What to do.

[Rollo06]

After a long spell of martial arts training in my 20s and 30s, I am thinking of starting up martial arts again. And now my 50s though.

Despite my age, I’m looking for not just a martial dance, but also something that has a certain amount of techniques that you would like to think would work not that you would necessary intend on getting in testing situations. But it’s nice to train something that gives you the sense of you’re actually learning a martial art as well as getting fit.

Now here’s the rub, there are only two classes in my media area. One is Wing Chun and we’re all fully familiar with I would assume the other Shōtōkai karate. I can get all the information I need on the Wing Chun but it’s really difficult getting information on ShotoKai karate.

Karate general appeals to me because I come from a background of tae kwon do. I have tried Wing Chun before but it wasn’t a particularly good School and I didn’t stay at it but I do want to do something. These are my two choices anyone out there that’s had experience in shotokai. I know it doesn’t compete as a style, but I just like to know more about the style. Does it actually possess realistic techniques? Or is it just a case of, it’s a traditional art but sticks to traditional Budo principles? Because the literature I’m reading it’s almost coming across like it’s a well-being art rather than anything else. But I like to understand the bunkai of things if you will. Will this style give me that?

 

[Gyakuto100]

Despite my age, I’m looking for not just a martial dance, but also something that has a certain amount of techniques that you would like to think would work not that you would necessary intend on getting in testing situations.

That’s what we all want but we just don’t know not least because there are a vast number of factors that impinge on ‘effectiveness’; the system, how good you are at delivering its techniques (most people in the martial arts are pretty inept), how good a fighter your enemy is, weather conditions, motivation etc etc. You, have to make a judgement before you devote your time and effort to the art. It makes sense to assume that an art that uses every body weapon, will be better than one that hardly uses kicking, for example, but then good boxers are just incredible fighters

Now here’s the rub, there are only two classes in my media area. One is Wing Chun and we’re all fully familiar with I would assume the other Shōtōkai karate. I can get all the information I need on the Wing Chun but it’s really difficult getting information on ShotoKai karate.

You seem to be between a rock and a hard place! Of the two, I’d say Karate matches your desired criteria.

Does it actually possess realistic techniques?

Who knows?

Or is it just a case of, it’s a traditional art but sticks to traditional Budo principles?

It is far more ‘Budo’ that say Shotokan.

Sorry I can’t be more helpful but the more you practise and learn, the more you realise just how little you know.

 

[EskrimaFan]

After a long spell of martial arts training in my 20s and 30s, I am thinking of starting up martial arts again. And now my 50s though.

Despite my age, I’m looking for not just a martial dance, but also something that has a certain amount of techniques that you would like to think would work not that you would necessary intend on getting in testing situations. But it’s nice to train something that gives you the sense of you’re actually learning a martial art as well as getting fit.

Now here’s the rub, there are only two classes in my media area. One is Wing Chun and we’re all fully familiar with I would assume the other Shōtōkai karate. I can get all the information I need on the Wing Chun but it’s really difficult getting information on ShotoKai karate.

Karate general appeals to me because I come from a background of tae kwon do. I have tried Wing Chun before but it wasn’t a particularly good School and I didn’t stay at it but I do want to do something. These are my two choices anyone out there that’s had experience in shotokai. I know it doesn’t compete as a style, but I just like to know more about the style. Does it actually possess realistic techniques? Or is it just a case of, it’s a traditional art but sticks to traditional Budo principles? Because the literature I’m reading it’s almost coming across like it’s a well-being art rather than anything else. But I like to understand the bunkai of things if you will. Will this style give me that?

I think Karate would be a good choice.

I'm starting Kyokushin Karate after the summer, and I'm almost 47. My unarmed background is mostly Silat, and I have been more into the weapon arts last 7 - 8 years.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf100]

Regardless of what experience anyone here has with either, the most obvious answer is try both out. It could be the greatest martial art in the world, but if taught badly it doesn't matter. Similarly, a 'bad' martial art (within limits) can be taught in a practical manner and still be good.

Then there's the atmosphere of both places which may or may not work with you for whatever reason, regardless of the quality.

 

[Same Trick46]

Here’s the Shotokai encyclopedia-

Shotokai Karate-do & Budo Encyclopedia Home - Shotokai Encyclopedia & Japanese Martial Arts

Karate Do Shotokai, Budo and Martial Arts Resource on Shotokai, Budo and Karate in general, an extensive and in-depth bilingual source on traditional Japanese Martial Arts. […]

shotokai.com

 

[isshinryuronin]

I can’t be more helpful but the more you practise and learn, the more you realise just how little you know.

You must have practiced and learned a lot! !
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Leam_Hall]

You've gotten some good advice, let me add a path to think about as you evaluate. As @Monkey Turned Wolf said, try both. The atmosphere will tell you a lot about who you will become if you train there. If it's exactly what you want, then fantastic!

I'm older than you and also did TKD in my 20's-30's. Several years ago I tried Wing Chun, it has a great inside game for real situations if you get to a good school. Sifu Jason Korol has several good books, maybe give Wing Chun for the Modern Warrior a read. Sifu Jason is a good guy that I've interacted with personally, and as an old person with a bad back I much prefer the "less moving and kicking" styles.

The other thing you may want to consider is widening your search distance by only going to train once or twice a month. I lived in the UK decades ago and the public transit system was great. All the best training is self-training anyway. A good teacher shows you technique and explains things, but if you're not training at home then you're really just going to a social fitness club.

If you're in the UK, look up Rob Poyton and Matt Hill. They teach Systema, which is much nicer for us old folks. Relaxation is a key principle; it increases speed and response options. We also punch each other a lot. Both Rob and Matt have books on things you can practice at home, and if you find, or start, a Systema training club then you have lots of people to punch you.

The real issues are your age and experience. You're past the "this is how you punch" stage but you're in the "this needs to work for my body and energy level" stage. It is unlikely that *any* purely traditional martial art will fit your body and capabilities. The trick is to find an instructor and art that lets you be a much better and more capable you.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

ya karate is better for u

 

[clyde-cash]

After a long spell of martial arts training in my 20s and 30s, I am thinking of starting up martial arts again. And now my 50s though.

Despite my age, I’m looking for not just a martial dance, but also something that has a certain amount of techniques that you would like to think would work not that you would necessary intend on getting in testing situations. But it’s nice to train something that gives you the sense of you’re actually learning a martial art as well as getting fit.

Now here’s the rub, there are only two classes in my media area. One is Wing Chun and we’re all fully familiar with I would assume the other Shōtōkai karate. I can get all the information I need on the Wing Chun but it’s really difficult getting information on ShotoKai karate.

Karate general appeals to me because I come from a background of tae kwon do. I have tried Wing Chun before but it wasn’t a particularly good School and I didn’t stay at it but I do want to do something. These are my two choices anyone out there that’s had experience in shotokai. I know it doesn’t compete as a style, but I just like to know more about the style. Does it actually possess realistic techniques? Or is it just a case of, it’s a traditional art but sticks to traditional Budo principles? Because the literature I’m reading it’s almost coming across like it’s a well-being art rather than anything else. But I like to understand the bunkai of things if you will. Will this style give me that?

Go with the karate 100%. If you put enough into it you can do anything with karate, I'd be uneasy investing real money into learning Wing Chun tbh.

I'm not really trying to dig into wing chun or anything, I love Chinese Martial Arts, but a good karate circle will actually give you an opportunity to grow a holistic skillset and even practice CMA in the wild.

As long as the school lets you pressure test, that gives you an open canvas for anything you want to learn. Never invest money into a school that doesn't let you actually spar. If they don't spar regularly, it's a scam.

 

[Gyakuto100]

But is this true of Shotokai, the only option the OP suggests he has? He’s clearly read something about the style and doesn’t seem very keen.

 

[isshinryuronin]

If they don't spar regularly, it's a scam.

If you equate sparring as a sport/competitive activity, depending on the karate school, it's NOT a scam. Sparring did not come into fashion until the 1930's, and that was in Japan where karate was pushed as a sport (competing against another with similar training).

Original Okinawan karate prior to WWII was self-defense oriented, still adhered to by a number of traditional schools. Here, partner training with resistance was the main fighting practice, the goal being not to score numerous points but to finish an opponent ASAP using techniques not allowed in sport.

I favor some sparring but also believe it's important to preserve the essence of original style karate which was never intended to be a sport. While there is overlap, they are really two different things.

 

[Prince_Alarming100]

Would anyone like a giant bucket of cocal cola? No? Nibbles?

 

[windwalker099100]

If you're in the UK, look up Rob Poyton and Matt Hill. They teach Systema,

Have watched Rob, evolve over the yrs on the net…never met him in person but like his work…A highly practical and real world teacher.

For those I’ve worked with, moving due to work or life, looking for another method to work with, often recommended Systema … to continue their training, something similar to our own method..

 

[clyde-cash]

If you equate sparring as a sport/competitive activity, depending on the karate school, it's NOT a scam. Sparring did not come into fashion until the 1930's, and that was in Japan where karate was pushed as a sport (competing against another with similar training).

Original Okinawan karate prior to WWII was self-defense oriented, still adhered to by a number of traditional schools. Here, partner training with resistance was the main fighting practice, the goal being not to score numerous points but to finish an opponent ASAP using techniques not allowed in sport.

I favor some sparring but also believe it's important to preserve the essence of original style karate which was never intended to be a sport. While there is overlap, they are really two different things.

Definitely, that's the nuance I was missing. I just get frustrated when there's no resistance training at all, it really limits your growth as a martial artist.

No resistance training can completely kill some arts like Aikido, Hapkido. Taijiquan etc... They're obviously effective arts but the way they're trained in modern day completely kills the original aspect because they're missing a whole feature in the training.

For me personally, I much prefer freestyle resistance training like you mentioned over sport sparring, but I have to say sport sparring makes the art more accessible.

 

[drop bear100]

 

[opr194598]

what is "a giant bucket of cocal cola?"

Coca-Cola
Carbonated soft drink brand
?

 

[Prince_Alarming100]

It's just I was expecting that to go south a lot further than it did