The Philosophy Behind the Black Belt

[dvcochran]

The images below is how it's often taught, we learned it this way in my counselling course, we covered it quite a bit. But I get what you mean in that self-actualisation would be considered at the 'bottom' from the perspective of it needing to be addressed only after the other needs are met.

The black belt can 'represent' the 'need' to self-actualise, grow, learn, and develop into the fullest potential you can and want to be (different for everyone). Personal evolution. That's all I'm saying, nothing cryptic

neither me or maslow are responsible for people misreprestning it as a triange

but if your insisting on triangles the most impirtant bit of the great pyrimid is the bit at the bottom, wiyh out whiich the whole lot falls over

so, in a HIERARCHY of important the foundation are top of the list, the pointy vit at the top is what peopje spend the most time admiring, but is least important to it standibg for 4000 years

I quoted both of you because I agree with both of you. Clearly y'all are looking at 'it' from different perspectives.
Jobo, I sincerely hope you do not have to worry so much about the bottom of those pyramids to place them at the top of your list. That said, I am a realist and a realist would put them higher on the list.
Simon, I get it, and would say I am stuck in the green for life and am okay with that. Or that I don't feel compelled to search any further. Or I got to the top and didn't see any difference from the lower section.
Assuming the essentials that Jobo is lamenting about are covered the pyramid has merit. Sadly there are many folks whose life is far from that model.
Am I being a Pollyanna?

 

[ShortBridge]

He's right to a point, or I guess I should say "I concur with his point", because I'm no real authority on whether or not he is right. But it is good to work towards something and it's nice to get validation for accomplishments. They don't hand out black belts is BJJ as freely as some other systems do so anyone who has one has a right to feel good about that accomplishment.

But, I have two other thoughts about black belts and belt systems.

1) The history of the blackbelt that I have chosen to believe is that they originated in Judo so that when you were doing rondori with someone you didn't know, they would have a visual indicator of how capable they were of keeping themselves safe. You can throw someone very experienced differently than you should throw a beginner because part of the skill in that art is the ability to be thrown without landing on the crown of your head or something dangerous. It later evolved to competition tiering and I believe that the west's obsession with the deadly superpowers of mythical blackbelts made it a good business decision to be able to award one to someone on your own terms. But, I believe they started with a practical purpose, not a mythical one.

2) I don't run a big organization and neither my students nor I are worried about their rank outside of our walls, but I also don't make my living collecting fees from students. If you are running a big school with hundreds of students or really even dozens with a wide range of experience and abilities it helps to have some sort of system to keep yourself, your instructors, and your students straight on who should be working on what exactly. Colored belt systems work well for that, but it could be t-shirts, or socks, or headbands, or card that you scan when show up for class or even a spreadsheet with names and numbers on it, but you're going to need some method of keeping everyone straight or you just lose track of what people need from you. I think it's one of the reasons intermediate people tend to hop from one system or teacher to another, they are not working on their next stuff when they should be, not (always) because someone is holding them back, but sometimes just because they've lost track of them. Though I don't do it, I can see how everyone having a color coded rank might help with that.

But, the real answer is they mean whatever the person awarding them decides that they mean. If they are part of a network of schools under a federation of some kind it is usually dictated by the organization. If it's a locally owned club, it's whoever makes those decisions. At the end of the day, you're exactly the same person and martial artist with or without it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Lol.... you don't think the black belt represents what's closer to the top of maslow's hierarchy?

Self-actualisation referring to once you've gotten the other things taken care of (food, shelter, social belonging etc), that you're pursuing what has true meaning and value for you, aligning with your inner joy and full expression of yourself?

You've completely got it the flopsy way around!

I think he meant low priority, or he had his pyramid upside-down.

neither me or maslow are responsible for people misreprestning it as a triange

but if your insisting on triangles the most impirtant bit of the great pyrimid is the bit at the bottom, wiyh out whiich the whole lot falls over

so, in a HIERARCHY of important the foundation are top of the list, the pointy vit at the top is what peopje spend the most time admiring, but is least important to it standibg for 4000 years

The triangle (often referred to as a pyramid, though that's not geometrically correct) is, IMO, a better way to represent the hierarchy than the list Maslow used. It better illustrates the distribution of needs (more at fundamental levels) and the time/effort spent on them, in general.

We don't have Maslow's input on that, so far as I know, but it's a useful progression. Like some of the stuff that changes in MA after a founder passes on.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

it would be the ,,,,, it doesnt matter if yoyr rich or poor as long as you have a blackbelt,,, bit

clearly it matters quite a lot, if yoUr actually, POOR

this statement is on par with " let them eat cake" of only possibly being said by someone who has never wanted for lifes essentials

Then I think you missed the point of what that instructor was saying.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

if your going to climb Everest, you need to get to base camp first???
.im struggling with the concept a black belt being the peak of someones achevments, i mean really, irs a result of people who have achived little in other area, putting extreme value on something that means very little

ii mean sure it takes effort and commitment, but so does everything else,, hell my mates model railway, has taken him decades of effort and commutment, and i rather think his effort might have been better redirected into something more useful

my pool trophies are just as valuable as a representatipn of commttment and success, and they are in the back of a cupboard, unless i threw them out in the last move?

Maslow's hierarchy isn't a single path. People can actually be at more than one level at once. Someone can be self-actualized in one area, and still in a more basic need in another area.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Bro, I got something better than Maslow's that simplifies everything and it is this...

People have three needs and three needs only. Anything else is trivial. When these three needs are met, the person becomes happy.

FOOD, SEX, COMMUNITY.

Really, that's it. That's the secret to happiness. Whether it's wired through evolution or God-given, nobody cares. The fact is, those three are all we need, and when they are met, we are happy. Every dude you see around justifying his ambitions of saving the world is just a lonely spirit looking to get laid.

Not so much, really.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

ive read the words, but have no idea what sentiment your trying to convey

The irony.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Excuse me?? lmao. You're saying that it's common sense to believe that we don't need food, sex, and community?

Bro, are you under 18 or something?

You're committing multiple logical fallacies. Prove the claim you make here.

 

[jobo]

Maslow's hierarchy isn't a single path. People can actually be at more than one level at once. Someone can be self-actualized in one area, and still in a more basic need in another area.

you say that and its not true, coz thats not what maslow said

if you want to say maslow was wrong, then thats your opinion, but you cant change what maslow said to fit your narative and say im incorrect

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You're gonna have to make me unpack my thoughts on this one. lol.

Food is obvious. A sense of belonging or a sense of community, or just having a group of friends, is needed for sanity. REQUIRED, even. Sex is tricky. We can talk about it.

I have to clarify, I only really said that sex is everything to state a point. A life's purpose is a bit more than that, but I was proving a point.

Your claim was that those are ALL that matters.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

you say that and its not true, coz thats not what maslow said

if you want to say maslow was wrong, then thats your opinion, but you cant change what maslow said to fit your narative and say im incorrect

Maslow's point wasn't...complete, in my opinion. As you, yourself, have said, his model isn't widely accepted (at least as-is). This is one of the reasons for that.

 

[jobo]

Maslow's point wasn't...complete, in my opinion. As you, yourself, have said, his model isn't widely accepted (at least as-is). This is one of the reasons for that.

im stilll waiting for you to explain in what way my desription is at odds with maslows

even more sophisticated models show over lap, but not a significant change in the order, such that someone starving on the,streets can reach self actulistion

more recent studies of the effect if poverty and hoomelessness show the reverse is teue and people thrown into such circumstances quickly regress to base needs

 

[Gerry Seymour]

im stilll waiting for you to explain in what way my desription is at odds with maslows

even more sophisticated models show over lap, but not a significant change in the order, such that someone starving on the,streets can reach self actulistion

I didn't say it was at odds with Maslow's.

 

[Bee Brian]

You're committing multiple logical fallacies. Prove the claim you make here.

Give me some hours. I am about to head to the gym for the kind of workout that will destroy martial artists. Got it? And then I'll get back here and Ben-Shapiro all of you.

 

[jobo]

Maslow's hierarchy isn't a single path. People can actually be at more than one level at once. Someone can be self-actualized in one area, and still in a more basic need in another area.

il quote it,

you were contradicting me with this quote
maslows hierarchy is a single path coz that what maslow said it was

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Give me some hours. I am about to head to the gym for the kind of workout that will destroy martial artists. Got it? And then I'll get back here and Ben-Shapiro all of you.

So, you need hours to try to come up with support for a claim you made. Nice work.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

il quote it,

you were contradicting me with this quote
maslows hierarchy is a single path coz that what maslow said it was

Actually, that was you trying to contradict me.

 

[_Simon_]

if your going to climb Everest, you need to get to base camp first???
.im struggling with the concept a black belt being the peak of someones achevments, i mean really, irs a result of people who have achived little in other area, putting extreme value on something that means very little

ii mean sure it takes effort and commitment, but so does everything else,, hell my mates model railway, has taken him decades of effort and commutment, and i rather think his effort might have been better redirected into something more useful

my pool trophies are just as valuable as a representatipn of commttment and success, and they are in the back of a cupboard, unless i threw them out in the last move?

Yeah... of course. I wasn't in any way saying don't worry about food or shelter. I'm saying it's a good representation of the different needs that we move through. Can't look at selfactualisation whilst trying to survive, that's the last thing on one's mind! It's like a motivational speaker going up to a homeless person and preaching to them to AIM HIGH and find your inner joy! Not gonna be much use to them...

Black belt not necessarily the peak, but simply representative of that phase. To many it can be a very pivotal moment and something they've worked towards as the training really brings joy to them. That's not to say that prior belts mean nothing, just saying as a reference point. It's very hard to discuss it as different things mean different things to different people. It's not like a literal cap or limit. Symbolic.

Key point: it's very contextual! And it's very much about what you become in the process, rather than a 'belt'. An unfolding of your potential, not as a goal oriented thing, but process and 'being' oriented.

 

[_Simon_]

Bro, I got something better than Maslow's that simplifies everything and it is this...

People have three needs and three needs only. Anything else is trivial. When these three needs are met, the person becomes happy.

FOOD, SEX, COMMUNITY.

Really, that's it. That's the secret to happiness. Whether it's wired through evolution or God-given, nobody cares. The fact is, those three are all we need, and when they are met, we are happy. Every dude you see around justifying his ambitions of saving the world is just a lonely spirit looking to get laid.

Uhhhhh........... no... don't feel that's correct.. You seem to be addressing basically biological drives. But equating that with happiness? I'd take another look at that man..

 

[jobo]

Actually, that was you trying to contradict me.

what, your quote is me trying to contradict you, have you been drinking