AI can be our MA teacher

[Kung Fu Wang114 145]

I ask AI the following question:

"In martial art, why one wants to grab his opponent's wrist?"

AI gives me a very good answer. I don't think even a good MA teacher can teach us this much detail.

What do you think?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grabbing an opponent’s wrist is one of those deceptively simple actions that opens the door to a lot of control. Across Shuai Jiao, Mantis, Zimen, and even modern grappling, the wrist is a strategic handle. Once you understand why, you start seeing it everywhere.

Here’s the real logic behind it, broken down cleanly.

Why martial artists grab the wrist​

1. The wrist is the “end of the lever”​

If you control the end of a lever, you influence the whole structure behind it.

• The wrist leads the elbow
• The elbow leads the shoulder
• The shoulder leads the torso

A small movement at the wrist can force a big movement in the opponent’s body. This is why joint locks, throws, and off-balancing often begin with a wrist capture.

2. It interrupts their attack cycle​

Most strikes, grabs, and weapon draws start with the hands.

If you control the wrist, you:

• Stop punches before they launch
• Prevent grabs and clinches
• Shut down weapon access
• Disrupt their timing and rhythm

It’s preemptive control.

3. It gives you a “handle” for throws​

This is especially true in Shuai Jiao.

A wrist grab:

• Sets up outer leg twist, inner hook, hip throws, shoulder throws
• Lets you pull, push, twist, or spiral the opponent
• Helps you break their posture before the throw

Shuai Jiao’s fast entries often start with a quick wrist capture to create kuzushi (off-balance).

4. It exposes the opponent’s weak angles​

The wrist is structurally weak:

• It can’t resist rotation well
• It can’t resist sudden directional changes
• It’s easy to pull out of alignment

This makes it ideal for:

• Chin-na style joint manipulations
• Mantis-style seizing and pulling
• Zimen-style quick intercepts and redirections

You’re attacking the weakest link in their chain.

5. It forces predictable reactions​

When someone’s wrist is grabbed, they almost always:

• Pull back
• Rotate the arm
• Step in or step out
• Try to free the hand

These reactions are gold because they’re predictable.

You can use them to:

• Set traps
• Lead them into a throw
• Open their centerline
• Create striking opportunities

Good fighters don’t grab randomly—they grab to provoke a reaction they already know how to exploit.

6. It anchors you for striking​

A wrist grab can stabilize the opponent so your strikes land with more accuracy and power.

Examples:

• Pulling their arm to expose ribs or jaw
• Holding the wrist to prevent them from covering
• Using the wrist to pull them into your strike

This is classic Mantis logic: seize → pull → strike.

7. It prevents ​

If you grab their wrist first, you deny them:

• Clinch entries
• Grips for throws
• Control ties
• Arm drags
• Wrist control on you

It’s a pre-emptive defensive strategy.

If you want, I can break down:​

• Why double wrist control is so powerful
• How different arts (Shuai Jiao vs. Mantis vs. BJJ) use wrist control differently
• The biomechanics of how wrist control leads to whole-body control
• How to counter someone grabbing your wrist

Just tell me which direction you want to explore.

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 145]

• The wrist leads the elbow
• The elbow leads the shoulder
• The shoulder leads the torso

When you grab on your opponent's wrist, since his elbow joint is free, you are not controlling his arm yet. So, the wrist grab is only step 1. Step 2 is to obtain the elbow joint control.

 

[Buka29 3]

I ask AI the following question:

"In martial art, why one wants to grab his opponent's wrist?"

AI gives me a very good answer. I don't think even a good MA teacher can teach us this much detail.

What do you think?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grabbing an opponent’s wrist is one of those deceptively simple actions that opens the door to a lot of control. Across Shuai Jiao, Mantis, Zimen, and even modern grappling, the wrist is a strategic handle. Once you understand why, you start seeing it everywhere.

Here’s the real logic behind it, broken down cleanly.

Why martial artists grab the wrist​

1. The wrist is the “end of the lever”​

If you control the end of a lever, you influence the whole structure behind it.

• The wrist leads the elbow
• The elbow leads the shoulder
• The shoulder leads the torso

A small movement at the wrist can force a big movement in the opponent’s body. This is why joint locks, throws, and off-balancing often begin with a wrist capture.

2. It interrupts their attack cycle​

Most strikes, grabs, and weapon draws start with the hands.

If you control the wrist, you:

• Stop punches before they launch
• Prevent grabs and clinches
• Shut down weapon access
• Disrupt their timing and rhythm

It’s preemptive control.

3. It gives you a “handle” for throws​

This is especially true in Shuai Jiao.

A wrist grab:

• Sets up outer leg twist, inner hook, hip throws, shoulder throws
• Lets you pull, push, twist, or spiral the opponent
• Helps you break their posture before the throw

Shuai Jiao’s fast entries often start with a quick wrist capture to create kuzushi (off-balance).

4. It exposes the opponent’s weak angles​

The wrist is structurally weak:

• It can’t resist rotation well
• It can’t resist sudden directional changes
• It’s easy to pull out of alignment

This makes it ideal for:

• Chin-na style joint manipulations
• Mantis-style seizing and pulling
• Zimen-style quick intercepts and redirections

You’re attacking the weakest link in their chain.

5. It forces predictable reactions​

When someone’s wrist is grabbed, they almost always:

• Pull back
• Rotate the arm
• Step in or step out
• Try to free the hand

These reactions are gold because they’re predictable.

You can use them to:

• Set traps
• Lead them into a throw
• Open their centerline
• Create striking opportunities

Good fighters don’t grab randomly—they grab to provoke a reaction they already know how to exploit.

6. It anchors you for striking​

A wrist grab can stabilize the opponent so your strikes land with more accuracy and power.

Examples:

• Pulling their arm to expose ribs or jaw
• Holding the wrist to prevent them from covering
• Using the wrist to pull them into your strike

This is classic Mantis logic: seize → pull → strike.

7. It prevents ​

If you grab their wrist first, you deny them:

• Clinch entries
• Grips for throws
• Control ties
• Arm drags
• Wrist control on you

It’s a pre-emptive defensive strategy.

If you want, I can break down:​

• Why double wrist control is so powerful
• How different arts (Shuai Jiao vs. Mantis vs. BJJ) use wrist control differently
• The biomechanics of how wrist control leads to whole-body control
• How to counter someone grabbing your wrist

Just tell me which direction you want to explore.

I think AI will eventually be the downfall of civilization as we know it.

 

[gspell68]

• The wrist leads the elbow
• The elbow leads the shoulder
• The shoulder leads the torso

When you grab on your opponent's wrist, since his elbow joint is free, you are not controlling his arm yet. So, the wrist grab is only step 1. Step 2 is to obtain the elbow joint control.

A good shiho-nage or sankyo will change your mind!

 

[wab25]

AI gives me a very good answer. I don't think even a good MA teacher can teach us this much detail.

We may have different definitions of a "good MA teacher." All the MA teachers I have had, absolutely covered your AI response. That response is about the most basic level, as you can get. If your "good MA teachers" couldn't even cover the stuff in the AI response.... then we have very different ideas on what a good MA teacher is.

Further, reading that response did not help me improve or apply my wrist techniques at all. It gave me know way to improve them, no way to analyze whether I am doing them right, and no insight into applying them at all.

 

[wab25]

A good shiho-nage or sankyo will change your mind!

A good Shiho-nage and a good sankyo, both require that you obtain elbow joint control.... followed by shoulder control.... followed by control of their center. If you fail to control the elbow.... your Shiho-nage or sankyo will fail.

 

[Steve]

I don't think AI is good for much of anything at this point. I've tried using it for things more complex than rewriting an email, and have found them to be very unreliable.

 

[Steve]

I think AI will eventually be the downfall of civilization as we know it.

 

[Xue Sheng107 25]

I think AI will eventually be the downfall of civilization as we know it.

 

[Xue Sheng107 25]

I ask AI the following question:

"In martial art, why one wants to grab his opponent's wrist?"

AI gives me a very good answer. I don't think even a good MA teacher can teach us this much detail.

What do you think?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grabbing an opponent’s wrist is one of those deceptively simple actions that opens the door to a lot of control. Across Shuai Jiao, Mantis, Zimen, and even modern grappling, the wrist is a strategic handle. Once you understand why, you start seeing it everywhere.

Here’s the real logic behind it, broken down cleanly.

Why martial artists grab the wrist​

1. The wrist is the “end of the lever”​

If you control the end of a lever, you influence the whole structure behind it.

• The wrist leads the elbow
• The elbow leads the shoulder
• The shoulder leads the torso

A small movement at the wrist can force a big movement in the opponent’s body. This is why joint locks, throws, and off-balancing often begin with a wrist capture.

2. It interrupts their attack cycle​

Most strikes, grabs, and weapon draws start with the hands.

If you control the wrist, you:

• Stop punches before they launch
• Prevent grabs and clinches
• Shut down weapon access
• Disrupt their timing and rhythm

It’s preemptive control.

3. It gives you a “handle” for throws​

This is especially true in Shuai Jiao.

A wrist grab:

• Sets up outer leg twist, inner hook, hip throws, shoulder throws
• Lets you pull, push, twist, or spiral the opponent
• Helps you break their posture before the throw

Shuai Jiao’s fast entries often start with a quick wrist capture to create kuzushi (off-balance).

4. It exposes the opponent’s weak angles​

The wrist is structurally weak:

• It can’t resist rotation well
• It can’t resist sudden directional changes
• It’s easy to pull out of alignment

This makes it ideal for:

• Chin-na style joint manipulations
• Mantis-style seizing and pulling
• Zimen-style quick intercepts and redirections

You’re attacking the weakest link in their chain.

5. It forces predictable reactions​

When someone’s wrist is grabbed, they almost always:

• Pull back
• Rotate the arm
• Step in or step out
• Try to free the hand

These reactions are gold because they’re predictable.

You can use them to:

• Set traps
• Lead them into a throw
• Open their centerline
• Create striking opportunities

Good fighters don’t grab randomly—they grab to provoke a reaction they already know how to exploit.

6. It anchors you for striking​

A wrist grab can stabilize the opponent so your strikes land with more accuracy and power.

Examples:

• Pulling their arm to expose ribs or jaw
• Holding the wrist to prevent them from covering
• Using the wrist to pull them into your strike

This is classic Mantis logic: seize → pull → strike.

7. It prevents ​

If you grab their wrist first, you deny them:

• Clinch entries
• Grips for throws
• Control ties
• Arm drags
• Wrist control on you

It’s a pre-emptive defensive strategy.

If you want, I can break down:​

• Why double wrist control is so powerful
• How different arts (Shuai Jiao vs. Mantis vs. BJJ) use wrist control differently
• The biomechanics of how wrist control leads to whole-body control
• How to counter someone grabbing your wrist

Just tell me which direction you want to explore.

According to AI

Current "AI" is generally not the sentient, human-like intelligence depicted in science fiction, but rather
highly advanced narrow AI(Machine Learning/Large Language Models) designed for specialized pattern recognition and data processing. It excels at tasks like generating text or recognizing images but lacks genuine understanding, self-awareness, or adaptability across different domains

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 145]

A good Shiho-nage and a good sankyo, both require that you obtain elbow joint control.... followed by shoulder control.... followed by control of their center. If you fail to control the elbow.... your Shiho-nage or sankyo will fail.

I was expecting AI would tell me, "If you control your opponent's wrist, you can do ..." I was surprised that AI understands the following.

• The wrist leads the elbow
• The elbow leads the shoulder
• The shoulder leads the torso

 

[skribs113 134]

This is a thorough answer, which is great for textbook and for deep-dive discussions, but I think also discounts the value of a brief and to-the-point discussion.

There are two very big myths that I think need to be dispelled here:

1. Because an instructor doesn't go into this much detail when teaching, it means he's a bad teacher and/or doesn't know enough to teach.
2. Because a forum poster doesn't go into this much detail when discussing a topic, it mean's he's ignorant of everything that was left unsaid.

If we went over every detail, caveat, and "yabbit" (to quote the late great Paul Harrell), then any one forum post would be tens of thousands of words, and nobody would be able to train in class because the instructor would spend the entire time lecturing.

 

[wab25]

There are two very big myths that I think need to be dispelled here:

1. Because an instructor doesn't go into this much detail when teaching, it means he's a bad teacher and/or doesn't know enough to teach.
2. Because a forum poster doesn't go into this much detail when discussing a topic, it mean's he's ignorant of everything that was left unsaid.

In the context of this thread... how are we falling victim to these myths?

 

[skribs113 134]

In the context of this thread... how are we falling victim to these myths?

OP is saying that the AI is a better teacher because of the answer it gave. That's not necessarily true.

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 145]

OP is saying that the AI is a better teacher because of the answer it gave. That's not necessarily true.

If you ask 100 MA teachers, how many of those 100 MA teachers will tell you that "The reason that you want to grab on your opponent's wrist because you want to ..."?

In this video, the person on the left grabs on his opponent's wrist. If the moment that his opponent reacts, the moment that he release his wrist grip and move his hand toward his opponent's elbow joint, his opponent can never apply locking on him.

Apparently, the person on the left, his MA teacher didn't explain to him that "The wrist should lead to the elbow".

 

[wab25]

If you ask 100 MA teachers, how many of those 100 MA teachers will tell you that "The reason that you want to grab on your opponent's wrist because you want to ..."?

Not sure what your question is here.... But every MA Teacher I have trained with or spent time talking with, understood the reason for grabbing the opponent's wrist. They all cover at a bare minimum what you posted AI said.... even the not so great teachers can add a lot more detail to any or all of the points your AI came up with. Every single one has explained how to get to the persons center: finger -> wrist -> elbow -> shoulder -> spine -> center.

In this video, the person on the left grabs on his opponent's wrist. If the moment that his opponent reacts, the moment that he release his wrist grip and move his hand toward his opponent's elbow joint, his opponent can never apply locking on him.

Apparently, the person on the left, his MA teacher didn't explain to him that "The wrist should lead to the elbow".

This is an example of why learning from AI or video, will take you down the wrong road. The reason for this drill is not to see if you can escape before the other guy locks you.... The reason for the drill, is to look at exactly the sequence you are talking about: wrist -> elbow -> shoulder -> spine. In this drill, they are isolating the contact to one hand on one wrist. As the one guy moves his body, it is applying a torque to the wrist and you can see it effect the elbow. See the 26 second mark... he is moving so that the arm effects the other guys wrist, which then effects the elbow, you can even see the shoulder starting to get captured as well. At 48 seconds, he is show what happens when you lose that connect... see how he is pulling the wrist all around, but since he has not captured the elbow, the shoulder, the spine... nothing happens.... until the 1 minute mark where he again engages the entire sequence.

This is a drill for studying the movement and studying the connection, the exact connection sequence you are talking about. Sure, they study it in a different way than you do, but they are still studying the same thing.

This is exactly why AI and video learning will never work. Having trained that exact technique with many different Aikido instructors.... that technique is focusing entirely on the sequence that you were so impressed that AI found.... and then you use the drill, designed to teach that sequence, as a counter example of people not understanding wrist control as well as AI.

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 145]

Not sure what your question is here.... But every MA Teacher I have trained with or spent time talking with, understood the reason for grabbing the opponent's wrist. They all cover at a bare minimum what you posted AI said.... even the not so great teachers can add a lot more detail to any or all of the points your AI came up with. Every single one has explained how to get to the persons center: finger -> wrist -> elbow -> shoulder -> spine -> center.


This is an example of why learning from AI or video, will take you down the wrong road. The reason for this drill is not to see if you can escape before the other guy locks you.... The reason for the drill, is to look at exactly the sequence you are talking about: wrist -> elbow -> shoulder -> spine. In this drill, they are isolating the contact to one hand on one wrist. As the one guy moves his body, it is applying a torque to the wrist and you can see it effect the elbow. See the 26 second mark... he is moving so that the arm effects the other guys wrist, which then effects the elbow, you can even see the shoulder starting to get captured as well. At 48 seconds, he is show what happens when you lose that connect... see how he is pulling the wrist all around, but since he has not captured the elbow, the shoulder, the spine... nothing happens.... until the 1 minute mark where he again engages the entire sequence.

This is a drill for studying the movement and studying the connection, the exact connection sequence you are talking about. Sure, they study it in a different way than you do, but they are still studying the same thing.

This is exactly why AI and video learning will never work. Having trained that exact technique with many different Aikido instructors.... that technique is focusing entirely on the sequence that you were so impressed that AI found.... and then you use the drill, designed to teach that sequence, as a counter example of people not understanding wrist control as well as AI.

My question is "Why do you want to grab on your opponent's wrist?"

I was expecting the following answer from AI:

You grab on your opponent wrist, if he

- does nothing, your other hand should grab on his elbow.
- tries to break your wrist grip, you should release your wrist grip and move to his elbow joint.

I'm talking about the person on the left. After he grabs his opponent's wrist. He stops there and doing nothing (mistake 1). Even when his opponent reacts to his wrist grabbing, he still hangs on his wrist grabbing for no good reason (mistake 2).

AI doesn't suggest:

- hold on wrist grab and freeze there.
- when your opponent responds, you still refuse to release.

AI suggests "wrist -> elbow".

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 145]

We may have different definitions of a "good MA teacher." All the MA teachers I have had, absolutely covered your AI response.

Many MA teachers only talk about solo training. They don't even talk about partner training at all.

AI at least understands that MA is not only solo training. MA involve with "opponent" as well.

There are many thread discussions that people said, "If you grab me, I know where your arm is. That will be toward my advantage." But some people may not know that as long as the key to release that wrist grabbing is in his opponent's hand. It's always toward his opponent's advantage.

 

[drop bear114 53]

I think AI will eventually be the downfall of civilization as we know it.

Not in the way you might think.

I assume at some point all facets of media will be determined by the individual. You don't want a black mermaid? The put in a white one. Don't like that sad ending? Change it.

We will loose anything that makes us uncomfortable and therefore makes us grow.

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[gspell68]

A good Shiho-nage and a good sankyo, both require that you obtain elbow joint control.... followed by shoulder control.... followed by control of their center. If you fail to control the elbow.... your Shiho-nage or sankyo will fail.

Yep.
I think we’re talking about the same thing, but all of that can be accomplished from the wrist without ever touching the elbow or shoulder like in the video below.
Of course, there are variations where the second hand can grab the elbow, upper arm, or shoulder while cranking the wrist, too.