My style is Isshin-Ryu. Known for devastating power; but it's hardly the only style that offers this.
Multiple opponenets
- Thread starter tkizzle05
- Start date
My style is Isshin-Ryu. Known for devastating power; but it's hardly the only style that offers this.
Line them up, you should be oriented as best as possible to deal with only one person confronting at the time.
Do what you can to have them attack each other. The person you are not dealing with (the other multiples) should be striking the person who has the lead confrontation with you. I do my best that every block doubles as a strike, and that means that every time I block a follower (what I consider a multiple who is not the direct focus) I attempt to have their strike hit the other attempting to attack me.
If you can throw, or sweep, do so in a way which impedes the others.
Be effective. You never know, in real life, or in the dojo, when one of the multiples will pull a knife, or gun. Do not parry, kill. Mitigate. Destroy, and do not hold back. I lost my ability to kick for 6 months from a shattered right ribcage- and that was my failure not to line up my assailants, during that particular exam.
Do what you can to have them attack each other. The person you are not dealing with (the other multiples) should be striking the person who has the lead confrontation with you. I do my best that every block doubles as a strike, and that means that every time I block a follower (what I consider a multiple who is not the direct focus) I attempt to have their strike hit the other attempting to attack me.
If you can throw, or sweep, do so in a way which impedes the others.
Be effective. You never know, in real life, or in the dojo, when one of the multiples will pull a knife, or gun. Do not parry, kill. Mitigate. Destroy, and do not hold back. I lost my ability to kick for 6 months from a shattered right ribcage- and that was my failure not to line up my assailants, during that particular exam.
WC_lun
Senior Master
If you don't want to be mugged by 3 to 5 guys, the best defense is not to get around 3 to 5 guys that would mug you.
Your posts reflect a view of martial arts that is somewhat common of untrained people, unfortunately. It is fantasy. Even the best martial artist among us would have issues with three to five attackers. Anyone that says they can train you to reliably take on that many people and come out unscathed is simply lying to you.
The desire to use chi as a tool for fighting is something I have run across too often, as I am primarily trained in Chinese arts. The truth is, if you concentrate on chi as the base for your fighting ability, you are going to be lacking when it comes to defending yourself. You are MUCH better served to study body and fight mechanics. The mystical warrior able to defeat people with only his chi is a big fat myth. Great for fantasy stories. Not so good for reality.
If you want to learn how to defend yourself then go find a good school. There are good schools out there, of varying styles and systems. You gotta look for them and once you find them, dedicate yourself to the training. There is no quick and easy, yet effective martial art.
Your posts reflect a view of martial arts that is somewhat common of untrained people, unfortunately. It is fantasy. Even the best martial artist among us would have issues with three to five attackers. Anyone that says they can train you to reliably take on that many people and come out unscathed is simply lying to you.
The desire to use chi as a tool for fighting is something I have run across too often, as I am primarily trained in Chinese arts. The truth is, if you concentrate on chi as the base for your fighting ability, you are going to be lacking when it comes to defending yourself. You are MUCH better served to study body and fight mechanics. The mystical warrior able to defeat people with only his chi is a big fat myth. Great for fantasy stories. Not so good for reality.
If you want to learn how to defend yourself then go find a good school. There are good schools out there, of varying styles and systems. You gotta look for them and once you find them, dedicate yourself to the training. There is no quick and easy, yet effective martial art.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Or it could be a real attack....
While I see what Alex is saying here, based on group assault tactics, he might be rather shocked if he ever tried applying such tactics. Not good advise, unfortunately.
Tim, the best advise that we can give is to find out what martial art schools are in your area, check them all out, and go with the one that is the best fit for you (which will be far more about the instructor and school/students, rather than the art, when it comes down to it), then train seriously in it (still have fun, though). Don't be concerned with this art versus that art, who does what, cross-training, or anything else until you have a decent basis in your first system. Until then you simply don't have a baseline for any comparison, so no matter what we suggest, it won't help. Additionally, even if we suggest the perfect art for you, it might not be available to you... or worse, could be taught by someone who doesn't have a clue how to run a class, so you get nothing out of it.
And, while wanting to look after your family is great, be careful not to be too consumed by slim possibilities, otherwise you can end up like this: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?77104-So-your-in-some-urban-hellhole
... or worse, this: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?91715-a-serious-question-of-real-life-application
@tkizzle05, I think you are maybe too caught in specifics at this point. I think it is like trying to season a sauce when you have not quite decided what you are cooking, does that make sense?
I am also worried that your desires may not be satisfied by *any* art and might perhaps need taming. Why? Because otherwise you may enter MA training with unrealistic expectations that will cause you to leave when not quickly fulfilled. I would not want that to happen since you seem to have genuine concern for yourself and your family. I can relate to that. I mean that to KO or effectively or disable opponents in a physical altercation off mats is not as straightforward as it always appears on Youtube, TV or cinema. We all aim to end altercations quickly and efficiently though one-shot-kills are not the focus of any defence. Safety is. All these fancy strikes are indeed possible and but I believe it may not be the best path for you to take to concentrate on such specific skills before you have begun your training.
Likewise, I would not suggest any specific self-defence tactics as what you read written down will not necessarily even stick in your head let alone pan out as such when you might require it most. Nor would I presume to suggest the best art for you. Only you can determine what you like, what feels right and but most importantly, what you will stick with long enough to give you the skills you need. So what I would instead suggest is that make yourself a deal to start looking around your area today if you have not already done so and aim to find a martial discipline that suits you - there is often a little (or sometimes a lot of) trial and error in finding what fits you best and but something will click and you will know this is what you want to put your effort into. It is at that point that you can first build, then hone your technique and learn how to generate and efficiently transmit and translate your energy through your movement the way you are describing.
In the meantime, please keep yourself aware of your environment. Try to know fully who is around and assess any potential threats before they become actual threats. If you are moving in a generally more threatening area or neighbourhood then do not give the benefit of the doubt to indeterminate potential threats, instead treat ALL potential threats as actual threats. This way you can avoid rather than having to confront. Appreciate what is going on about you and keep yourself as safe as you can while you are sampling the MA schools in your area. Everyone here or on other online places can offer advice. Only practicing a MA for yourself will give you the necessary skills and experience you are seeking. Once you get into it, I know you will understand. I wish you well. And welcome to MT
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Alright, time to pitch in. Lining people up is all well and good, but it doesnt last. Its a short term fix. Its mostly for whilst retreating. Retreating during a Fight.
During an Attack, You dont get such luxuries.
Generally, people will get lined up if the strongest of the pack is in on You, since He will incidentally block His followers with Himself. Again: Short term, and good luck being stable enough to try and make that happen.
Since Attacks occur within range to be attacked, throwing people isnt entirely reliable, due to the lack of time and space in which to do it without being bludgeoned.
Ultimately, youre better off just fighting back, in general. Since you obviously have no other choice if youre in that situation, knocking people down and driving them around will do better than running diagonally backwards to line them up. In other words, hit back, and keep hitting back. You might come out on top. Youre no more likely to succeed than if you get them into the perfect position to run you over whilst you flatfootedly try to rebalance.
Its too late at night for me to attempt to go into more detail, let alone some examples of more reliable methods. Im just speaking generally.
During an Attack, You dont get such luxuries.
Generally, people will get lined up if the strongest of the pack is in on You, since He will incidentally block His followers with Himself. Again: Short term, and good luck being stable enough to try and make that happen.
Since Attacks occur within range to be attacked, throwing people isnt entirely reliable, due to the lack of time and space in which to do it without being bludgeoned.
Ultimately, youre better off just fighting back, in general. Since you obviously have no other choice if youre in that situation, knocking people down and driving them around will do better than running diagonally backwards to line them up. In other words, hit back, and keep hitting back. You might come out on top. Youre no more likely to succeed than if you get them into the perfect position to run you over whilst you flatfootedly try to rebalance.
Its too late at night for me to attempt to go into more detail, let alone some examples of more reliable methods. Im just speaking generally.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
The 'get them in a line' works to a point, in the dojang. But you have to be super fit to keep them in a line. And in reality, it involves moving backwards so much that you've no time to take in your surroundings. You'll probably end up flat on your back after tripping over a kerb, like I did.
OP
OP
tkizzle05
Yellow Belt
*sigh*
Ok, the whole purpose of this is obviously self-defense. I asked if there was a style that focuses on fending off multiple enemies and has a focus on external power. I appreciate every ones posts, all of them. My thing is, you never know what can happen, I can be at Walmart and get mugged. I dont go anywhere that I believe would endanger my family. To give an example, my wife and I ordered some wings from a bar, she wanted to go in, but I decided to go in and pick them up instead. I got in paid the woman, and just sat there watching tv until they were done. Now in the background I hear "Hey we got 2 NEGROS" I was like what? So I turned around to try to get a glance at the guy and he was standing up next to this older black guy, then he looked at me. Then he said it again "aye aye, we got 2 negros" thats when I realized that me and the old guy were the only 2 black guys in the bar at the time. I wasnt really worried, but I had my guards up just in case. My initial thought was to knock this dude out, but then i probably would have gotten jumped or something, so I left went home ate the wings and started running through scenarios such as this in my head... Anyone can act without reason, I NEED to be prepared for that, I dont carry a gun, I dont carry a knife, and in that case if they wanted to do something I was not going to get to run away. So with all of that being said, my original question was formed. I take martial arts serious... its apart of me. I love fighting, I love training, I love studying, and I'm educated, I have my degree in business management and working on another, but what does any of that mean if I can be taken out by a single bullet???? To make it fair, lets call it what it is, Yeah I'm trying to equip myself with a DEALY art, but its for survival means only... If need be I want to KNOW how to KILL someones with my hands and feet only. I've studied TDK for 4 years, then moved onto JKD for about 6 months, then moved onto MMA I still do this for training purposes, but none of them seemed to meet my needs so far. There was one though, after MMA I was able to try out for a school called ZENTAI. Its ninjutsu, nothings perfect but this school was legit. I even told my family that place is not a place you would go to to train for weight loss or anything like that, its straight "incapacitate the person in front of you." I was in brutal pain after my 1st day, but loved it... The only thing that scared me away was the expensive fees, so I've been searching for something similar with a lower price.
Ok, the whole purpose of this is obviously self-defense. I asked if there was a style that focuses on fending off multiple enemies and has a focus on external power. I appreciate every ones posts, all of them. My thing is, you never know what can happen, I can be at Walmart and get mugged. I dont go anywhere that I believe would endanger my family. To give an example, my wife and I ordered some wings from a bar, she wanted to go in, but I decided to go in and pick them up instead. I got in paid the woman, and just sat there watching tv until they were done. Now in the background I hear "Hey we got 2 NEGROS" I was like what? So I turned around to try to get a glance at the guy and he was standing up next to this older black guy, then he looked at me. Then he said it again "aye aye, we got 2 negros" thats when I realized that me and the old guy were the only 2 black guys in the bar at the time. I wasnt really worried, but I had my guards up just in case. My initial thought was to knock this dude out, but then i probably would have gotten jumped or something, so I left went home ate the wings and started running through scenarios such as this in my head... Anyone can act without reason, I NEED to be prepared for that, I dont carry a gun, I dont carry a knife, and in that case if they wanted to do something I was not going to get to run away. So with all of that being said, my original question was formed. I take martial arts serious... its apart of me. I love fighting, I love training, I love studying, and I'm educated, I have my degree in business management and working on another, but what does any of that mean if I can be taken out by a single bullet???? To make it fair, lets call it what it is, Yeah I'm trying to equip myself with a DEALY art, but its for survival means only... If need be I want to KNOW how to KILL someones with my hands and feet only. I've studied TDK for 4 years, then moved onto JKD for about 6 months, then moved onto MMA I still do this for training purposes, but none of them seemed to meet my needs so far. There was one though, after MMA I was able to try out for a school called ZENTAI. Its ninjutsu, nothings perfect but this school was legit. I even told my family that place is not a place you would go to to train for weight loss or anything like that, its straight "incapacitate the person in front of you." I was in brutal pain after my 1st day, but loved it... The only thing that scared me away was the expensive fees, so I've been searching for something similar with a lower price.
So is this correct, you fear an opponent might have a gun? And rather than bother about diffusing, evading or avoiding, you want to know how in your words to "KILL them with your hands and feet"? If you want to know how to kill them (as opposed to defending yourself) would common sense not suggest that you just buy a gun?
I think you have asked the same question previously here only in a different way - with many of the same replies? Maybe you might think specifically what is causing you to lose faith in the various martial arts you are trialling or practicing? The more specific information you provide with regard to your training requirements the better folk here might be able to advise.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Because Lethal Force should always be an option.
Isnt it DirtyDog, who lost an eye for not acting forcefully sooner than He did?
Would You prefer to try Diffusing and Evading then get shot because the other gentleman didnt approve of Your antics? Normally when someone points a gun at You, its for a reason. And it isnt always an empty threat.
In addition, if You do carry a Gun, the other guy already has His pointed at You. So You plan on Drawing Yours to fire, and expect Him to not see it and shoot first?
EDIT: Im not discrediting Deescalation and all that jazz. Im saying it shouldnt be Your only option, since it wont always be available.
Reality check:
No martial art will make you invincible. Plain and simple, the only way to stop a bullet is with armor or solid cover. If guns are what you're most worried about, buy body armor, buy a gun, and practice with it. Martial arts are of minimal use against a gun.
Multiple attackers? Even two people are difficult to beat. Three to five? Unless you've got a script writer in your back pocket like Chuck Norris does -- real unlikely, and almost certain you'll be hurt, and possibly badly. If your family is with you, that adds a whole new set of concerns and constraints. Do you really want to be tied up with some bad guy while your family is vulnerable to his buddies?
You've got a bit of experience; take that and shop. Look at different schools and different programs. Find a school that you think has a decent chance of providing you the tools you feel you need. They all offer something; most arts have survived for several generations for some sort of reason, no? The real key to making any art functional and useful is how you choose to train it. You can train in the most effective art you can name -- but if you never move it out of idealized situations and never experience any pressure while training, you're just dancing.
No martial art will make you invincible. Plain and simple, the only way to stop a bullet is with armor or solid cover. If guns are what you're most worried about, buy body armor, buy a gun, and practice with it. Martial arts are of minimal use against a gun.
Multiple attackers? Even two people are difficult to beat. Three to five? Unless you've got a script writer in your back pocket like Chuck Norris does -- real unlikely, and almost certain you'll be hurt, and possibly badly. If your family is with you, that adds a whole new set of concerns and constraints. Do you really want to be tied up with some bad guy while your family is vulnerable to his buddies?
You've got a bit of experience; take that and shop. Look at different schools and different programs. Find a school that you think has a decent chance of providing you the tools you feel you need. They all offer something; most arts have survived for several generations for some sort of reason, no? The real key to making any art functional and useful is how you choose to train it. You can train in the most effective art you can name -- but if you never move it out of idealized situations and never experience any pressure while training, you're just dancing.
That would be me...
Which is one major reason why in addition to "deescalate and diffuse" I believe in "distract"... and then drop them by the most expedient method available.
OP
OP
tkizzle05
Yellow Belt
Not quite, I dont fear anyone who has a gun, I just choose not to have one. I cant imagine killing anyone, but if I MUST then I'd rather it be my hands. Ok, lets just say incapacitate, because I know I dont have the heart to just KILL anyone, but I still want that type of training, the art of deadly combat, does that make sense???? Im in the army, and they do have combatives, but its limited in the things they show you, I want an arsenal.
If you do not fear someone with a gun, then you're a fool. The most deadly martial arts I can think of are the twin arts of chic-chi-pow and Gunfu.
And frankly, if you seriously think that your desire to stand against multiple attackers and the statement that you "don't have the heart to just KILL anyone" are not mutually exclusive, then you might as well plan on riding away from the fight on your unicorn.
I don't care what art you train in, or how long. When you're faced with multiple attackers, your only realistic survival plan is to kill or cripple as many as possible, as quickly as possible. It's not Hollywood, and they're not going to fight you one at a time.
Bullcrap. I absolutely guarantee I can stop a bullet! I just can't do it TWICE.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
OP
OP
tkizzle05
Yellow Belt
Gun or not, I'm not afraid of any human. I believe its foolish to fear any man, vs. the god who created them. That's not an issue, however, your point is one to consider... If my life is being threatened by multiple guys then I have no choice but to cripple and/or kill them before my life is taken. I know how to use a gun and all but I dont want to have to do that. Realistically, the guy that gets beaten up usually retaliates later on with a bullet. Even still, I see no reason to carry one at the time, so I choose to work with what I have. Its not like im out engaging in violent activities, im not looking for trouble, but trouble finds us. I just want to take my training to the next level, thats all... Maybe do things someone else has never been able to do.
Have any of you heard of Kuk Sool Won??? IF so do u mind shedding light on what type of system it is exactly??? ITs a gym close by, may look into that.
Have any of you heard of Kuk Sool Won??? IF so do u mind shedding light on what type of system it is exactly??? ITs a gym close by, may look into that.
Last edited:
oaktree
Master of Arts
I am all for standing by your beliefs and moral code
But personally I throw all that out the window if I
Have to save my family. Killing is a difficult choice but
Saving someone you love shouldn't be. And if I have to
Take a life who is trying to or may take my family
member's life then I do what I must. I'm not advocating
killing I am advocating protecting your family at any cost
Deem necessary.
But personally I throw all that out the window if I
Have to save my family. Killing is a difficult choice but
Saving someone you love shouldn't be. And if I have to
Take a life who is trying to or may take my family
member's life then I do what I must. I'm not advocating
killing I am advocating protecting your family at any cost
Deem necessary.
Really just find a good instructor and train train train.
As far as an arsenal, I recommend 2 mac-10's, like a hundred ninja stars, an AK or two, a batlef, a Scottish broadsword, a clown suit, and a chain saw. At all times.
Really you can get away with just the clown suit and chainsaw. Seriously. Who would want to mess with that??
Maybe some grenades, too.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
Yes, I know exactly how you are projecting you are feeling. As you are listening but you really are not. Yet, with our questions, you keep givinng more information that gives us more in our let us say diagnosis of the problem.
Yes *sigh*
I do not think that is true. I think it it about self confidence. You got scared. It made you think and worry. You think this is a bad thing. Only the last is wrong.
Getting scared is human. It is the sain thing to do. It also helps you if you act. You thought which is also good. You worried and want to make things better. This is good. Yet you might have found that in the end there is something you cannot do and no you asking for something that cannot happen. Which why we all sighed when you first posted and have continued to do so, but tried to help. You seem frustrated, yet still wanting to try. This is good. So please understand I am not attacking you personally. We here are trying to honstly help.
** Note My Contact information can be found on my website. E-mail and phone number. Feel free to track me down there is you think it will help. **
You asked for multiple people. External Power and Internal Power. People told you there were many and got there in different paths. It always takes a long time. As with most people they do not want the long path they want the easy path. *sigh* Yes I beating this dead horse, but it really is a sigh point.
Yes, at any moment somone can assasinate you. And there is nothing you can do. You can keep a low profile. You can have a good job and live in a good neighborhood and go places that are safe you lower your chances of being assaulted and or injured. But to take it to zero is not going to happen. To have the Magic that stops all pain and injury form ahppening is not going to happen.
Racism sucks. I have been called evey name in the book. It does hurt. I understand. Yet it is only up to you to decide if you will allow them to hurt you a little or a lot. Pity them and their stupidity, yes it is stupidity for ignorance is lack of knowledge, it is training and brain washing.
Did you raise your hands or just mental guards.
Why attack him? For if you swing first it would be you in trouble with the law. Yes being jumped or something could have happened and then everyone could have stated you came in started trouble and press charges against. Walking away was the right thing to do and for more than one reason. Long term it was the better option for your families safety.
Yes, going home was good. Thinking was good. It is good. Keep it up.
Being prepared is good. But as stated already by me and others, you cannot stop every possible situation. If you find away, you may find a way to have world peace.
Good. Then train well. Find what you want, but put realistic expectations on it.
I train a small group. A few officers, and a soon to be officer. They have all said what we train is lethal and they have to roll it back to what is allowed by the law enforcement training mandates. I am not saying train with me. I am saying persepctive. One mans normal training could be lethal from another point of view. And yet there are some that say we do not take it far enough.
You need to look around and find what you want. The problem is it may be a distance off or the cost may be more than the rest. Always you have to decide what you can afford and what you really want. What you are willing to sacrafice for knowledge or gaining peace of mind.
*sigh*
TKD Sparring?
MMA Sport fighting?
Back alley fighting ?
So with rules or just going out and getting hurt or hurting others?
Good you have a degree in business management and working on another. Is it an Associates or Bachelors you and and what are you working on? And good work on what you have accomplished already and for continuing for more.
Education is a way of reducing risk. The mroe education you have the more likely you are to live in a safer neighborhood and work in a safer field and position and thereby reduce the risk of being shot. Like I have said I know people that the last time they had a confrontation was in kindergarten when someone pushed them down.
I repeat nothing is going to stop that assasination from a sniper rifle from a long distance. If you are the target by random or on purpose it is not going to get to 0 chance of happening. You can do things to reduce risk. If your family is really the issue and not that you like fighting and you want to prove something to yourself.
I am concerned that you need to know how to KILL someone with your hands and or feet. There is a reason many gangs initiate with drive by shootings. It is much easier to pull the trigger of a gun while your eyes are closed then it is to walk up to someone and on purpose face to face take their life. Most people do not have the trait to just walk up to someone and do that.
I say go back and thinkg some more. Why are you wanting this? As I stated, I think you were scared (* which is a good thing *), and you thought about it (* which is a good thing *), and now you want to be safe (* which is a good thing *), yet, you want to have this magic result happen and make you safe (* this is a bad thiing in my opinion as it is unrealistic *).
Think about what you can do to reduce risk. Live that way. By life insurance. Repair your vehicles so they do not break down. Eat better food and continue to work out and be healthy. Live long and see your grand kids is a good plan. The plan to reduce risk is a good thing. Just do it realistically and look for goals other than just violence to attack as well.
*smile* ** Data to work with **
Have you stopped your TKD? Which system? If you stopped why did you stop? What rank did you have?
What did you not like about JKD? With whom were you training?
MMA, is a good training workout. Are you happy here with your fighting? Is the training good for you? I understand it might not address the safety issues you have, but it might address the aggression you have presented here in your words. Having the outlet is not a bad thing, it can actually be a good thing. If you like it, you can continue to train it and work on the other aspects I have mentioned.
So you have left MMA as you stated after MMA?
If you really like the Zentai training location, it might be worth the cost. Only you can decide. How much is this path to safety, versus the others mentioned worth to you? which ones are long term and which are short term. Only you can decide yout path, and if the cost is worht it to you.
I had a student who did kook sul won. He was quite good. Worth a try anyway, but not vastly different from Taekwondo.
Me I find bravery more useful than restlessness.
But I think if 5 clowns with chainsaws came at you, you would be plenty afraid.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
Similar threads
- disciple
- Aikido
