Negative Experience with 3rd Dan

[Rumy73]

Greetings Everyone,

I would like your advice. I'm a 1st Gup working on my black belt. I'm 38 and happy to be in martial arts. Although I am a late starter most of my experiences have been positive. I really appreciate the conditioning and training. However, at the school I attend, a 3rd Dan, who is 18, really rubs me the wrong way and I'm not sure how to handle it.

First of all, he's quite arrogant. He love to walk around bragging about his accomplishments, etc. Fine. I tend to ignore it. The lack of respect for me being an adult is what I take issue with. For example, while he is aware I can speak Korean, if I say something in Korean to him, he justs ignores me. In the locker room, he was teasing a younger student and I laughed, shaking my head at the ridiculousness of it. He was livid and tried to accost me, asking if I was laughing at his conversation. I could see he was a bit enraged. I told him to call down that "everything isn't all about him." He walked out of the room, stared at me and then threw a flurry of punches into the face of punching dummy. Recently, I sparred with him and he was more aggressive than necessary. So I clinched up with him a lot, as he was faster and much more skilled. What I'm concerned about is safety and the lack of respect. Where do I draw the line and should I bring it up to the school leader?

 

[andyjeffries]

For example, while he is aware I can speak Korean, if I say something in Korean to him, he justs ignores me.

I'm assuming he can speak Korean?

In the locker room, he was teasing a younger student and I laughed, shaking my head at the ridiculousness of it. He was livid and tried to accost me, asking if I was laughing at his conversation. I could see he was a bit enraged. I told him to call down that "everything isn't all about him." He walked out of the room, stared at me and then threw a flurry of punches into the face of punching dummy.

He sounds like a bit of an idiot, but he's in the position of being 18, a 3rd Dan and not knowing how to act yet - so his grade/ability's gone to his head.

Recently, I sparred with him and he was more aggressive than necessary. So I clinched up with him a lot, as he was faster and much more skilled. What I'm concerned about is safety and the lack of respect. Where do I draw the line and should I bring it up to the school leader?

Most definitely speak to the school leader about the safety. To be honest, the lack of respect thing - the examples you've given wouldn't be enough for me to talk to the school head instructor about, it's just an 18 year old being a bit of an idiot. Providing his arrogance doesn't cause him to be physical outside of exercises, then ignore him.

It's definitely worth bringing up with the head instructor though - he may make sure you two don't spar until you feel confortable, he may have a word with the kid, he may decide you just need to "man up" and deal with it. I don't know your head instructor, but if something is making you feel uncomfortable you need to bring it up.

 

[Sukerkin]

PLus, what is an 18 year old doing being a third dan in the first place? Did he start training whilst he was at infants school?!

 

[Master Dan]

I'm assuming he can speak Korean?



He sounds like a bit of an idiot, but he's in the position of being 18, a 3rd Dan and not knowing how to act yet - so his grade/ability's gone to his head.



Most definitely speak to the school leader about the safety. To be honest, the lack of respect thing - the examples you've given wouldn't be enough for me to talk to the school head instructor about, it's just an 18 year old being a bit of an idiot. Providing his arrogance doesn't cause him to be physical outside of exercises, then ignore him.

It's definitely worth bringing up with the head instructor though - he may make sure you two don't spar until you feel confortable, he may have a word with the kid, he may decide you just need to "man up" and deal with it. I don't know your head instructor, but if something is making you feel uncomfortable you need to bring it up.

How many adults your age and older are in your DoJang? If you feel possibly your at risk for injury then you should bring it up with the owner of the Dojang given the difference in age and other issues and todays state of litigeous issues most owners are not going to want the risk or cost of dealing with possible claims for injuries if it can be avoided. If your owner blows you off he may consider you strong enough to deal with it your self or consider your hazing by this person a right of passage by you to BB or worse yet the 18 year old's family has a large financial stake in the Dojang and you don't count? lots of veriables here politcally do you not have any older people same rank or higher to talk with? good luck hope you can have a positive resolve to this?

 

[Rumy73]

PLus, what is an 18 year old doing being a third dan in the first place? Did he start training whilst he was at infants school?!

Apparently, he trained in Korea before coming to the US.

 

[andyjeffries]

PLus, what is an 18 year old doing being a third dan in the first place? Did he start training whilst he was at infants school?!

Quite possibly, my son started training when he turned 6. However, given how frequently our club grades children I can't see him hitting 3rd Dan at 18...

 

[andyjeffries]

How many adults your age and older are in your DoJang? If you feel possibly your at risk for injury then you should bring it up with the owner of the Dojang

You replied to my post but then said "if you feel possibly your at risk". Are you asking about my dojang or the OPs?

 

[Rumy73]

How many adults your age and older are in your DoJang? If you feel possibly your at risk for injury then you should bring it up with the owner of the Dojang given the difference in age and other issues and todays state of litigeous issues most owners are not going to want the risk or cost of dealing with possible claims for injuries if it can be avoided. If your owner blows you off he may consider you strong enough to deal with it your self or consider your hazing by this person a right of passage by you to BB or worse yet the 18 year old's family has a large financial stake in the Dojang and you don't count? lots of veriables here politcally do you not have any older people same rank or higher to talk with? good luck hope you can have a positive resolve to this?

I am actually the oldest student in this group. The next closest student is 30. The rest are college/high school age.

 

[Master Dan]

You replied to my post but then said "if you feel possibly your at risk". Are you asking about my dojang or the OPs?

Sorry I was responding to Rumy73.

His situation could be very complicated with the head instructor or owner feeling threatened by Rumy asking others if they have a problem with the 3rd Dan. Hard to believe this kid is 3rd Dan with out everyone knowing about his attitude and behavior. If he is bulling younger students he will drive paying customers away.

 

[Carol]

If he is bulling younger students he will drive paying customers away.

Not if those paying customers are locked in to a contract...

 

[jthomas1600]

So you are the oldest and are closing in on your black belt. Is this guy somewhat new to the school? It could be that you are seen as the alpha male and this guy being a young buck who outranks you is attempting to assert himself as the leader. That's actually a natural thing to happen. It could be that after a time, he will feel comfortable with his place in the group and the situation will resolve it's self.

 

[andyjeffries]

Not if those paying customers are locked in to a contract...

They may still be driven away, albeit just having to pay out their contract for the notice period and moaning about it to everyone that will listen. That's even worse then allowing them to just leave...

Compare "Ahh, I left because this guy was an a**hole" to "I left because this guy was an a**hole - and get this, I still have to pay $X EVERY month for Y months because of this damn contract. That's a lot worse publicity for the club than just having people leaving because of this 3rd Dan.

I still find it weird that people would sign a contract to learn Taekwondo, but I live in the UK where contracts for martial arts are very rare (and our club certainly don't use them).

 

[IcemanSK]

To the OP, this is something to speak to the school owner about. As the school owner, he/she needs to be aware that one of the BB's under them is acting like a bully/jerk to lower ranks. If I were that school owner, I would want to know that type of info.

I wish you all the best with this & your conitinued training.

 

[dancingalone]

First of all, he's quite arrogant. He love to walk around bragging about his accomplishments, etc. Fine. I tend to ignore it. The lack of respect for me being an adult is what I take issue with. For example, while he is aware I can speak Korean, if I say something in Korean to him, he justs ignores me. In the locker room, he was teasing a younger student and I laughed, shaking my head at the ridiculousness of it. He was livid and tried to accost me, asking if I was laughing at his conversation. I could see he was a bit enraged. I told him to call down that "everything isn't all about him." He walked out of the room, stared at me and then threw a flurry of punches into the face of punching dummy. Recently, I sparred with him and he was more aggressive than necessary. So I clinched up with him a lot, as he was faster and much more skilled. What I'm concerned about is safety and the lack of respect. Where do I draw the line and should I bring it up to the school leader?

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this situation would have been much less likely to happen in the 'older' days before the vast proliferation of black belt ranks. I can remember a time when arrogant brown belts would get their bad manners pounded out of them by their seniors before being considered deserving of a higher rank.

I recognize that society has changed and in-house teaching moments like these just don't happen any more due to our litigious environment. I still die a little bit inside with every story I read like the OP's.

For the OP, talking to the dojang head is a very good idea. Hopefully, he will address the problem.

 

[WC_lun]

Talk to the owner/head instructor in private. This is an issue that will affect the entire school. If the owner is responsable at all, he'll address it immediatley.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

PLus, what is an 18 year old doing being a third dan in the first place? Did he start training whilst he was at infants school?!

Not sure if this is a Kukkiwon club, but in the Kukkiwon, eighteen is the minimum age for third dan, with two years time in grade required between second and third. One year time in grade is required between first and second, with fifteen being the minimum age for a first dan. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/viewfront/eng/promotion/regulations.jsp

So if he earned his BB in Korea, and if as Glenn says, one year is the norm, then he could theoretically have started at fourteen, received his first dan at fifteen, his second at sixteen and his third at eighteen, for a grand total of four years.

An athletic eighteen year old to be a hotshot with technique after four years is very believable. So to is the idea of an eighteen year old third dan being cocky and arrogant, Korean or not.

Daniel

 

[andyjeffries]

Not sure if this is a Kukkiwon club, but in the Kukkiwon, eighteen is the minimum age for third dan, with two years time in grade required between second and third. One year time in grade is required between first and second, with fifteen being the minimum age for a first dan. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/viewfront/eng/promotion/regulations.jsp

Sorry Daniel, but you're reading the regulations wrong. They can be a 4th Dan at 18 (3rd to 4th Dan is minimum age 18 if starting from poom). You can get your 3rd Dan at 15. The table in Article 8 details this. In particular look at the remarks under Article 8 (on the link you posted):

4th Poom holder, being 18 years of age or above, is the same as 4th Dan

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Sorry Daniel, but you're reading the regulations wrong. They can be a 4th Dan at 18 (3rd to 4th Dan is minimum age 18 if starting from poom). You can get your 3rd Dan at 15. The table in Article 8 details this. In particular look at the remarks under Article 8 (on the link you posted):

4th Poom holder, being 18 years of age or above, is the same as 4th Dan

Thanks!

Either way though, you're talking third dan by eighteen for a student who started at fourteen, which is the main thing that I wanted to address.

Sukerkin was asking if the guy had been training from infancy, and while I suppose that it is possible, it certainly would not be necessary for an eighteen year old to have a KKW samdan.

Daniel

 

[andyjeffries]

Either way though, you're talking third dan by eighteen for a student who started at fourteen, which is the main thing that I wanted to address.

Sukerkin was asking if the guy had been training from infancy, and while I suppose that it is possible, it certainly would not be necessary for an eighteen year old to have a KKW samdan.

I know and I agree with you - but I know how this sort of information sticks in people's minds and gets quoted in the future as fact

 

[Sukerkin]

I see - a very different tradition of promotion than that to which I am used, in either the Chinese or the Japanese arts.

As far as I have observed, 'adult' grades only start to come when you are passed eighteen years of age (maybe sixteen in some schools these days) and it should take a period of something like five to seven years to attain a third dan.

A third dan teenager is something I would have difficulty taking seriously, no matter how good his technique. But that's ground we've covered in other threads previously ... and I'm not TKD so I shouldn't really act as if I had a right to 'hold forth' on the subject .