Why the hate between TMA and MMA?

[Jedmus]

I've been looking through forums and am seeing so much hate between TMA and MMA / Kickboxing / BJJ, I've also experienced this from people I've met.

My question is, where does all the hate come from? I've trained in different TMA's and also in K1-Kickboxing and I just don't get why anyone would have a reason to hate one or the other so much.

What I mainly hear, from both sides, is that they're ineffective, don't work in a real fight and that everyone who participates are egotistical.

 

[Headhunter]

Oh dear this is going to turn into one of those threads

 

[Tez3]

I've been looking through forums and am seeing so much hate between TMA and MMA / Kickboxing / BJJ, I've also experienced this from people I've met.

My question is, where does all the hate come from? I've trained in different TMA's and also in K1-Kickboxing and I just don't get why anyone would have a reason to hate one or the other so much.

What I mainly hear, from both sides, is that they're ineffective, don't work in a real fight and that everyone who participates are egotistical.

While you have seen it on forums it's something we try not to encourage on this one. The rule is no style bashing.
Starting another thread which has people at loggerheads doesn't do anything for anyone. I speak as someone who does both MMA and TMA. I'm not willing to enter into arguments about it quite frankly. Headhunter is quite correct when he says it will turn into one of those threads, I'm off for popcorn and will see how long it takes before this thread goes tits up.

 

[oaktree]

Not really hate, more of difference of opinions regarding training and opinions of what self defense. Ever since UFC came out there has been many discussions on various forums about tma and mma. There really isn't anything new to it and will keep occurring.

 

[jobo]

I've been looking through forums and am seeing so much hate between TMA and MMA / Kickboxing / BJJ, I've also experienced this from people I've met.

My question is, where does all the hate come from? I've trained in different TMA's and also in K1-Kickboxing and I just don't get why anyone would have a reason to hate one or the other so much.

What I mainly hear, from both sides, is that they're ineffective, don't work in a real fight and that everyone who participates are egotistical.

its human nature once they have something to devide them, they start attacking the others thing. religion,politics football, different towns, states countries. Anything will do. The two sides can be summed up be, tma is completely ineffective, v mma is full of phycotic thugs that like hurting people. When the truth is, they have. Far more in common that they have differences. Then there is aikido and win Chun, even the tma lot pick on them. But then chunners pick on other chunners. In fact there is no hate like chunners have for another style of chun

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

hate between TMA and MMA / Kickboxing / BJJ, ...

I have requested all my students to test their skill in the MMA gym. They come back and discuss the situation with me. I then give them some suggestion and solution.

When you are young, you should test your MA skill against as many different styles as possible. MMA gym is a good place for that.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Everyone wants to train in the 'best' system. When they find a system they like, they find reasons to bash other systems. I suppose it's nature. And it doesn't matter what kind of system is being bashed or lauded; it's just the way people can be sometimes.

I think most of it is from people who aren't that well-versed in their own systems. Serious martial artists who have been training for many years tend to have a great deal more respect for each other, I think.

In the dojo where I train, nobody puts down any other styles out there. We are martial artists. We train. We're interested in what we're doing. If somebody brings something in from another style or another dojo, and it works, hey, we'll use it, why not? If it doesn't, it doesn't, but that doesn't mean the style or the technique is no good. Maybe we weren't shown it properly.

I would suggest that anyone interested in comparing styles with the aim of putting someone else's style down consider first that they themselves are probably not all that and a bag of chips, and second that not every person who trains wants to do the same things. "I can run ten miles and kill five guys and not even be out of breath!" Yeah, kid, that's great. I am 56 years old. I won't run except to the bathroom unless I'm being chased. Kill five guys? Yeah, my morning breath can do that. Go away, I have to scratch some itchy spots.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

In any group, the most obnoxious folks tend to be the loudest. Most TMA folks don't hate MMA/Kickboxing/BJJ and most and most MMA/Kickboxing/BJJ folks don't hate TMAs.

(On a side note, no one even agrees on what a "TMA" is. Typically arts like TKD get lumped into the TMA category, while BJJ and Muay Thai do not - even though BJJ and Muay Thai are both older than TKD.)

Lots of people, including some of us on this forum (myself included) and some professional MMA fighters, train on both sides of the fence.

For those who do argue about the subject, there are a few likely causes.

Some people have a lot of ego invested in whatever system they train and want the emotional reassurance of feeling like their art provides all the answers they will ever need.

Some people have strong opinions about a certain approach to training (sparring vs no sparring, competition vs no competition, etc) and the MMA vs TMA arguments are just a proxy for disagreements on those issues.

Some people on the MMA side have only experienced crappy, McDojo-style "TMAs" and believe that is all there is on the TMA side.

Some people on the TMA side have bought into nonsense from their instructors about how their art is so deadly it can't used in MMA because they would be snapping people's necks left and right.

Some people are just fanboys and don't even train, but still want to pontificate about how their preferred system is the best.

 

[gerardbu07059]

Do not understand the thinking behind this. . Great mma practicioners and tma practicioners never put down tma since mma is based in a diverse skills of tma styles and techniques. What is better a ballet dancer, a jass dancer or a ballroom dancer?.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[Buka]

I haven't really seen much of it in real life. It's seems to be a staple online, though.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I've been looking through forums and am seeing so much hate between TMA and MMA / Kickboxing / BJJ, I've also experienced this from people I've met.

My question is, where does all the hate come from? I've trained in different TMA's and also in K1-Kickboxing and I just don't get why anyone would have a reason to hate one or the other so much.

What I mainly hear, from both sides, is that they're ineffective, don't work in a real fight and that everyone who participates are egotistical.

I have no idea and to be honest I have only run into it on web forums. I have not run into it in the real world

 

[Steve]

I think that there's an important distinction to be made between "hate" and what are often just fundamental differences of opinion. Saying someone's just a "hater" is a way to dismiss critical feedback. In other words, people aren't usually "haters." They're just called that so their opinions can be dismissed out of hand.

Example:
A: "My MA is the bee's knees. Everyone's talking about it down at the local five and dime."
B: "You can't use uncooked pasta as a weapon. That's just... no. That's not okay. No."
A: "You're just a hater."

It's a shame when that happens, because it creates a cascading effect similar to the emotional wake that follows a divorce. When a couple gets a divorce, the friends get divorced, too. In the same way, when someone declares their opinion to be The Opinion and dismisses anyone who disagrees as a hater, people feel like they need to pick a side. We see it over and over around here.

 

[Hanzou]

I've been looking through forums and am seeing so much hate between TMA and MMA / Kickboxing / BJJ, I've also experienced this from people I've met.

My question is, where does all the hate come from? I've trained in different TMA's and also in K1-Kickboxing and I just don't get why anyone would have a reason to hate one or the other so much.

What I mainly hear, from both sides, is that they're ineffective, don't work in a real fight and that everyone who participates are egotistical.

The "hate" stems from practitioners of certain styles who make silly excuses for why their system of preference doesn't appear in NHB/MMA contests. For better or worse, MMA's explosion in popularity forced people to question the effectiveness of a variety of martial arts. The martial arts that rose to the occasion have generally earned respect among the MMA crowd, while those arts that continue to make up nonsensical excuses continue to be ridiculed and dwindle away.

What people fail to realize is the MMA craze that emerged after the first UFC was the exact thing that Bruce Lee predicted would happen way back in the early 70's when he began to blend systems together and point out the ineffectiveness of many traditional methods.

Personally, I feel that the pressure from MMA has made the martial arts better as a whole. Many phoney MAs are dying out because people prefer the effectiveness of MMA-based martial arts instead of getting taken for a ride by charlatans who can't fight their way out of a paper bag.

From my standpoint as a practitioner of Bjj, I appreciate the fact that when Bjj starts getting too showy or fancy, there's always a MMA guy waiting on the sidelines to punch us in the face and bring us back down to Earth.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

It's funny, I was just now having a debate with someone on youtube (I know, I'm ashamed of it myself) about MMA vs TMA, where the other person was pretty much saying that TMA is useless because they spend their time practising forms instead of fighting a real opponent. I pointed out that the basic forms I practice in my TMA system are no different than the solo drills MMA fighters practice. I've seen plenty of MMA fighters walking backwards and forwards throwing basic punches as a solo drill, and guess what my first form consists of? Walking backwards and forwards throwing basic punches. They are the same.

Unfortunately I feel that a lot of MMA fighters watch the movies and the Wushu competitions and think that those accurately represent TMA forms, when they don't in the slightest. It's like watching a James Bond movie and thinking that is what being in an intelligence service is all about....

 

[Hanzou]

It's funny, I was just now having a debate with someone on youtube (I know, I'm ashamed of it myself) about MMA vs TMA, where the other person was pretty much saying that TMA is useless because they spend their time practising forms instead of fighting a real opponent. I pointed out that the basic forms I practice in my TMA system are no different than the solo drills MMA fighters practice. I've seen plenty of MMA fighters walking backwards and forwards throwing basic punches as a solo drill, and guess what my first form consists of? Walking backwards and forwards throwing basic punches. They are the same.

Unfortunately I feel that a lot of MMA fighters watch the movies and the Wushu competitions and think that those accurately represent TMA forms, when they don't in the slightest. It's like watching a James Bond movie and thinking that is what being in an intelligence service is all about....

Actually solo drills are quite a bit different from kata. If you look at Kung Fu or Karate in their sparring/fighting form, it bares little resemblance to the kata which has far more expressive movements.

On the other hand, the solo drills you find in MMA, Boxing, Judo, Muay Thai, Bjj, and other systems are highly reminiscent of the fighting form of those systems. For example, when I'm doing hip escape drills, they identical to the actual hip escape I'd be using while rolling/sparring in Bjj.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Actually solo drills are quite a bit different from kata. If you look at Kung Fu or Karate in their sparring/fighting form, it bares little resemblance to the kata which has far more expressive movements.

On the other hand, the solo drills you find in MMA, Boxing, Judo, Muay Thai, Bjj, and other systems are highly reminiscent of the fighting form of those systems. For example, when I'm doing hip escape drills, they identical to the actual hip escape I'd be using while rolling/sparring in Bjj.

That entirely depends on the style and the form/kata in question. When I practice my forms I use the same type of power-generation, breathing and stances that I use when sparring.

 

[Hanzou]

That entirely depends on the style and the form/kata in question. When I practice my forms I use the same type of power-generation, breathing and stances that I use when sparring.

That's all fine and dandy, but you can't make the argument that kata and solo drills are similar just because your particular style does it. The vast majority of traditional styles DON'T do it, and perform kata that bear little resemblance to their fighting forms.

 

[Headhunter]

And now it begins

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The term TMA may mean that you don't have intention to create/mix something from other MA systems. The following short form is not traditional but modern creation.

Will you call yourself a TMA guy or MMA guy if you are a wrestler (TMA), but you also use/mix striking skill from other TMA styles? IMO, if you do, you are a MMA guy yourself.

 

[Ironbear24]

(On a side note, no one even agrees on what a "TMA" is. Typically arts like TKD get lumped into the TMA category, while BJJ and Muay Thai do not - even though BJJ and Muay Thai are both older than TKD.)

Pretty much this. The terms are so arbitrary and stupid that we may as well abandon them.