What does it mean if someone "can fight" or "can't fight"?

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,288
Reaction score
3,464
Location
Phoenix, AZ
In Chinese wrestling, the fighting spirit is to "act like a tiger and trying to eat your opponent alive".
My old wrestling coach had the same attitude ....as did my big brother. I preferred what you call the "conservative" game.
My coach had been a national champion, my brother: a state champion. I dropped out of wrestling half-way through high school. :confused:

I guess my experience favors your position.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
13,507
Reaction score
4,222
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
My old wrestling coach had the same attitude ....as did my big brother. I preferred what you call the "conservative" game.
My coach had been a national champion, my brother: a state champion. I dropped out of wrestling half-way through high school. :confused:

I guess my experience favors your position.
When I trained my single leg, sometime I commited myself too much and made myself to kiss the dirt. My teacher liked my aggressiveness. He said, "As long as you have the courage to try, one day you will succeed."

My teacher didn't like those who didn't even have the courage to try. One of my students always played defense. When his opponent tried to throw him, he pushed his opponent down. His defense worked most of the time. But my teacher didn't like him and said he won't have any future.
 

GojuTommy

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
569
Reaction score
217
I think its some kind of ineffable combination of fighting spirit or toughness (ie, grit, gameness), physical traits (eg, athleticism, functional strength), and technical ability.

And I think about it as being a spectrum where more of one element can compensate for less of another.

The question is like saying someone can or cannot play the guitar. Well, a lot of people play the guitar. Some people are virtuosos.
Ive gotta really second this.
I dont think you can make any simple objective standards.

Its just one of those things, where you see someone sparring and you can tell they can fight.
Does that mean theyll have a positive record at a local MMA or kickboxing promotion after 2 years of competing? Not necessarily, but youll see them fight and k is they can fight.

At the amateur and local levels there will be a lot of people who can fight, but not necessarily fight well.
After finally getting a few rounds in with people of various sizes and skill levels this past week, and I feel Im still in the former category.
 

GojuTommy

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
569
Reaction score
217
When I trained my single leg, sometime I commited myself too much and made myself to kiss the dirt. My teacher liked my aggressiveness. He said, "As long as you have the courage to try, one day you will succeed."

My teacher didn't like those who didn't even have the courage to try. One of my students always played defense. When his opponent tried to throw him, he pushed his opponent down. His defense worked most of the time. But my teacher didn't like him and said he won't have any future.
The problem with the conservative game is to be successful in the long run you have have succeed in your defense every time. The other person only needs to succeed in their attack a few times.
 

GojuTommy

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
569
Reaction score
217
Those make a point about skill, but they do miss three of the other factors folks have mentioned:
  • ability to do damage
  • willingness to do damage
  • ability to not panic in a confrontation
Im not sure how relevant the first two points actually are.
Working hospital security I got into plenty of fights with violent patients. Didnt need to do much if any damage to get them under control.
 

GojuTommy

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
569
Reaction score
217
"It is said again that when one is surrounded by an enemy hundreds of thousands in strength this form [known as my Self] may be crushed to pieces, but the Mind is mine with which no overwhelming army can have anything to do.

Says Confucius: Even a plain man of the street cannot be deprived of his will.

When however this mind is confused, it turns to be its own enemy. This is all I can explain here, for the masters task cannot go beyond transmitting technique and illustrating the reason for it.

It is yourself who realizes the truth of it. The truth is self-attained, it is transmitted from mind to mind, it is a special transmission outside the scriptural teaching.

There is no willful deviation from traditional teaching, for even the master is powerless in this respect.

Nor is this confined to the study of Zen."
Ive met plenty of people who think they can fight who I know for a fact couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

In fact most people(particularly men) way over estimate their ability to fight.

A survey found 6% of people believe they could beat a grizzly bear in a fight for example.

 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
13,507
Reaction score
4,222
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
If you have knocked/taken down 100 guys in the past, the chance that you may knock/take down the 101 guy will be high.

IMO, the personal record should define whether a person can fight or not.
 

windwalker099

Green Belt
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Messages
156
Reaction score
69
Ive met plenty of people who think they can fight who I know for a fact couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

In fact most people(particularly men) way over estimate their ability to fight.

A survey found 6% of people believe they could beat a grizzly bear in a fight for example.

We have different ideas of what fighting means..

This is what i mean be fighting,,, requires a little training..
The guy sitting down, might not be able to fight his way out of a paper bag,,,
of course he's not fighting with a "paper bag"

IMG_1410-1.jpg




Who do you think "won"

that seems to be what most here are posting about,,,who wins...or who can play and who can't...

Some games, if you lose, there is no tap our, no time out,,,no nothing....
 

windwalker099

Green Belt
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Messages
156
Reaction score
69
If you have knocked/taken down 100 guys in the past, the chance that you may knock/take down the 101 guy will be high.

IMO, the personal record should define whether a person can fight or not.

If they were able to get up,,,what should a person do

What record, against who ?

Other people agreeing to a rule set, with the knowledge,
that at the end of the day, its over....

All a record means is that one has engaged with others,
in something they both agree too and have trained for.

Like the my friend in the Bar, feeling it was a good idea to get down on his back....
fighting from there. No answer for the chair....

Do agree with some of the post regarding "intent"
Why the law talks about "cold blood and hot blood"
ie in the heat of the moment vs, calculated with intent..
 
Last edited:

windwalker099

Green Belt
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Messages
156
Reaction score
69
Is that correct English? :)

I still remember many years ago when I was a waiter. My customer said, "I don't want no sugar." I put a lot of sugar into his coffee.


Happens,,sometimes for different reasons...maybe lucky the customer didn't come back...

 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,338
Reaction score
10,096
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Im not sure how relevant the first two points actually are.
Working hospital security I got into plenty of fights with violent patients. Didnt need to do much if any damage to get them under control.
Good point. There are situations where "fighting" can be all just control and defense, without needing to do damage.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,338
Reaction score
10,096
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Ive met plenty of people who think they can fight who I know for a fact couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

In fact most people(particularly men) way over estimate their ability to fight.

A survey found 6% of people believe they could beat a grizzly bear in a fight for example.

I think I could beat 6% of a grizzly.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,338
Reaction score
10,096
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Is that correct English? :)

I still remember many years ago when I was a waiter. My customer said, "I don't want no sugar." I put a lot of sugar into his coffee.
Idiomatically, "no nothing" in that context is acceptable. Gramatically, it's wrong. But it makes sense to Americans, at least.
 

Argus

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
774
Reaction score
300
Location
Japan
I think I could beat 6% of a grizzly.
You sure it's not that 6% of them carry a gun and rightly think that should at least give them a fighting chance?
Or did the survey specify "in empty hand combat"?
Are improvised weapons allowed?
Have I been charged unprepared or do I have time to grab a large stone or stick? Am I carrying a stick already?
I think I have a >99% chance of avoiding a tussle with a grizzly, a >50% chance of beating one if I have am carrying a firearm, and at least a 6% chance of winning if I'm carrying a pointy stick or a large club, along with a belt knife which would likely be on my person in most environments where one would be most likely to meet a grizzly.
Also, if the answer "yes" is taken to mean that one *could* beat a grizzly at least theoretically, then hey... It's at least possible that I could win even unarmed. I mean, I should have like a 0.000001% chance or something of the grizzly attacking me being old and in bad health and having a heart attack from all of the excitement before it can finish me off! 0.000001% is a lot more than 0%, so I can answer "yes" to this question and I'll be technically correct. :p
 

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
3,257
Reaction score
1,709
Location
Northern California
Today, "can fight" was, "can I pin down a very athletic, very stubborn 35 pound dog (without hurting her) long enough to put her eardrops in."
Technique is key with restraining animals. Typically, you want one person to fail at restraint while giving inadequate direction to their annoyed spouse, who is totally inept at applying ear medications to dogs but expert at applying them to human faces.
 
Top