Who can promote in IBJJF

[HighKick]

I'm not talking about American black belts, I'm talking about American masters (4th degree and up). They're fine with Americans paying the $$ for black belt registrations. They're not as fine with Americans being Masters because they don't think of us as being as good of Masters as Koreans. Although, according to my former Master, this is more in response to China than America, the point still stands.

It's kind of like in the movie The Art of Self-Defense, where the girl wasn't promoted to black belt because "girls can't actually fight" or something like that. They were fine with her teaching kids and being an upper belt. But they weren't fine with promoting her to the top level.

My impression from what I've seen is that Kukkiwon loves to dish out black belts, but hates foreigners being called Master.

I did not click 'disagree' although I should. This is Wildly inaccurate. You are drawing information from a very small pool.

 

[skribs136 156]

I did not click 'disagree' although I should. This is Wildly inaccurate. You are drawing information from a very small pool.

That's kind of the problem. There isn't much information in the TKD community. Every school is an island.

While I like the idea of TKD, training BJJ the last few years has really opened up my mind as to what a martial arts community can be.

 

[HighKick]

That's kind of the problem. There isn't much information in the TKD community. Every school is an island.

While I like the idea of TKD, training BJJ the last few years has really opened up my mind as to what a martial arts community can be.

Again, patently false. I cannot count the Dojangs I worked out at across the country during my work travels (>200). A phone call was usually all it took. Oftentimes, after working out once or twice I could just show up, sometimes (not always) pay a nominal fee and workout.
I am glad you like your BJJ school, sincerely. But trying to zing the TKD community because you were at a bad Dojang is a d**k move. Yes, I know you briefly worked out at another TKD school. You just cannot paint all schools with the same brush.

 

[Andrew Green]

I’m not IBJJF registered, and have no intention of ever being… so I could be wrong on this.

For kids ranks, I don’t think anyone cares. Plenty of blue and purples promote kids.

Generally, most go with a black belt should promote, but if none are available or someone else is the primary coach you can go up to 1 belt bellow yours. IBJJF does have a 2nd degree requirement to promote someone to black belt though, so that one’s a little different.

Outside of the IBJJF rules vary.

Stripes - no one will care. They are rather unofficial. 0 stripes or 4, officially it’s the same rank.

 

[skribs136 156]

But trying to zing the TKD community because you were at a bad Dojang is a d**k move. Yes, I know you briefly worked out at another TKD school. You just cannot paint all schools with the same brush.

It's also based on my experiences within the TKD community online compared to the BJJ community. With BJJ, there's a huge community with tons of content. There's instructional videos that dive into content at pretty much every level, from shorts and reels showcasing innovative techniques to 5-10 minute videos deep-diving into a specific technique or concept to full instructionals that have hours of content on a specific topic. You have tons and tons of Q&A videos, podcasts, etc.

What I've seen with TKD is a handful of folks have tutorials on kicks, and then there's a lot of material covering school-specific items. I see lots of discussions online with BJJ regarding the entirety of the art, whether it's takedowns or submissions or positional gains. But with TKD, I see very little discussion on things like application of self-defense, despite it being a major part of most school's curriculums.

Even on this site, when I ask questions or participate in discussions on the TKD side and the BJJ side, I'm often left frustrated with the attitude of TKD folks. Same on other forums. A lot of the time I get answers that are basically "Well I'm going to teach you by not telling you the answer". And you get people who think that because they're a higher degree they can become your mentor without you even asking them to.

It's not just the one school. It's been a consistent experience within the TKD community.

 

[HighKick]

It's also based on my experiences within the TKD community online compared to the BJJ community. With BJJ, there's a huge community with tons of content. There's instructional videos that dive into content at pretty much every level, from shorts and reels showcasing innovative techniques to 5-10 minute videos deep-diving into a specific technique or concept to full instructionals that have hours of content on a specific topic. You have tons and tons of Q&A videos, podcasts, etc.

What I've seen with TKD is a handful of folks have tutorials on kicks, and then there's a lot of material covering school-specific items. I see lots of discussions online with BJJ regarding the entirety of the art, whether it's takedowns or submissions or positional gains. But with TKD, I see very little discussion on things like application of self-defense, despite it being a major part of most school's curriculums.

Even on this site, when I ask questions or participate in discussions on the TKD side and the BJJ side, I'm often left frustrated with the attitude of TKD folks. Same on other forums. A lot of the time I get answers that are basically "Well I'm going to teach you by not telling you the answer". And you get people who think that because they're a higher degree they can become your mentor without you even asking them to.

It's not just the one school. It's been a consistent experience within the TKD community.

You keep trying to smear until I pushed disagree. I just don't get it. You cannot keep saying false information and lies and expect to have any kind of credibility.
This is patently incorrect, and I am pretty sure you know this. TKD, particularly WT/KKW is an open book. There are Thousands of videos on Youtube (or similar) and instructional content is extremely easy to find. There is no hidden agenda in the larger TKD community. None. In you little part of the TKD world? It does appear so. But like most things in life, that is on you.
Just because your TKD journey did not go the way You thought it should does Not make it bad for the rest of the world. You had a very bad instructor and was at a Very bad school. Hard stop. You went back to that well and tried to short cut the promotion process, WITH THE SAME BAD INSTRUCTOR. Hard stop. It is no wonder you have a bad taste for it, even as self inflicted as it it.

Again, I am glad you are enjoying BJJ. But if I am being honest, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and for you to start smearing it as well.

 

[skribs136 156]

You cannot keep saying false information and lies and expect to have any kind of credibility.

You went back to that well and tried to short cut the promotion process

That's not what happened. I was eligible to test before I left, he chose not to test me. He was upset that I was leaving and refused to test me before I left. When we temporarily rekindled our relationship, the opportunity to test presented itself. I trained for 4 years directly under him before I left, taught classes 15+ hours per week during that time, and learned everything in his curriculum better than he did (in his words, because he didn't practice past 2nd degree).

But by calling me a liar and then saying a falsehood yourself, you've shown yourself to be a hypocrite. If you're going to be both of those things (a liar and a hypocrite), why would I respect anything you have to say?

You're proving my point about TKD. The problem isn't the art, it's the people like you.

 

[HighKick]

That's not what happened. I was eligible to test before I left, he chose not to test me. He was upset that I was leaving and refused to test me before I left. When we temporarily rekindled our relationship, the opportunity to test presented itself. I trained for 4 years directly under him before I left, taught classes 15+ hours per week during that time, and learned everything in his curriculum better than he did (in his words, because he didn't practice past 2nd degree).

But by calling me a liar and then saying a falsehood yourself, you've shown yourself to be a hypocrite. If you're going to be both of those things (a liar and a hypocrite), why would I respect anything you have to say?

You're proving my point about TKD. The problem isn't the art, it's the people like you.

Keep swinging BooBoo. You are stating the truth in black and white. You say 'his curriculum' and that you were better than him (really?) yet he would not test you. That dog doesn't hunt. Not to mention 'his curriculum' was truly his own and does not follow normal, traditional TKD teachings. Something I know you have discovered after the fact but for some reason refuse to fully admit. I am not even going to try to respond to the 2nd degree comment. The say red flags, red flags, red flags, is the epitome of understatement.
When did I call you a liar? You are hearing what you want to hear. When was I a liar when I am simply repeating things you have said or inferred here on the site?

Look, I have zero desire to rehash your bad past with TKD. It is your past and you certainly are not the first person to have a bad experience in a martial art. But you are the Worst I have ever heard seen when it comes to drumming up your past and trying to use a smear campaign to recreate your reality. It borders on surreal sometimes.
And I will viciously defend TKD (or others styles) when someone starts lying and trying spread non-truths. You have got to accept the fact that you were in a very small pool of the TKD community, and not a very good one. Move on from the past and leave it where it belongs, in the past.

Oh, and trying to use the online community as a gauge of quality for any school or style is just silly.

 

[skribs136 156]

You say 'his curriculum' and that you were better than him (really?) yet he would not test you.

I said he said that I was better at his curriculum. Here's an example. Sword Form #1 is something you learn when you're close to 2nd degree, Sword Form #5 is something you learn close to 4th degree. Because he has consistently had black belts at 1st and 2nd degree the entire time I trained under him, he practiced those forms very regularly. He practiced them at least once a month by teaching them to the class. He knew those forms inside-and-out because he kept them front-of-brain.

He only had two people ever get close to 4th degree while I was training under him: me, and one other guy that was at the same rank as me. He never bothered to practice Sword Form #5 until me and this other person were close to 4th degree. Because of that, he barely remembered how to do it, because it had been several years since he worked on it. Every single time he showed it to us, the form was different. Different techniques, different footwork, different order, different details.

I know it was different because I wrote down as he did it one time. He then sent a video (which was different from what I had written down). Then we were learning in class and I said, "That's different from the video." He said he's not practiced it much, and I probably knew it better than him. Why? Not because I'm inherently better than him. Because in the last several years, I've spent more time on it than he has. Because neither of us had touched it for several years, but I was practicing several times per day at home, and he was only doing it when I was in class.

This isn't me saying, "Oh look how good I am." This is me saying that if during the previous several years, neither of us have practiced a form; and during the last few months he's done the form five times and I've practiced it 50 times, I probably have a better idea what's going on in the form than he does.

And it's something you see in BJJ, where some coaches have a better understanding of certain positions or styles than others. My Professor is a guard-puller, and we have coaches who have high-level high school and college wrestling backgrounds, who are much better at take-downs than he is. That doesn't mean anything against him or what we learn from him, but it does show where people's strengths are. Memorizing the TKD curriculum was a strength of mine.

Oh, and trying to use the online community as a gauge of quality for any school or style is just silly.

It's definitely an aspect of it. I've learned quite a bit from the online BJJ community, including my current go-to submission.

If you're saying it's a silly element to include, it sounds like you're just not happy with the comparison, and it's easier on your ego to exclude it.

When did I call you a liar? You are hearing what you want to hear. When was I a liar when I am simply repeating things you have said or inferred here on the site?

You cannot keep saying false information and lies and expect to have any kind of credibility.

You outright said I'm saying false information and lying. That's why I said you called me a liar.

You're badly misrepresenting what I say and making totally wild inferences and assumptions based on it. You make the worst-faith arguments about the things I say. That's why I said you were lying.

If instead your problem is incredibly poor reading comprehension, then I apologize.

 

[HighKick]

I said he said that I was better at his curriculum. Here's an example. Sword Form #1 is something you learn when you're close to 2nd degree, Sword Form #5 is something you learn close to 4th degree. Because he has consistently had black belts at 1st and 2nd degree the entire time I trained under him, he practiced those forms very regularly. He practiced them at least once a month by teaching them to the class. He knew those forms inside-and-out because he kept them front-of-brain.

He only had two people ever get close to 4th degree while I was training under him: me, and one other guy that was at the same rank as me. He never bothered to practice Sword Form #5 until me and this other person were close to 4th degree. Because of that, he barely remembered how to do it, because it had been several years since he worked on it. Every single time he showed it to us, the form was different. Different techniques, different footwork, different order, different details.

I know it was different because I wrote down as he did it one time. He then sent a video (which was different from what I had written down). Then we were learning in class and I said, "That's different from the video." He said he's not practiced it much, and I probably knew it better than him. Why? Not because I'm inherently better than him. Because in the last several years, I've spent more time on it than he has. Because neither of us had touched it for several years, but I was practicing several times per day at home, and he was only doing it when I was in class.

This isn't me saying, "Oh look how good I am." This is me saying that if during the previous several years, neither of us have practiced a form; and during the last few months he's done the form five times and I've practiced it 50 times, I probably have a better idea what's going on in the form than he does.

And it's something you see in BJJ, where some coaches have a better understanding of certain positions or styles than others. My Professor is a guard-puller, and we have coaches who have high-level high school and college wrestling backgrounds, who are much better at take-downs than he is. That doesn't mean anything against him or what we learn from him, but it does show where people's strengths are. Memorizing the TKD curriculum was a strength of mine.

I hope you see this is aiding in making my point that you were at a bad Dojang with a bad instructor. 'nuff said.

If you're saying it's a silly element to include, it sounds like you're just not happy with the comparison, and it's easier on your ego to exclude it.

I am saying it is a bad and extremely dangerous way for a green person to learn. Using it as a learned person or for brush-up/recall, that is all good. But you certainly did not frame it that way earlier.

You outright said I'm saying false information and lying. That's why I said you called me a liar.

You're badly misrepresenting what I say and making totally wild inferences and assumptions based on it. You make the worst-faith arguments about the things I say. That's why I said you were lying.

If instead your problem is incredibly poor reading comprehension, then I apologize.

Well, my reading comprehension isn't what it used to be, but that has nothing to do with any of this

I have read the diatribe and your lament about your journey for years now. I am certain you have more than confirmed everything I have said on several occasions.
And it is very, very clear that you have a problem discerning perception from reality. It has been said that we are all liars by proxy. Sadly, I feel that is true for most even it the best of cases (I know, it's hard to wrap your head around). It is the only time I think the magnitude of the 'lie' matters. And you spread it on quite heavy.

 

[opr1945134 21]

I don't know about that. In my head, everyone on this forum is 5'5.

what is wrong with that? When I wore a younger man's clothes I was 5'7". But that is another story.

 

[HighKick]

what is wrong with that? When I wore a younger man's clothes I was 5'7". But that is another story.

I hear ya. For most of my life I was 5'10-3/4" (competition required he exact measurement). Then injury and the 'itis' brothers took control and I am lucky to be 5'9" on a good day.

 

[skribs136 156]

Out of curiosity, I decided to ask Gemini the question, "Is there more online content available in English for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or for Taekwondo?"

This was the result:

When it comes to the sheer volume, commercial availability, and cultural dominance of English-language content online, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) significantly outpaces Taekwondo.
While Taekwondo has a much larger global footprint in terms of total practitioners (largely due to its Olympic status and massive children's demographics), the digital landscape for adult learners, conceptual instruction, and premium online media is overwhelmingly dominated by BJJ.
Here is a breakdown of why and how this disparity exists across different online mediums.

1. The Premium Instructional Market​

The commercial market for paid English-language martial arts instructionals is heavily skewed toward grappling. BJJ has a massive, highly lucrative ecosystem of digital platforms where practitioners routinely spend thousands of dollars on conceptual video libraries.

• BJJ Platforms: Giants like BJJ Fanatics host thousands of multi-hour instructionals. Dedicated subscription sites like Lachlan Giles’ Submeta, Grappler’s Guide, Gracie University, AOJ+, and Atos BJJ On Demand offer highly technical, database-style learning. Because the sport’s top stars speak fluent English (whether native or as a second language), English is the universal medium for these products.
• Taekwondo Platforms: Premium, standalone English instructional platforms are rare. Online Taekwondo content is heavily fragmented, usually consisting of individual school portals or smaller collections focusing on specific poomsae/tul (forms) or sparring drills.

2. YouTube & Social Media Dynamics​

On free video platforms, the nature of the content produced for each art differs dramatically, giving BJJ an edge in community engagement and depth.

• The BJJ Ecosystem: BJJ content thrives on technical breakdowns, sparring footage (rolling), vlog-style competition coverage, and conceptual theory. Channels like Chewjitsu, Jordan Teaches Jiujitsu, and Jon Thomas provide deep, conceptual analysis in English. Additionally, the massive popularity of podcasts (e.g., The BJJ Mental Models, Joe Rogan Experience crossovers) drives constant conversational English content.
• The Taekwondo Ecosystem: While there are excellent English-language creators (like Ginger Ninja Trickster or Cyber Taekwondo), a massive portion of high-level TKD content online focuses on aesthetic kicking tutorials, tricking, or Olympic sparring highlights. Furthermore, because Taekwondo's governing bodies are centered in South Korea (WT) and historically divided globally (ITF), a great deal of technical, high-level strategic content remains in Korean or is strictly rule-bound.

3. Online Communities & Forums​

The depth of written text, strategy discussion, and peer-to-peer analysis in English is significantly larger for BJJ.

Metric / Feature	Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu	Taekwondo
Primary Reddit Community	r/bjj (Over 800k members)	r/taekwondo (Around 80k members)
Discussion Focus	Deep technical concepts, rule metas, training philosophy, mechanics.	Belt progression advice, form troubleshooting, school choices, Olympic rules.
Digital Databases	Countless fan-made blogs, data-tracking apps, and technique-mapping trees.	Heavily reliant on official organizational PDFs and textbook manuals.

Summary of the Contrast​

The difference comes down to the core audience driving online demand. BJJ’s online presence is fueled by an obsessive adult demographic willing to consume hours of conceptual, dry, and hyper-detailed English commentary to fix minor mechanical issues in their game.
Conversely, Taekwondo’s global infrastructure is highly institutionalized. It relies on established organizational hierarchies (WT, ITF, ATA) and physical, in-person lineage. Because its largest base consists of children and teenagers, it hasn't generated the same massive, adult-driven digital marketplace for multi-hour video analysis in the English-speaking world.

I have spoken to Gemini more about Taekwondo than about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so if my previous conversations have influenced it, then it would have influenced it towards TKD.

I realize this is generative AI which contains its own credibility issues, however this is reaching far more sources than my own experience.

 

[HighKick]

Out of curiosity, I decided to ask Gemini the question, "Is there more online content available in English for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or for Taekwondo?"

This was the result:


I have spoken to Gemini more about Taekwondo than about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so if my previous conversations have influenced it, then it would have influenced it towards TKD.

I realize this is generative AI which contains its own credibility issues, however this is reaching far more sources than my own experience.

I gonna have to call Massive BS on that one. I have zero argument that there is a close to equal draw for youth and adults in TKD globally, and a larger adult market in the States for BJJ, but even that is regional. That said, there is some schools that are financially dependent on their youth clientele and it is a bad look for TKD.
Honestly, I can't figure what Gemini is pulling from unless it is a serious pay structure and only pulling from the heavier hitters. Which I would estimate that to be <30% of schools nationally. It may not matter greatly, but I wonder if other AI engines or keyword usage would change the result very much.

 

[Tony Dismukes135 31]

I gonna have to call Massive BS on that one. I have zero argument that there is a close to equal draw for youth and adults in TKD globally, and a larger adult market in the States for BJJ, but even that is regional. That said, there is some schools that are financially dependent on their youth clientele and it is a bad look for TKD.
Honestly, I can't figure what Gemini is pulling from unless it is a serious pay structure and only pulling from the heavier hitters. Which I would estimate that to be <30% of schools nationally. It may not matter greatly, but I wonder if other AI engines or keyword usage would change the result very much.

Not sure if you caught it, but Skribs was talking about online content, not number of practitioners.

I strongly suspect that Gemini’s analysis is correct, for the reasons it lays out.

For example, BJJ Fanatics alone has more than 3000 instructional videos for sale. (And they are certainly not the only site selling such instructionals.)

There are plenty of subscription websites for BJJ material, which each typically will have hundreds or thousands of videos. (Both instructionals and tournament footage.)

And of course there are endless YouTube channels with BJJ material.

It’s not my impression that the TKD community is as into online content and instructionals. But I’m open to correction. What would the TKD equivalent be for sites like BJJ Fanatics, Gracie University, MGinAction, BJJ Concepts, ATOS on Demand, Grapplers Guide, and so on?

 

[skribs136 156]

Not sure if you caught it, but Skribs was talking about online content, not number of practitioners.

I strongly suspect that Gemini’s analysis is correct, for the reasons it lays out.

For example, BJJ Fanatics alone has more than 3000 instructional videos for sale. (And they are certainly not the only site selling such instructionals.)

There are plenty of subscription websites for BJJ material, which each typically will have hundreds or thousands of videos. (Both instructionals and tournament footage.)

And of course there are endless YouTube channels with BJJ material.

It’s not my impression that the TKD community is as into online content and instructionals. But I’m open to correction. What would the TKD equivalent be for sites like BJJ Fanatics, Gracie University, MGinAction, BJJ Concepts, ATOS on Demand, Grapplers Guide, and so on?

There is a community that advertises a lot on Facebook called GMAU (Global Martial Arts University), they have programs where you can watch video instruction of forms and other curriculum items, and then you can send in your videos to get judged for belt promotions. They have a TKD program. I don't know of anything like BJJFanatics for TKD.

If we are going to look at the youtube side of things, I think that most TKD videos fall into one of two camps:

1. How to do the curriculum at the school posting the video. Simple things like forms or one-steps. These are mostly useful for the people who train at that specific school.
2. How to do the kicks in Taekwondo, maybe with sparring application.

BJJ has:

• How to do a specific technique or a couple of techniques (usually what you would have as a "move-of-the-day" for a class).
• Philosophy videos, such as those popular in The Art of Skill channel.
• How to escape certain positions or submissions.
• How to do a sneaky technique or trick.
• A system or concept (Jon Thomas BJJ does this a lot).
• Rolling breakdowns or competition breakdowns (Jordan Teaches Jiu-Jitsu).
• Technique compendiums (The Grapplers Guide by Jason Scully)
• Q&A videos (Chewjitsu)
• Recordings of seminars
• Podcasts (The You Suck At Jiu-Jitsu Podcast)

I'm subscribed to a handful of TKD channels and dozens of BJJ channels, and I've been looking at TKD a lot longer than BJJ. In fact...

• When I was training TKD, I found some BJJ channels useful. A lot of what Chewjitsu says applies to any martial art. Things like how to behave, how to handle stress or frustration in training, how to handle imposter syndrome or how to handle feeling like your coach is holding you back, etc.
• Training BJJ, I don't really find TKD channels useful. They tend to focus specifically on the TKD techniques or etiquette.

 

[skribs136 156]

I gonna have to call Massive BS on that one. I have zero argument that there is a close to equal draw for youth and adults in TKD globally, and a larger adult market in the States for BJJ, but even that is regional. That said, there is some schools that are financially dependent on their youth clientele and it is a bad look for TKD.
Honestly, I can't figure what Gemini is pulling from unless it is a serious pay structure and only pulling from the heavier hitters. Which I would estimate that to be <30% of schools nationally. It may not matter greatly, but I wonder if other AI engines or keyword usage would change the result very much.

Do you have some evidence to provide to show that TKD does have a similar community as BJJ? Because so far I've shown my experience, which you've argued is not reflective of the community as a whole; and I've shown a result from AI, which aggregates information from the community.

Maybe there's something in the middle. But how would you prove it's not your anecdotal evidence?

Do you have examples of communities similar to what I'm describing that you could provide names and links for? Or is it just that you've had a magical experience in TKD and we should know that your experience is indicative of the art as a whole?