Enlighten Me...

[Spookey]

In the post about Organizations I read one readers posts concerning the difference between Kukkiwon and World Taekwondo Federation...

I would certainly like to here more about a "Kukkiwon Standard School" separate from a World Taekwondo Federation school.

What is the difference, and what is the difference in curriculum?

Humble Regards,
TAE-KWON!

 

[Cyriacus]

Easy - KKW Standard, or KKW Formal is the Martial Art side of Tae Kwon Do.
The WTF is the Sport Side.

Some Dojangs teach people Tae Kwon Do with an Olympic Mindset.
Some Dojangs teach people Tae Kwon Do with a Martial Mindset, with the Tournaments as just something tacked on.

The easiest way to tell if a Dojang is one or the other, is how many Non-Kicks it uses. Since a WTF Themed Dojang has little use for things that dont tend to score as much, whereas a KKW Dojang will EMPHASISE Kicks, but it still teaches Punches, Elbows, Knees, Grapples, Throws, Takedowns, and some Submissions, as well as Self Defense.

Some Dojangs teach it both ways, which i consider better for a KKW Themed Dojang.
Depicted more easily:

Lets drag up some Kwonkicker videos, shall we
Sport Variations;

Formal Variations;

(Theres a bit of Boxing in the second one, but its mostly KKW Formal)

The main difference is, that one is Technique and Speed (Sport), the other is Technique and Speed and Power and Then Some More Power (Formal)

EDIT: Also, Knife Hands, Palm Heels, Ridge Hands, Backfists, and other such things ought be taught for Formal or Standard, if im not mistaken.

 

[ATC]

KKW = Curriculum and Dan Certs
WTF = The Commitee that dictates the compitition rules only.

KKW = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukkiwon
WTF = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Taekwondo_Federation

If a schools says they are a WTF school then they don't know what they are talking about.

KKW = Curriculum and Dan Certs
WTF = The Committee that dictates the competition rules only. "They don't teach anything and they don't issue Dan certs."

It is really that simple. WTF is not a style, and anyone that says it is has no clue.

If a schools says they are a WTF school then run.

Any ITF style of TKD can participate in a WTF sanctioned event. They would simply compete by the rules set by the WTF that is it.

WTF is to TKD as it what WBC or WBO or IBF and so on is to Boxing. You never hear a boxer say I do IBF style boxing or WBO style boxing. I still can't beleive people don't understand this. There is no WTF style of TKD. That would mean that you simple study the rules of a sport.

 

[Cyriacus]

KKW = Curriculum and Dan Certs
WTF = The Commitee that dictates the compitition rules only.

KKW = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukkiwon
WTF = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Taekwondo_Federation


If a schools says they are a WTF school then they don't know what they are talking about.

KKW = Curriculum and Dan Certs
WTF = The Committee that dictates the competition rules only. "They don't teach anything and they don't issue Dan certs."

It is really that simple. WTF is not a style, and anyone that says it is has no clue.

If a schools says they are a WTF school then run.

KKW = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukkiwon
WTF = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Taekwondo_Federation

WTF is to TKD as it what WBC or WBO or IBF and so on is to Boxing. You never hear a boxer say I do IBF style boxing or WBO style boxing. I still can't believe people don't understand this. There is no WTF style of TKD. That would mean that you simple study the rules of a sport.

Any ITF style of TKD can participate in a WTF sanctioned event. They would simply compete by the rules set by the WTF that is it.

WTF is to TKD as it what WBC or WBO or IBF and so on is to Boxing. You never hear a boxer say I do IBF style boxing or WBO style boxing. I still can't beleive people don't understand this. There is no WTF style of TKD. That would mean that you simple study the rules of a sport.

McDojangs could be considered WTF Gyms, simply so that they dont taint the name of the Kukkiwon

In all seriousness, the distinction is too rarely realised between the two.

 

[ATC]

McDojangs could be considered WTF Gyms, simply so that they dont taint the name of the Kukkiwon

Very true, that's why I said "RUN", if a schools states they are.

In all seriousness, the distinction is too rarely realised between the two.

That's why we are here, to educate people so they realize.

 

[andyjeffries]

If a schools says they are a WTF school then run.

I disagree with this. I'd say it depends who's asking. If this is typical soccer-mom and little Johnny, and they've done enough research to know there is a WTF and an ITF then answering with WTF is enough to give them a flavour of the type of Taekwondo you do. I generally would try to educate a little bit saying "we do the sport rules of the WTF, but the WTF looks to the Kukkiwon - which is the World Taekwondo Headquarters - to describe the art and we do Kukkiwon Taekwondo", but if their eyes start to gloss over then a simple "WTF Taekwondo" would suffice and there is time to educate them later. If they started running at the first mention, it would be a shame...

You are correct with the distinction, but it depends who your audience is (IMHO).

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

KKW = Curriculum and Dan Certs


Any ITF style of TKD can participate in a WTF sanctioned event. They would simply compete by the rules set by the WTF that is it.

I disagree. In Canada anyway, to compete as a black belt you have to be registered through Taekwondo Canada (www.wtfcanada.com). An ITF blackbelt would need to get a 1st Dan from KKW before competing here. Maybe the US is different.

 

[Miles]

I disagree. In Canada anyway, to compete as a black belt you have to be registered through Taekwondo Canada (www.wtfcanada.com). An ITF blackbelt would need to get a 1st Dan from KKW before competing here. Maybe the US is different.

Any black belt can compete in USAT events but if the black belt is to compete internationally, a KKW dan certificate is required.

 

[ATC]

I disagree. In Canada anyway, to compete as a black belt you have to be registered through Taekwondo Canada (www.wtfcanada.com). An ITF blackbelt would need to get a 1st Dan from KKW before competing here. Maybe the US is different.

Yes you just proved my point. You need a KKW cert not a WTF cert. I worded the way I did just for someone to make the statement you made. Does not matter the country, so it applies for the world. NO WTF STYLE. Only TKD. A fist dan in ITF could get a first dan KKW cert with everything they already know. Just would need to learn Taeguek forms is all. Many people have both KKW and ITF certs.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Yes you just proved my point. You need a KKW cert not a WTF cert. I worded the way I did just for someone to make the statement you made. Does not matter the country, so it applies for the world. NO WTF STYLE. Only TKD. A fist dan in ITF could get a first dan KKW cert with everything they already know. Just would need to learn Taeguek forms is all. Many people have both KKW and ITF certs.

OK I looked again at your wording again. "Any ITF style of TKD can participate in a WTF sanctioned event".

Your wording is certainly vague. A "style" does not compete, a person does, so to be anal retentive you're certainly wrong - only peopple compete! I'm not trying to get into semantics. If you want to say something say it. I'm just trying to add clarity by saying in Canada at least , not "any" ITF practitioner can compete in a WTF event, he or she would need a dan (OR POOM) certificate.

 

[Twin Fist]

Any black belt can compete in USAT events but if the black belt is to compete internationally, a KKW dan certificate is required.

then the sport side and the martial side are not seperate are they? sounds like one big ponzi scheme to me

 

[Spookey]

I started this thread to bring about this debate...it is not merely the random "soccer mom" getting a generic answer using the default acronym, it is many long time students within our ranks that have not been properly educated. There is no W.T.F. style, there is only Kukki-Taekwondo! However, this is not the case for I.T.F. "Style" as they have their own technical committee and set their own standards internally. However, non ITF affiliated schools who share the common pattern set would best be described as practitioners of Chang-Heon Taekwondo.

Chang-Heon or Kukki it makes no difference to me, we are brothers and cousins of the same family tree, but how can we promote mutual understanding when we cannot even reach agreement within our own ranks (regardless of affiliation).

TAE-KWON!