Handleing all those know it all.

[terryl965]

How do you or your school handle those student that all ready know everything and never ever trained in anything?

Today one of my new gentleman has never taken anything and everytime I tried toi show him a tech. all he said was this want work and that is not right and I saw this or that on TV reality shows and youtube and you must be teaching everything wrong.

Yes I talked to him after class but to no results, he did say he would see me friday, bit I feel like calling him and saying please do not come back.

So I'm looking for some quality advice.

 

[jks9199]

How do you or your school handle those student that all ready know everything and never ever trained in anything?

Today one of my new gentleman has never taken anything and everytime I tried toi show him a tech. all he said was this want work and that is not right and I saw this or that on TV reality shows and youtube and you must be teaching everything wrong.

Yes I talked to him after class but to no results, he did say he would see me friday, bit I feel like calling him and saying please do not come back.

So I'm looking for some quality advice.

Well...

I've been sorely tempted to simply agree, and then prove them wrong at my convenience. But that'd be immature, right?

Depending on the person, I simply stop correcting and teaching them. I know of at least one or two occasions where my instructor stopped teaching something to the entire class rather than deal with that sort of idiocy. With my current students, it's usually enough to ask them what color my belt is versus theirs... A not exactly gentle reminder of who's the teacher, in other words.

Or -- if they're enough of a disruption or problem, ask them to leave.

 

[IcemanSK]

This guy has it figured out already, Terry. Why is he there?

I know some folks say odd things when start out of nervousness. It's a way to be in control in a place where they aren't. If this is the case, it can be addressed in an understanding manner. (I know it looks like something on tv, but this technique can do a lot of damage). However, if it's because he's convinced he knows better, show him the door.

Addressing possible nervousness is a good way to approach it, first. I've had students admit it & relax enough to be able to learn. I've also had the other that I've shown the door.

 

[Sukerkin]

That's an interesting twist, Terry, someone who knows it all when they come in and still think so when they leave after lesson one.

Usually, the 'Preconception Brigade' have their illusions shattered in their first session, mainly because they suddenly realise that martial arts "ain't easy after all" and see those, who do know what they're doing, going through their paces.

Of course, the first lesson is always going to be very basic and, if it's a 'same skill level' class then the know-it-all isn't going to see anything to challenge his opinions.

If the 'get the foundations right first' talk didn't get through but he still turns up to the next class and still feels the same way, you can try the hackneyed but effective tactic of giving him the freedom to try things 'his way' against you. You don't need to hurt him (tho' it helps ), just show him that when practised diligently and done correctly, the forms of your art are quite effective after all.

I did the same many (MANY!) years ago against a young chap who'd done a little boxing and came along to our Lau Gar class to see what it was all about. He was not impressed by all the "poncing about" so, after explaining that I wasn't after making him or my art look stupid, I asked him to take his best shot at me (whilst we were on mats (most of the time we sparred without)).

As I said this was long ago, when it seems even the 'troublesome' chaps had some sort of honour and I correctly anticipated that he would jab with the left and roundhouse with the right rather than anything 'underhand'. I blocked, caught, dropped and swept, leaving him on his back wondering what the heck happened. He was still with us when my bike accident ended my kung fu career.

I can't say that this will work with everyone but most chaps will be made to reconsider if they find their misconceptions so directly confronted.

 

[exile]

Well...

Or -- if they're enough of a disruption or problem, ask them to leave.

Terry, I think that, in bold, is the crucial part.

If they're disruptive, if they compromise the class, then you are not only within your ethical rights to ask them to leave, you're kind of obliged to, because of your obligations to the rest of your class, to provide them with the best instruction you can.

If they're just pigheaded, not disruptive but that kind of stubborn that borders on dopiness, then my approach is, just go on and teach as usual, and if they come up to you with objections, just say, `You know what? After 40+ years doing this stuff, I have to say, I think it works best the way I'm showing you, not the way you think it works.' The main thing is, don't spend a lot of time disputing it, because the more attention you give it, the more they'll think they're really onto something.

If you just tell them, no, it's not like that, sorry—just short and sweet—it'll save a lot of wear and tear on you and leave them with the choice: stay and follow you, or leave. Either way, problem solved.

 

[Jai]

It is all a matter of how you feel to best deal with it. When I was coming up in the ranks the last thing anyone did was talk down to or show this kind of attitude to any black belt, let alone an instructor. This was just not acceptable. If word of something like this got around the know it all usually did not last long. Sometimes small hints worked, sometimes you had to be blunt.
I give you a great amount of respect for not smashing him into little pieces for his attitude to begin with. Personally I would give him another night, if the same kind of attitude shows through, I would show him the door for reasons mentioned above, by whatever means you feel are warranted.

 

[Marginal]

How do you or your school handle those student that all ready know everything and never ever trained in anything?

Today one of my new gentleman has never taken anything and everytime I tried toi show him a tech. all he said was this want work and that is not right and I saw this or that on TV reality shows and youtube and you must be teaching everything wrong.

Yes I talked to him after class but to no results, he did say he would see me friday, bit I feel like calling him and saying please do not come back.

So I'm looking for some quality advice.

One guy and his friend came a class I was in once. He said his name was Paul, and that he'd learned "Street Shotokan" and some Jeet Kun Do. (his pal didn't introduce himself, but announced that he practiced BJJ, which I kinda doubt.) Paul went through kicking drills with us, and wanted to spar until the instructor told he he couldn't spar with his street shoes on. He sat down with his pal and started chatting away.

After sparring, he instructor called him back to class. Paul replied with, "We're having a conversation."

We never saw Paul or his bosom buddy ever again.

Our loss?

 

[Jai]

After sparring, he instructor called him back to class. Paul replied with, "We're having a conversation."

We never saw Paul or his bosom buddy ever again.

Our loss?

Not at all *snickers*

 

[RED]

K.I.S.S. Keep it simple ...sensei.... I would simply say "this isn't youtube this is my class you have come to me for instruction so you can eventualy do the stuff you see or read about now will you let me teach you?" Eventually he will get the hint and either comply or quit. Either way you win. No need to be rude or forceful (risking a reputation), a simple little catch fraze (you're doing again) will give him the hint each time he wants to be controlling. If he is disrespectful about it then ask him to leave if he wont comply. These people often dont realize how controlling they are and need a small reminder. It may be nervousness too or it could be other things. Just keep it simple it doesn't need to be a big issue. Good Luck

 

[newGuy12]

As I said this was long ago, when it seems even the 'troublesome' chaps had some sort of honour and I correctly anticipated that he would jab with the left and roundhouse with the right rather than anything 'underhand'. I blocked, caught, dropped and swept, leaving him on his back wondering what the heck happened. He was still with us when my bike accident ended my kung fu career.

Awesome! Its either this way, or the highway, in my estimation, that is after the "nervous response" has been ruled out. But mind you, I am not a Teacher. I mostly wanted to say how awesome this scenario was!

 

[Xue Sheng]

How do you or your school handle those student that all ready know everything and never ever trained in anything?

Today one of my new gentleman has never taken anything and everytime I tried toi show him a tech. all he said was this want work and that is not right and I saw this or that on TV reality shows and youtube and you must be teaching everything wrong.

Yes I talked to him after class but to no results, he did say he would see me friday, bit I feel like calling him and saying please do not come back.

So I'm looking for some quality advice.

My taiji sifu tends to ignore them and eventually they go away.

My Xingyi sifu was a bit more abrupt "Hmm nice, now do you want to learn or not?" and/or "yeah, as I was saying"

When I taught and when I teach to help my sifu I tend to follow my taiji sifu's led these days and show them if they listen fine if they don't I don't show them again, If they follow fine but unless things change I'mdone with them.

 

[Jai]

Red is alot nicer then me... but I like the idea as well.

 

[tellner]

All excellent suggestions. I always remember what Harry Truman said. If you're going to dress a man down never do it in public. I'd pull him aside after class, explain my concerns explain what is expected of him. That should be enough. If things don't improve it's time to fire the customer.

Sometimes, just once in a while, the newcomer really does know more.

Two of the newest people in the local Sera group kind of a Mutt and Jeff pair. She's maybe five foot ought. He's about six four, and proportioned like an average sized person, no tiny torso with extra long legs. He's also had fifteen solid years of Silat with one of the most respected teachers in the Netherlands, a lot of extra training with his adopted Indonesian family in Indonesia and a certain number of "Proof of Concept" incidents.

Anyhow, she wanted to learn Silat. They didn't know Guru Plinck was taking new students, so they went to a local Dutch-Indonesian martial arts school. It's part of a franchise that has a good half dozen schools in the area. He went for grins and giggles, to spend time with and because he's protective of his friends.

Let's just say it wasn't a happy thing. He really did know more than the teacher. He'd been doing Silat longer and with more dedication with much better teachers. And he's got that special Dutch, err, "forthrightness". I think it started when an assistant in the beginners' class literally six months' experience was telling him that he was doing basic techniques wrong. And then to be told by the instructor that he had to "empty his cup" and give up all of his previous training because otherwise he would never understand Pencak Silat and that, further, he could not work out with his friend because she was now more advanced than he, so it wouldn't be safe for him.

According to his friend the two of them left about the time they were starting to spar - after just a couple months. He found out that when White Belts spar with Black Belts the White Belts are permitted to hit, but the BBs are assumed to be infinitely better and are not allowed to hit the newbies. She says that he smiled and said "You mean I can hit you but you can't hit me? Great!" It sort of went downhill from there, and they didn't come back.

Now they train with our teacher and seem to be having a great time. So it's all good. Nobody got hurt. The school is happier without them. They're definitely happier without the school. Nobody got tossed out of anything, and he didn't have to thump anyone too hard.

So yes, sometimes the know it all really does know what he's talking about. It's up to the student not to rub it in or dominate the class. And it's up to the teacher to recognize it and not pull out the measuring tape if he's going to come up short in front of his students.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Terry, I think how you handle the situation always depends on each individual person. Sometimes taking them aside is good, sometimes being forthright is good, sometimes showing them how it works and why it is effective via commuting it along their body, sometimes providing an example for the rest of the class through serious intense pain :erg: and transitionary movement, or sometimes just not teaching them anymore and they go away,etc. Each individual needs a unique special touch. Personally maybe due to the way I teach or the seriousness of how I teach this is not really an issue as usually there is no doubt as to who is running the show.

Having witnessed your teaching I am surprised this happened as there also is no doubt as to who is running the show in your class. Still evaluate how you think you should handle and what makes you feel good and then implement your choice.

 

[terryl965]

That's an interesting twist, Terry, someone who knows it all when they come in and still think so when they leave after lesson one.

Usually, the 'Preconception Brigade' have their illusions shattered in their first session, mainly because they suddenly realise that martial arts "ain't easy after all" and see those, who do know what they're doing, going through their paces.

Of course, the first lesson is always going to be very basic and, if it's a 'same skill level' class then the know-it-all isn't going to see anything to challenge his opinions.

If the 'get the foundations right first' talk didn't get through but he still turns up to the next class and still feels the same way, you can try the hackneyed but effective tactic of giving him the freedom to try things 'his way' against you. You don't need to hurt him (tho' it helps ), just show him that when practised diligently and done correctly, the forms of your art are quite effective after all.

I did the same many (MANY!) years ago against a young chap who'd done a little boxing and came along to our Lau Gar class to see what it was all about. He was not impressed by all the "poncing about" so, after explaining that I wasn't after making him or my art look stupid, I asked him to take his best shot at me (whilst we were on mats (most of the time we sparred without)).

As I said this was long ago, when it seems even the 'troublesome' chaps had some sort of honour and I correctly anticipated that he would jab with the left and roundhouse with the right rather than anything 'underhand'. I blocked, caught, dropped and swept, leaving him on his back wondering what the heck happened. He was still with us when my bike accident ended my kung fu career.

I can't say that this will work with everyone but most chaps will be made to reconsider if they find their misconceptions so directly confronted.

You know we knocked him around a bit just to prove a few things and he still believes he is right. I have never ever seen this before. Well like they say we see everything one way or another.

 

[HelloKitty]

If he "knows everything" then he doesn't need to go to the school. (evidently that's not the case) But if he's going to join your classes he must show the respect you deserve as a master or instructor. It's basic education.

Maybe he was nervous and talked no sense. You could remaind him a couple of things that seem forgotten by him, but if the situation continues, it's very logical you ask him not to come back again.

Good luck with that, Terry!

 

[Kacey]

If he "knows everything" to the point that he's telling you things don't work - he doesn't need an instructor; he thinks he is one. If he is asking how things work, that's a whole other issue.

You need to talk to him privately and ask him why he's in your class, in a non-confrontational way - ask him about his previous experience(s) and where he's getting his information from, and then go from there.

 

[Carol]

How do you or your school handle those student that all ready know everything and never ever trained in anything?

Today one of my new gentleman has never taken anything and everytime I tried toi show him a tech. all he said was this want work and that is not right and I saw this or that on TV reality shows and youtube and you must be teaching everything wrong.

Yes I talked to him after class but to no results, he did say he would see me friday, bit I feel like calling him and saying please do not come back.

So I'm looking for some quality advice.

Get him back in to target as best and as quickly as you can. Pay no attention to what he's saying except to remind him that you are working on xxxxxx now.

Take the emotion out of the situation and treat it the same way you would treat a highschool chatterbox that can't stop gabbing with her friends or about what's going on with her friends....or the sports nut that keeps going on and on about last night's game when you're trying to teach.

If the environment is casual enough to encourage a lot of off-topic chatter, then that may be something that needs to tighten up a bit. Sure hearing "this doesn't work," can be a disruption, but it also sucks to be trying to concentrate on a form when the people next to you are rambling on about the Cowboys. Or the new person in class wants to bring everyone to the bible study at their new church. Or the teenager that's playing division 1 ball that goes about the mat trying to talk the other students to come to him after class and buy candy bars that he's selling as a team fundraiser....and so on, and so on...

Thats not to insinuate that you aren't running a focused class, but even skilled teachers need to change their disciplinary levels as their student membership changes. Good luck

 

[jks9199]

If he "knows everything" to the point that he's telling you things don't work - he doesn't need an instructor; he thinks he is one. If he is asking how things work, that's a whole other issue.

You need to talk to him privately and ask him why he's in your class, in a non-confrontational way - ask him about his previous experience(s) and where he's getting his information from, and then go from there.

There's a good point here and an important distinction.

I've got some very bright kids training, and they'll "how" and "why" stuff to death sometimes. It's not that they doubt what I'm saying -- it's that they're geared to ask, and have never been held to simply "do what you're told." They want to understand it before they do it... And that doesn't always work with martial arts. That's usually when I simply ask what color their belt is... Occasionally, I have to drive something home a little more directly.

That's different than someone who "already knows it all!"

 

[DArnold]

How do you or your school handle those student that all ready know everything and never ever trained in anything?

Today one of my new gentleman has never taken anything and everytime I tried toi show him a tech. all he said was this want work and that is not right and I saw this or that on TV reality shows and youtube and you must be teaching everything wrong.

Yes I talked to him after class but to no results, he did say he would see me friday, bit I feel like calling him and saying please do not come back.

So I'm looking for some quality advice.

Didn't someone say???

"Do not cast your pearls before swine"

Spend your time with those who wish your knowledge!