Negative Experience with 3rd Dan

[ralphmcpherson]

I wouldn't waste my time responding or attempting to explain. The discussion started with dancingalone, who lives in the United States, discussing issues that he may have if he takes over a commercial school. In the United States, the Taekwondo schools tend to be populated with children, which even dancingalone acknowledged early in the discussion. I'm trying to think if any of my friends have schools with primarily adults and the only ones that come to mind are college clubs, not commercial schools. I know some who are building up their adult population by encouraging parents to study along side their children as a family activity but for the most part, taekwondo dojang in the US have children as the primary student base. Perhaps it is different in Australia, I don't know. What I do know is constantly horning into the discussion by saying in Australia it is different doesn't help dancingalone with his potential commercial dojang in the US, which no doubt will be populated mostly with children. Put another way, if the discussion were about dojang in Australia, I probably would limit my participation to the asking of some questions. I certainly wouldn't barge in by insisting that it is different in the US. I may mention once for comparison purposes the differences, but I wouldn't try to steer the discussion towards the US, because no doubt Australia has a different culture and they probably do things and thinkI dont know how you can constantly say the differently about it.

Firstly, you may want to go back to the OP where you will realise this discussion never started with anything to do with dancingalone taking over a commercial school. It was actually started by someone else discussing problems with a student with an attitutude problem. Secondly, The conversation has not been constantly honed into saying australia is different, in fact this thread is into its 8th or 9th page and I think one or two references have been made regarding australia. The second reference was made because another poster asked me about the sizes of clubs over here. I just made the point that it appears listening to you that the only way you can run a commercial club in the states is to "hand out black belts to keep the kiddies interested". I dont believe this to be the case, at least I certainly hope its not.

 

[ETinCYQX]

I want to share this, a small child with poom, even a tennage with a poom or dan has not the maturity to handle certain things, he/she is not prepared to take the responsability that is to be a black belt now picture this having high dan grades on a teen. I've seen such jerks as a 20-25 years old black belts that feel like the last coke on desert.

It's simple a child or a teen does not have the maturity to wear a high rank inside a martial art.

Yestarday in a judo dojo i met a 14 years old who is training with his sensei since 7, this teen weara a blue belt and sensei told me he's working in his brown belt but I think that maybe this teen at 15 would be elegible to be a brown belt and then maybe at 18 would become a black belt and we are talking about 11 years of full training to get his black belt 1st Dan.

Personally I am against giving black belt status to childen and teenagers period.

Manny

How old does "teen" apply to? 13? 16? 19?

I'm an engineering student, I'm allowed to operate a car, I can legally vote, and I've been training since I was six. Because I'm 18, I shouldn't be allowed to be a black belt? I have a fair amount of respect for you based on your posts here but this stance I disagree with. I've actually been asked to take over my school as head instructor so at least a few higher-ups do too. I'm just as valid a martial artist as anyone and at this point age has nothing to do with it.

 

[andyjeffries]

How old does "teen" apply to? 13? 16? 19?

First off, let me say I have no issue with teenagers or children having poom grades. I also have no issue with 1st Dans running a club. I ran a club as an 18 year old 2nd Dan myself for about 2-3 years.

On to the question above - I would say teen applies until 17, at 18 they become an adult. Of course at 18 they are still in their teens, but in classification terms I wouldn't refer to them as a teen (but probably young man or more normally just a young guy).

In fact, I'd probably refer to them as a teenager only until 15, at 16 I'd consider them a youth.

 

[ETinCYQX]

First off, let me say I have no issue with teenagers or children having poom grades. I also have no issue with 1st Dans running a club. I ran a club as an 18 year old 2nd Dan myself for about 2-3 years.

On to the question above - I would say teen applies until 17, at 18 they become an adult. Of course at 18 they are still in their teens, but in classification terms I wouldn't refer to them as a teen (but probably young man or more normally just a young guy).

In fact, I'd probably refer to them as a teenager only until 15, at 16 I'd consider them a youth.

I think 18 is fairly enough called "adult" since that's the law here, but realistically I'd put Dan grades starting at 16 if it was up to me. 16 is getting to the point that it's time to learn to teach IMO. I also however

I'm hoping that running the club works out all right-I anticipate a challenge and maybe some resistance from some other local guys, but, hey, I was asked and I've been putting the work in to get certified.

 

[granfire]

Not if those paying customers are locked in to a contract...

They are still not going to recommend you if they don't feel like thay are being treated fairly at the gym.
They will leave and not in a good manner.

 

[puunui]

The poom vs. dan distinction really is much ado about nothing since at the appropriate age stated in the Kukkiwon promotion regulations, a poom can get converted into a dan rank. Also the time in grade stays the same. For example, you start taekwondo at age 5 and get promoted to 1st poom at 8, 2nd poom at 11. At age 15 or 16, you can get promoted to 3rd Dan. So really what is the difference?

 

[andyjeffries]

I think 18 is fairly enough called "adult" since that's the law here, but realistically I'd put Dan grades starting at 16 if it was up to me. 16 is getting to the point that it's time to learn to teach IMO.

The Kukkiwon agrees with you. Article 8, clause 1 of the Kukkiwon Promotion Regulations states that 1st Dan applies at age 15 and above.