Certification Cost ????????

[terryl965]

Last night I had the pleasure of meeting a gentleman that trained in New York over the last seven years and now he was transfer down here to Arlington Texas. He has been taking TKD for the past five years with the same instructor to be honest I would say a crook but that is my opinion on this matter. He tested for his B.B. over a year ago and paid his fee, of course he over paid in my opinion, the cost was $10,000 and he has been making payments, he finished making his payments he said about three months ago but his old instructor still has not gotten him his KKW certification. I wonder why, well we all know this answer because he just will not like alot of instructor the over charge and never deliver.

Well back to his saga, he is trying to open a school down here his instructor told him for another $50,000 dollars he can use his school name to give him a credintials to be accepted here in my neck of the woods. He is going though the SBA for a loan to get a school open, my comment was why are you paying $50,000 just to have a sign with somebody name that is not known in these parts? He response was becaus ethey all sign a non-compete clause when they take their B.B. test and the only way legally is to pay the fee. I never heard of a non-compete clause in any martial art especially TKD. He was asking me for some advice and I just did not know what to say to him, so if any of you can give me some advice I am listening.

 

[mango.man]

I have seen non-competes in Martial Arts but usually it is limited to something like: You can't open your own TKD school within 5 miles of one of my TKD schools if I teach you. Or some such garbage.

I can tell you that in California, Non-Compete Clauses are unenforceable. And even if I sign one saying that I won't open a school within 5 miles of you, I could very easily open a school just down the block and there would be nothing that could be done to stop me.

New York is almost the same where it is extremely difficult to enforce a non-compete. I have no idea about Texas, but I suppose the distance from NY to TX would make the non-compete in this case unenforceable since it is impossible for a martial arts school in TX to be seen a competing for customers with a martial arts school in NY. Hell, I would even put the NY Master's Name on the school and send him lots of pictures just to piss him off as I am 100% sure that it would not be enforced.

I am not a lawyer and it has been several years since I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

 

[igillman]

In Texas any sort of non-compete clause must be "like-for-like". In other words, if your employer gets you to sign a "I will not work for a competitor to your company for 1 year after I leave" type clause then there must be something the employer gives you that is "like" it such as guaranteed employment for 1 year or a guaranteed severence pay for X number of months after you leave. It cannot be "in return for this $500 pay raise you agree not to work for a competitor for 1 year after you leave" because $500 and 1 year of work are not "like" comparisons.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice (find a lawyer for that) but my guess is that the non-compete is, at best, invalid and, at worst, illegal anyway. If the other master wishes to try and enforce the matter then it will not get very far. His lawyer will send a letter to your lawyer and your lawyer will send a letter back explaining that the non-compete is not enforceable. Both lawyers will laugh, collect their fees for the letters and the whole matter will be dropped.

One of my friends former employers in Texas tried something like this and that is what happened in their case.

I will repeat it... For proper legal advice, find a lawyer.

 

[Disco]

Terry, tell this guy I'll sell him all sorts of credentials from Vinny Boom Bats of Brooklyn and at only half the cost. We'll even throw in, at NO EXTRA charge, the rights to the Brooklyn Bridge. Yo!, what a deal.........But wait!!......If he signs up within the next 2 years, we'll even throw in a brand new Ford Edsel station wagon, which comes with warranty-------2 blocks or second gear, whichever comes first..........:lfao:

 

[Archtkd]

Last night I had the pleasure of meeting a gentleman that trained in New York over the last seven years and now he was transfer down here to Arlington Texas. He has been taking TKD for the past five years with the same instructor to be honest I would say a crook but that is my opinion on this matter. He tested for his B.B. over a year ago and paid his fee, of course he over paid in my opinion, the cost was $10,000 and he has been making payments, he finished making his payments he said about three months ago but his old instructor still has not gotten him his KKW certification. I wonder why, well we all know this answer because he just will not like alot of instructor the over charge and never deliver.

Sir: Was that a typo -- $10,000? For a 1st Dan, paid by a man who now wants to take a loan so he can further enrich the master who robberd him, by giving him an additional $50,000. Are people out there really this daft? Whatever happened to using common sense and a little street education? How much does that master charge for 4th Dan?

 

[ATC]

...He tested for his B.B. over a year ago and paid his fee, of course he over paid in my opinion, the cost was $10,000 and he has been making payments....

So he got a car with his black belt? WTF!!! :erg: and not World Taekwondo Ferderation.

 

[Miles]

Terry, why doesn't this guy just come and train with you?

What did PT Barnum say about certain folks being born every so often?

 

[granfire]

OH MY GOODNESS...

And I was getting my knickers twisted over 30 bucks a year fee for something stupid...

10k in good old green backs for a BB, 50k for a name 10 states over...holy bat poop Robin...

This Gent needs to ask a lawyer if that no compete clause even holds water in Texas. There is no competition to the original master with 3000 miles commute!

But yeah, there are a myriad of clauses implemented on the desciples of the Arts. (I can put you in touch with a few that strayed from the fold because of that)

man, that beats the hot chocolate machine...

 

[ATC]

I could actually see 50K for a franchise but what do you get for your 50K is the question? If just a name to use then forget that. But if it come with Dojang setup compete with all needed aminities such as mirrors, mats, bags, targets, shield, a supply of uniforms, a website, some marketing material and so on, then 50K is not a bad price to pay.

If not then just open up your own school under your own name for the same price.

 

[terryl965]

Terry, why doesn't this guy just come and train with you?

What did PT Barnum say about certain folks being born every so often?

I did give him that option but he felt like I was saying something bad about his instructor, which I was. At anyrate he is suppose to come by Saturday to workout, we will see.

 

[Archtkd]

I could actually see 50K for a franchise but what do you get for your 50K is the question? If just a name to use then forget that. But if it come with Dojang setup compete with all needed aminities such as mirrors, mats, bags, targets, shield, a supply of uniforms, a website, some marketing material and so on, then 50K is not a bad price to pay.

If not then just open up your own school under your own name for the same price.

You forgot a chocolate/coffee machine and a guarantee for purchase of a Bentley in two years.

 

[ATC]

You forgot a chocolate/coffee machine and a guarantee for purchase of a Bentley in two years.

Oh boy?!? How could I forget the coffee machine. I am so embarrassed.

Go ahead and take off $25. But for me telling you to take off $25 I'll tack on another $2K.

 

[granfire]

You forgot a chocolate/coffee machine and a guarantee for purchase of a Bentley in two years.

Oh boy?!? How could I forget the coffee machine. I am so embarrassed.

Go ahead and take off $25. But for me telling you to take off $25 I'll tack on another $2K.

How much is the 'You are AWESOME' on the way out the door?

 

[Stac3y]

And I thought MY black belt test was expensive!

 

[rlp271]

Who in god's name was he training with in New York (NYC?) that charged him that much? If you want to let me know, PM me, as I know it's not polite to go posting about someone's business practices in an open, public forum. I only lived there for 4 years as a university student (NYU TKD team), so I don't know EVERYONE, but I know quite a few dojang, and they weren't charging nearly that much. Was it expensive for a black belt test, yes. Not that expensive though. I feel like the guy really should have thought about whether a $10 black piece of cloth and a shiny certificate with his name on it was worth $10,000. If he really does, then I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell him.

 

[jthomas1600]

Maybe I'm just new to this, but that sum sound staggering to me...like there's no way that can be right. So I have to ask, is it possible that was a contract he signed when he started training there? Like, for $10,000 you can train until you achieve black belt. If that's the case it's only a grand a year, which might be on the high side but is in the ball park.

Is this common? Do many masters charge large fees for promotion to black belt? What's the average?

 

[rlp271]

I've seen everywhere between free and $1000, but never $10,000. I think I'd sooner invest that money in a home gym than in a black belt at that point.

 

[d1jinx]

whoa...

What rank was he testing for, you never said. And was it for his KKW? did you even look him up to see if he really got a KKW or a knockoff.

maybe he prepaid for his belt tests in advance. $1000 a Dan and paid up too 10th!

I think the word everyone eluded too was....

SUCKA...

sad... very very sad. I know the east cost is crooks and rip offs, but whoa....

 

[Archtkd]

I did give him that option but he felt like I was saying something bad about his instructor, which I was. At anyrate he is suppose to come by Saturday to workout, we will see.

I hope you ask him to do some breaking practice. For the amount he dished out for a BB he'd better demonstrate something spectacular, like breaking two real pine 1" boards with a two-finger strike, immediately followed by a speed break of certified concrete slabs with a 720-degree spinning hook kick. His poomsae and sparring should be world class. Since he plans to open a school, have him teach a little of the magic -- that most of us can never afford -- to your select students. Seriously though, please give us a detailed "after action" report.

 

[kik]

Has anyone even given any decent advice to this guy?? If this guy signed a contract of no compete, it is enforcable if the instructor want's to pursue it. I doubt the instructor would win though because he's in NY and you're in TX.
I would also look up the name of the instructor to see if he is KKW certified, and if he's certified as an instructor. If you're friend hasn't recieved his KKW card I would have him get a lawyer and sue the school that he came from for fraud and theft of monies. The $50,000 he was asked for was to open a satelite school. Those fee's wouldn't include the money he would have to pay for this so called instructor to come down to TX on a yearly basis for BB promotions Plus his cut of that money also. I got tied up with a school like that in my starting years, but I cut and run real fast. I have even had other owners walk into my school and tell me that if I didn't pay them monthy wages that I wouldn'y be allowed to operate in that town.

This poor guy got screwed big time. I would ask for the name of the school so it can be posted and other potential students can be warned. I know this is a little late in coming but I've been away for awhile and just kind of stopped logging on to the computers. I hope I have not offended anyone here.