought a dragon once. An actual fire breathing dragon. Can you beat that?

Well, mine are officially documented through a L.E. agency. If you can say the same about your dragon then sure, you got me beat.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

According to Paul D, all you need is kata to be "street ready".

And also according to me, with the caveat that bunkai is correctly understood and trained.

Too bad they don't train kata at MMA gyms.

Not really required at MMA gyms since the focus is on sporting competitions within a defined rule set. Just like sparring (the normal one-on-one with rules type of sparring) isn't necessary for self defense. Two different goals with two different methodologies. When will you understand this very simple point?

 

[oaktree]

Hmmm... That doesn't ring true to me at all, personally. I did a lot of 1-on-1 sparring with my instructors, and we still had plenty of time to practice our techniques. This is true for Karate (which had katas), Wing Chun (which had taolus), Jujutsu (which had no katas) and Jeet Kune Do (which had no taolus). In each of those systems I did a lot of 1-on-1 training with my teachers, and we did a ton of sparring, just in different ways.

Jujutsu has waza and kata.

 

[drop bear]

Well, mine are officially documented through a L.E. agency. If you can say the same about your dragon then sure, you got me beat.

I can say the same about my dragon. I have the documentation right here. I just cant show it to you.

Can you show me your documentation?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I can say the same about my dragon. I have the documentation right here. I just cant show it to you.

Can you show me your documentation?

Yes I can. Come for a visit and I'll personally drive you down to our administration building and you can sit down and view my personnel record which is public record. It's about a foot thick and covers, in addition to other things like citations and awards, every use-of-force I've had over the last 25+ years.

If I ever come and visit you I'll expect the same.

 

[drop bear]

Not really required at MMA gyms since the focus is on sporting competitions within a defined rule set. Just like sparring (the normal one-on-one with rules type of sparring) isn't necessary for self defense. Two different goals with two different methodologies. When will you understand this very simple point?

Ultimately when it makes any sort of sense.

Ok what I dont get. You have sports fighting. Kicking punching grappling and they have a general sort of method of training to get good at it. Sparring, fitness, skill development. Whatever. The idea being that if a person wanted to kick,punch or wrestle you you have a skill base to stop them.

Now your suggestion is that self defence is so different that you need to adopt a completely different method of preparation. That self defence will not contain kicking punching or grappling and that it will be so far removed from what you would expect in a sports fight that you could not even adapt these concepts to suit a self defence environment.

This is just discounting the tons of evidence of this preparation being used in self defence in everything from news articles to you tube to anecdotal evidence.

This is also discounting that self defence martial artists dont actually have a monopoly on self defence experience.

Instead you have to learn a method that does not seem to have any way of varifying it works at all anywhere. I mean I cant even take your ideas and try them out in the gym with my training partner unscripted because that would be sparring. (sport of course) I cant see any indication it works in self defence. Unless I have missed the news articles "woman stops rape by using bloody kata." And I ultimately have to take your word for it because I have to take your word that you have used it in fights.

If I came up with a concept so ludicrous I would get accused of trolling.

 

[drop bear]

Yes I can. Come for a visit and I'll personally drive you down to our administration building and you can sit down and view my personnel record which is public record. It's about a foot thick and covers, in addition to other things like citations and awards, every use-of-force I've had over the last 25+ years.

If I ever come and visit you I'll expect the same.

Well ditto you come visit. And I will show you the absolute proof I fought a dragon.

Untill then we will just believe both of us are telling the truth.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

IIRC, you are in Great Britain? If so, it is a possibility as I am half-British and have family there. Mostly London and round about there. Not a bad idea actually as the last time I was there was in 1988 so I'm long overdue.

 

[drop bear]

IIRC, you are in Great Britain? If so, it is a possibility as I am half-British and have family there. Mostly London and round about there. Not a bad idea actually as the last time I was there was in 1988 so I'm long overdue.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Now your suggestion is that self defence is so different that you need to adopt a completely different method of preparation.

I've stated this in how many threads? Fifty...a hundred? Yes, different goals require different training.

That self defence will not contain kicking punching or grappling...

Who said that?