I competed in another fighting style without speaking to my Sensei first (serious)

[MadMartigan104 20]

As has been mentioned already, your Instructor does not own you or have say in or control over your actions outside the school. With that said, I have a couple thoughts as a school owner.

First, if you didn't think there was anything wrong with your decision, why did you keep it a secret while continuing to train with them? Perhaps, it was because you already suspected they would disapprove or worse, react like you had somehow betrayed them.

If I was your instructor, my main concern would be why you felt the need to act in secret. That speaks to a larger issue of trust between those involved.

There also may be legitimate reasons why they might discourage you from cross competition. I'm guessing, from context, that you may have only been training for maybe a couple years (please correct me if I am mistaken). They may have had legitimate concerns about whether you were ready. By removing your instructor from the equation, you may have missed out on some guidance that you may not have even realized you needed yet.

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

Very cool that it works that way, I envy you and your martial arts experience.

The only issue with our system is poor but enthusiastic teachers stay in business because there are few alternatives. I assume US combat art teachers are all really good at what they do because they’re running a business where student can vote with their feet and leave to find another club. A Darwinian system.

10 weeks to reach even 10th kyu is a stretch, I am not sure what anyone could be learning in 10 weeks

It depends what’s on the syllabus. For Iai, 8th Kyu is just being able to perform the opening and closing aisetsu (salutations) which are quite elaborate.

The worker-employer relationship in the US is fragile in almost all states. For example, I could be walked out of the door today with no severance pay for committing the smallest of infractions. Or if the company decides to downsize they could fire me on the spot if they wanted to. So my point is, sometimes people are not loyal to their employers here, it is all very transactional like you saying earlier about US culture. Years of tenure typically mean nothing without union protection, a contract, or knowing the right people, sadly we don't have the same employment rights you all have in the UK.

Yes, it’s hard to get rid of employees here which has its own issues!

But I understand the statement you were trying to make with that analogy.

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

As has been mentioned already, your Instructor does not own you or have say in or control over your actions outside the school. With that said, I have a couple thoughts as a school owner.

First, if you didn't think there was anything wrong with your decision, why did you keep it a secret while continuing to train with them? Perhaps, it was because you already suspected they would disapprove or worse, react like you had somehow betrayed them.

If I was your instructor, my main concern would be why you felt the need to act in secret. That speaks to a larger issue of trust between those involved.

There also may be legitimate reasons why they might discourage you from cross competition. I'm guessing, from context, that you may have only been training for maybe a couple years (please correct me if I am mistaken). They may have had legitimate concerns about whether you were ready. By removing your instructor from the equation, you may have missed out on some guidance that you may not have even realized you needed yet.

I mostly didn't want anyone trying to discourage me; I got enough negativity 1 hour before the fight from the Muay Thai guys doubting my ability to stand and trade face punches as a Karateka; I believed in myself when nobody else did and I really took it to my opponent despite my lack of preparation.

The dojo is currently prepping for an event, who am I to ask everyone to divert their attention away from that to assist me in my side mission?

In the grand scheme of things I am a low ranking nobody who keeps his mouth shut during class and attempts to attract as little attention as possible.

But point taken, I can understand your opinion; this could be perceived as distrust from their point of view. Maybe I will just let them know about it and clear the air before they see the video elsewhere.

 

[Gerry Seymour2 1]

probably because 99.9% karate instructors would know squat about preparing someone for a Thai fight

True, but many karate instructors know about competition fighting, in general, so could help. OP said it's a full contact discipline, so I'd expect the instructor to be able to help prep, at least in a general sense.

 

[Gerry Seymour2 1]

I currently train in a full contact karate discipline, I have always wanted to take a real fight and recently had the opportunity to test my might in a Muay Thai tournament.

Here lies the issue: I didn't say anything to my dojo, I just took a week to prepare and showed up to the tournament as an independent fighter (meaning I didn't fight under their dojo name).

This question is directed to the Sensei's and Shihan's here, would you be upset that a student in your club fought elsewhere without your knowledge?

On one hand I am in my 30's and am an adult, so asking 'permission' feels a bit weird to me, especially from someone I only see a few hours a week, but on the other hand a little bit of professional courtesy goes a long way and is respectful.

I could see this going 1 of 2 ways: Either they don't care and think it's cool I took a real fight and was competitive, or 2 they feel disrespected and I possibly get expelled.

What do you guys think?

Also if anyone is interested I can give the play by play, it was a fun but challenging learning experience.

Probably wouldn't get punched in the face for free again though.

When I was teaching, I'd mostly have been disappointed that they didn't mention it. I'd have given them any advice, help, and free class time I could manage.

At the same time, my primary instructor would have been unreasonably upset. He didn't like the idea of competing, and tended to take things personally.

 

[Haruhiko]

Speaking personally, I would expect this to be grounds for a sit-down-talk situation with my sensei...

Even if it were tennis.

 

[isshinryuronin3 3]

When I was teaching, I'd mostly have been disappointed that they didn't mention it. I'd have given them any advice, help, and free class time I could manage.

This is my feeling as well. I see nothing wrong with it, quite the opposite (given the student was fairly advanced). Not everyone you fight will have the same style as you, so it's good to be exposed to attacks outside your comfort zone. Now, taking Muy Thai lessons might be a different matter if the student was less than sandan.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf114 144]

Speaking personally, I would expect this to be grounds for a sit-down-talk situation with my sensei...

Even if it were tennis.

I think thats a good point. If i were practicing tennis, and participated in a tennis competition without talking to my tennis instructor, that'd be pretty weird. And detrimental to me. Same thing here

 

[Haruhiko]

I think thats a good point. If i were practicing tennis, and participated in a tennis competition without talking to my tennis instructor, that'd be pretty weird. And detrimental to me. Same thing here

Well yes, but even practising HNIR or MSR for example, it's my understanding (and I've no qualms about it) that my sensei would expect some pretty good reasons for me taking up tennis.

Least of all which I'm tending to two damaged shoulders. But it's more complicated than that (and simpler from a macro perspective):

You're using your body, positioning your feet, adopting a mindset, and moving in ways that some might say are anathema to your original art.

I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable calling myself a student of Niten while practising, say, Yagyu Shinkage-ryū for instance.

That's not to say they're incompatible to any other practitioner. Just to me.

 

[skribs113 133]

I think thats a good point. If i were practicing tennis, and participated in a tennis competition without talking to my tennis instructor, that'd be pretty weird. And detrimental to me. Same thing here

More like if you didn't talk to your tennis instructor before entering a volleyball tournament.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf114 144]

More like if you didn't talk to your tennis instructor before entering a volleyball tournament.

Not for full contact karate vs. muay thai. It's a martial arts instructor for a martial arts competition. The biggest different is the ruleset, not that it's an entirely different sport.

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

More like if you didn't talk to your tennis instructor before entering a volleyball tournament.

 

[skribs113 133]

Not for full contact karate vs. muay thai. It's a martial arts instructor for a martial arts competition. The biggest different is the ruleset, not that it's an entirely different sport.

That's why I said volleyball instead of hockey. Both involve you in a square hitting a ball over a net. But it is different enough that there may be some differences in how to approach it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 144]

If i were practicing tennis, and participated in a tennis competition without talking to my tennis instructor, that'd be pretty weird.

If you have multiple girlfriends, will you talk to your girlfriend A when you date your girlfriend B?

I have 2 MA teachers. teacher A encouraged me to compete. Teacher B didn't. If I compete in MA tournament, why do I want to tell my teacher B?

One time I competed in Karate tournament. My opponent used "earth" strategy. He moved in inch by inch with strong defense. I moved back out of the ring twice and I lost that tournament. I asked my MA teacher B what strategy I should used to deal with my opponent's "earth" strategy. My teacher B told me that I should not always thinking about fighting. In my teacher B's mind, I'm a bad student who only care about fighting, and don't care about self-cultivation, inner peace, culture preservation, ...

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

If you have multiple girlfriends, will you talk to your girlfriend A when you date your girlfriend B?

lol

 

[Gerry Seymour2 1]

More like if you didn't talk to your tennis instructor before entering a volleyball tournament.

Not quite that different, but yeah, a bit more. Maybe more like if you were taking hard-court lessons (most common) and entered a clay-court tournament. Or maybe pickleball? Or doubles tennis?

 

[Gerry Seymour2 1]

This is my feeling as well. I see nothing wrong with it, quite the opposite (given the student was fairly advanced). Not everyone you fight will have the same style as you, so it's good to be exposed to attacks outside your comfort zone. Now, taking Muy Thai lessons might be a different matter if the student was less than sandan.

For me, I wouldn't even have minded if they were taking other classes, though I'd really want them to tell me, so I could help them work to combine the principles, or at least help them recognize where one might make learning the other more difficult because of competing principles.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf114 144]

That's why I said volleyball instead of hockey. Both involve you in a square hitting a ball over a net. But it is different enough that there may be some differences in how to approach it.

Still not the same. If he were participating in a sumo match or something I'd agree. Closer to different court types like gerry said, or you've got a singles instructor and decide to participate in a doubles tournament. Same body motions for the most part, same general concept, but strategy and tactics differ.

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

Not quite that different, but yeah, a bit more. Maybe more like if you were taking hard-court lessons (most common) and entered a clay-court tournament. Or maybe pickleball? Or doubles tennis?

The deafening sound of hairs being split

Years ago, I wanted to take private Iai lessons from a 7th Dan (my teacher was 5th Dan) for my upcoming 3rd Dan grading. So I asked my teacher if it was alright to do so and he made a big fuss about it being totally fine by him. I had the lessons every week, with a round trip of 4 hours and really improved. I could sense my regular teacher becoming ill at ease with my new found knowledge and ability and over time he became decidedly ‘antsy’. He was clearly jealous that she was doing a better job than at improving my swordsmanship than he ever could. Luckily I passed my 3rd Dan and ceased my lessons before he exploded?

He finally did explode over another matter and so I ask to cease being his student amd move to another dojo. He said he’d help me find another dojo and write a letter of recommendation. I simply went back to my old, original dojo despite a hours drive compare to 20 minutes and was wholeheartedly welcomed back by my old teacher. Then my old teacher (a work colleague and friend) told me the 5th Dan had contacted him and said he should under no circumstances take me on as a student especially since it was a sister dojo. My good friend said it was no such thing and said he’d take on anyone he damn well wanted.

Huge egos in the TMA.

 

[Notdirtydannnnn3 4]

The deafening sound of hairs being split

Years ago, I wanted to take private Iai lessons from a 7th Dan (my teacher was 5th Dan) for my upcoming 3rd Dan grading. So I asked my teacher if it was alright to do so and he made a big fuss about it being totally fine by him. I had the lessons every week, with a round trip of 4 hours and really improved. I could sense my regular teacher becoming ill at ease with my new found knowledge and ability and over time he became decidedly ‘antsy’. He was clearly jealous that she was doing a better job than at improving my swordsmanship than he ever could. Luckily I passed my 3rd Dan and ceased my lessons before he exploded?

He finally did explode over another matter and so I ask to cease being his student amd move to another dojo. He said he’d help me find another dojo and write a letter of recommendation. I simply went back to my old, original dojo despite a hours drive compare to 20 minutes and was wholeheartedly welcomed back by my old teacher. Then my old teacher (a work colleague and friend) told me the 5th Dan had contacted him and said he should under no circumstances take me on as a student especially since it was a sister dojo. My good friend said it was no such thing and said he’d take on anyone he damn well wanted.

Huge egos in the TMA.

Hairs are most certainly being split in half, maybe even thirds.

Wow, what a ego maniac, I don't blame you for walking away and moving on; it is good to hear your old teacher has a good head on their shoulders and looks at TMA in a non-egotistical way.

Very two faced of that 5th Dan to go behind your back like that, yet act agreeable to your face.