Kukkiwon ITF or WTF

[Indie12]

Just a question, cause I'm drawing a blank and can't remember:

The Kukkiwon is that strictly WTF (World Tae Kwon Do Federation) or does it include ITF (International Tae Kwon Do Federation) or is ITF still a different TKD organization with their own ranking requirements?
Is WTF still Kukkiwon?

 

[Cyriacus]

ITF has NOTHING to do with the KKW.
WTF has never, ever been KKW. (Read On Before You Misinterpret Me)
WTF is the Standard of the Organisation which Administrates Competitions. For which you require a KKW Belt by KKW Standards with a KKW Certificate.
KKW is the Standard of the Martial Art.
WTF is the Organisation that runs Competitions. Some People ignore the KKW Part, and just call it WTF TKD.
I suppose in a way, the KKW and WTF are closely related.
Totally different things though.
One might say, you can learn ITF Taekwon-Do, and KKW WTF Tae Kwon Do.
The ITF has its own Governing Bodies.
Because there are Multiple ITFs for some reason.
The ITF has never been a Part of the KKW.
The WTF operates "for" the KKW.

Also, the ITF spells it, Taekwon-Do.
The KKW WTF spells it, Tae Kwon Do.
It can also be spelt Taekwondo.
Or Tae Kwon-Do.
And I think theres another variation.
It depends on the Root of the Particular Organisation.

 

[Indie12]

That's what I thought and knew, but I was having a brain fart!!

Thanks!!

 

[Cyriacus]

That's what I thought and knew, but I was having a brain fart!!

Thanks!!

Understandable.
Its all a bit confusing at first. (KKW =/= WTF =/= ITF =/= GTF =/= Independents) = TKD (TKD = Taekwondo =/= Taekwon-Do =/= Tae Kwon Do =/= Tae Kwon-Do) in some form or another.

 

[andyjeffries]

Also, the ITF spells it, Taekwon-Do.
The KKW WTF spells it, Tae Kwon Do.
It can also be spelt Taekwondo.

I agreed with your post up to this point. The Kukkiwon and WTF always romanise TKD as Taekwondo.

Independents (non-ITF, non-KKW) often spell it Tae Kwon Do, but the KKW and WTF are consistent.

 

[Cyriacus]

I agreed with your post up to this point. The Kukkiwon and WTF always romanise TKD as Taekwondo.

Independents (non-ITF, non-KKW) often spell it Tae Kwon Do, but the KKW and WTF are consistent.

Not ALL Independents, though.
Or, Non ITF and Non KKW, since Independent seems to be a rather broad term, when some of these Independents can be rather large Organisations.
EDIT: To clarify, this is approving of your adding non-itf non-kkw addendum. Since it relates Independent to just being Independent of those two, rather than implying small.

Thats irrelevant though; Moving ahead-

If the KKW and WTF always set it as Taekwondo, why do alot of the folks here, even the Forums Martial Arts Interested/Studied Spell it Tae Kwon Do?
Or Tae-Kwon-Do for this Forum Branch itself.
It references TKD being in the Olympics, so its obviously referring to the KKW Form.
Im not contradicting you. But its curious.

 

[andyjeffries]

Not ALL Independents, though.
Or, Non ITF and Non KKW, since Independent seems to be a rather broad term, when some of these Independents can be rather large Organisations.
EDIT: To clarify, this is approving of your adding non-itf non-kkw addendum. Since it relates Independent to just being Independent of those two, rather than implying small.

Agreed.

If the KKW and WTF always set it as Taekwondo, why do alot of the folks here, even the Forums Martial Arts Interested/Studied Spell it Tae Kwon Do?
Or Tae-Kwon-Do for this Forum Branch itself.
It references TKD being in the Olympics, so its obviously referring to the KKW Form.
Im not contradicting you. But its curious.

I would say the reason this forum branch is Tae Kwon Do is to be inclusive. As Tae Kwon Do is not specific to the ITF or WTF spelling, it's the most neutral/inclusive. That said, I'm guessing

Also, I'd say that a lot of people aren't as concerned about how it's romanised. I personally am, I am a Kukki-Taekwondo supporter through and through so I like to stay as accurate as I can to the Kukkiwon style of Taekwondo (including their choice of spelling).

The same as some people spell Poomsae as Poomse, the Kukkiwon consistently spells it -sae although it used to be -se (they are two different Korean characters).

 

[dancingalone]

If the KKW and WTF always set it as Taekwondo, why do alot of the folks here, even the Forums Martial Arts Interested/Studied Spell it Tae Kwon Do?
Or Tae-Kwon-Do for this Forum Branch itself.

Here in the US, Tae Kwon Do was how it was written for a long, long time. Both Taekwon-Do and Taekwondo are more recent developments.

Evidence: See the published titles of these TKD books. The last is interesting because the author (whom I studied briefly with) was a KKW 9th dan and the publisher is Nanam Publishing House, a Korean publisher.

Korean Karate: The Art of Tae Kwon Do by GM Duk Sung Son, copyright 1968.

Tae Kwon Do Secrets of Korean Karate by GM Sihak Henry Cho, copyright 1968.

The Kuk Ki Won's Tae Kwon Do by Dr. Daeshik Kim, copyright 1994.

 

[Cyriacus]

Here in the US, Tae Kwon Do was how it was written for a long, long time. Both Taekwon-Do and Taekwondo are more recent developments.

Evidence: See the published titles of these TKD books. The last is interesting because the author (whom I studied briefly with) was a KKW 9th dan and the publisher is Nanam Publishing House, a Korean publisher.

Korean Karate: The Art of Tae Kwon Do by GM Duk Sung Son, copyright 1968.

Tae Kwon Do Secrets of Korean Karate by GM Sihak Henry Cho, copyright 1968.

The Kuk Ki Won's Tae Kwon Do by Dr. Daeshik Kim, copyright 1994.

Im not too sure about the specifics of that, but it isnt something worth debating - Im sure thats accurate to some extent, but I also have a Book old enough to have crummy Black and White Pictures, written by a Student of one of the Founders, Spelling it Taekwon-Do.

Now, the main reason im not persuing that reasoning, is that it doesnt have a Date on it that I can find. Anywere.
If I find a Date on it, ill resurrect this Topic.

For now though...

[/SIZE]

Agreed.



I would say the reason this forum branch is Tae Kwon Do is to be inclusive. As Tae Kwon Do is not specific to the ITF or WTF spelling, it's the most neutral/inclusive. That said, I'm guessing

Also, I'd say that a lot of people aren't as concerned about how it's romanised. I personally am, I am a Kukki-Taekwondo supporter through and through so I like to stay as accurate as I can to the Kukkiwon style of Taekwondo (including their choice of spelling).

The same as some people spell Poomsae as Poomse, the Kukkiwon consistently spells it -sae although it used to be -se (they are two different Korean characters).

Ive never even heard it called Poomsae until I came onto these Forums.
Ive always just heard them called Patterns.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I was told that the change from Tae Kwon Do to Taekwondo had to deal with the term becoming so ubiquitous that it had became its own word, rather than 3 words. Much as Kara Te is spelled as one word; Karate.

 

[andyjeffries]

Here in the US, Tae Kwon Do was how it was written for a long, long time. Both Taekwon-Do and Taekwondo are more recent developments.

Evidence: See the published titles of these TKD books. The last is interesting because the author (whom I studied briefly with) was a KKW 9th dan and the publisher is Nanam Publishing House, a Korean publisher.

Korean Karate: The Art of Tae Kwon Do by GM Duk Sung Son, copyright 1968.

Tae Kwon Do Secrets of Korean Karate by GM Sihak Henry Cho, copyright 1968.

The Kuk Ki Won's Tae Kwon Do by Dr. Daeshik Kim, copyright 1994.

Here's a book published by the WTF in 1975 that romanises it as they still do - Taekwondo Poomse. I can quite agree that in the early days they may have romanised it as three words, but it's been standardised (for WTF/KKW) for decades now - I wouldn't consider it a "recent" development. I don't necessarily state by the way that it's been standardised since 1975, the WTF seems to have changed the romanisation over the years for (for example) World Championship posters depending on the host country, but they have been consistent in their usage in their logo for example (as has the Kukkiwon).

 

[dancingalone]

Im not too sure about the specifics of that, but it isnt something worth debating - Im sure thats accurate to some extent, but I also have a Book old enough to have crummy Black and White Pictures, written by a Student of one of the Founders, Spelling it Taekwon-Do.

I hope I don't come across as pedantic, but what I said isn't a matter of opinion and thus not up to debate. Some of the first TKD instructors in the States were the likes of Sihak Henry Cho and Duk Sung Son and Jhoon Rhee. They wrote the name as "Tae Kwon Do" and so the people who descend from them in lineage use Tae Kwon Do instead of Taekwon-Do or Taekwondo. Given the time frame when these men emigrated, I believe it it's a factual statement to say that Tae Kwon Do was the first way it was written popularly, again in the US. I don't have an opinion about Australia or other parts of the world.

 

[dancingalone]

- I wouldn't consider it a "recent" development.

Recent in the sense of how it has spread in the US. I'm not talking about WTF or ITF standardization. I do however stand by my statement that "Tae Kwon Do" is how the martial art was Romanized in the US during its first days.

 

[andyjeffries]

Recent in the sense of how it has spread in the US. I'm not talking about WTF or ITF standardization. I do however stand by my statement that "Tae Kwon Do" is how the martial art was Romanized in the US during its first days.

Ahh OK, I'm not American so I tend to think on a global basis rather than how it is on your little island ;-)

 

[Cyriacus]

Ahh OK, I'm not American so I tend to think on a global basis rather than how it is on your little island ;-)

...Same here, pretty much

 

[Indie12]

I also think it depends on where your located...

 

[Cyriacus]

I also think it depends on where your located...

Well, see, im not even thinking Location.

Im thinking Origin. When the Art was Founded by its Individual Founders.

 

[tkd1964]

Here in the US, Tae Kwon Do was how it was written for a long, long time. Both Taekwon-Do and Taekwondo are more recent developments.

Evidence: See the published titles of these TKD books. The last is interesting because the author (whom I studied briefly with) was a KKW 9th dan and the publisher is Nanam Publishing House, a Korean publisher.

Korean Karate: The Art of Tae Kwon Do by GM Duk Sung Son, copyright 1968.

Tae Kwon Do Secrets of Korean Karate by GM Sihak Henry Cho, copyright 1968.

The Kuk Ki Won's Tae Kwon Do by Dr. Daeshik Kim, copyright 1994.

The ITF has always spelled it Taekwon-Do. The 1965 publication Taekwon-Do by gen. Choi Hong Hi spelled it Taekwon-Do. Gen. Choi did this to show the two aspects of Taekwon-Do, the physical and mental.

 

[Cyriacus]

The ITF has always spelled it Taekwon-Do. The 1965 publication Taekwon-Do by gen. Choi Hong Hi spelled it Taekwon-Do. Gen. Choi did this to show the two aspects of Taekwon-Do, the physical and mental.

...And it Reads correctly that way.

Since the TaeKwon is the Feet and Fists (Or Fists and Feet... Dammit im having a Brain Fart now ), and Do is the Way, or Art of. As such, it reads more correctly in Korean to be;
Do-KwonTae. Or Do-Kwon Tae even.

 

[miguksaram]

Ive never even heard it called Poomsae until I came onto these Forums.
Ive always just heard them called Patterns.

Are you ITF? If so then a reason why you may have heard patterns is because 'Tul' translates, roughly, to pattern. Like a cookie cutter type effect.