Skip Dan promotions, when is it ok?

StuartA

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Personally, I don't see any belt skip, colored or not, as cheapening the practitioner provided they know the material required for a practitioner of that rank and that they can execute the material at a level appropriate to the rank.
Okay.. my system has never had 'skipped' dans, so Im writting this as a reference to 'double promotions', which i think are similar, but there may be differences, Im not sure!

Daniel has hit the nail on the head: Regarding 'double promotions' it usually (usually as in EVERY case Ive ever hard of) means the students is promoted merit (whether deserved or not) and most definatly does not know the required material - therefore it shoudnt IMO be issued.

Now, if someone DID know the material, I'd still question it as grades in MA serve as stepping stones, experience at various levels is invaluable, plus of course theres knowing it to show at a grading and really knowing it properly, which only comes from training it for a while!

- Should they be issued due to merit (ie. a good grading) - No IMO
- Should they be issued due to someone knowing all the material for say 2 grades - again, No IMO - serve your time properly
- Should they be issued based on time and knowledge - again No, unless the student can give very valid reasons why he/she has not been able to follow the standard grading structure - which i think is the basic standard that needs to be applied for this and from what I hear/read, its simply not!

Stuart
 

granfire

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Hmm, make me appreciate the ITA system. You just don't skip rank.

And having plenty of testing chances through out he year for lower belts and at least once every year for the high ranking Black belts, there is no real excuse to not step up the rank ladder one by one. (and the tests don't cost an arm and a leg either).


it's a lot of politics involved other wise, do I or do I not recommend student X to test, do I keep him/her from doing so.

There are a lot of things that play into it, just owning a rank for x number of years is not the prime criteria, or rather should be.
 

terryl965

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I guess the best answer is this for everybody do what you feel is right for you. This way if you can look yourself in the mirror and say I deserve this than you do.
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HM2PAC

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I'm just not getting why anyone would believe that skipping any rank (color or Dan) would be acceptable.

Physicians can't skip a year of school/residency/fellowship.

Electricians can't skip ahead in their apprenticeship.

No one would want a pilot that had been promoted on time in rank status to a position to fly a new plane they had not sufficient knowledge of.

Why would anyone respect someone who has not spent time in rank?
 

elder999

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I'm just not getting why anyone would believe that skipping any rank (color or Dan) would be acceptableof.

Well, I posted a variety of reasons why it has happened, and they've all occurred over a fairly long period of time. I think Steven Seagal was promoted from 5th dan to 7th dan in aikido, by the Honbu. There are others. Most Japanese systems don't have content requirements for ranks above 5th dan, though......

Why would anyone respect someone who has not spent time in rank?

I'd respect anyone who didn't want to spend time in "camo belt" rank. :lfao:
 
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Twin Fist

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As I have already said, untill recently, there was NO material for any rank past BB, in any system that uses a belt system.

we have have that?

there was NO new material above 1st Dan

after BB, the ranks were so everyone would know who was senior, and were granted based on time in grade, and skill as a teacher.

and thats all.

In texas, where TKD in america started, in the 60's and early 70's, NO ONE tested (in the sense of new material being judged)for anything past 1st anyway. Hell, GM Rhee was in Washington DC after 1962. You think Steen or Burleson went to DC to test? pfffft

They were promoted by Rhee because they were producing students. You still had to test, which were demonstrations at BEST, but there was so few people reaching that level that it wasnt a problem

Pretty much the same thing in Japan

For that matter, Jhoon Rhee never tested in the sense you guys are talking about after 1st Dan.

they had to create material to be required for ranks after 1st dan in the mid 70's, before that there was none.

Hell, for that matter, I knew a school in the 70's that their test for 2nd was to get a 1st Dan in a second art, and X hours teaching art #1
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I'm just not getting why anyone would believe that skipping any rank (color or Dan) would be acceptable.

Physicians can't skip a year of school/residency/fellowship.

Electricians can't skip ahead in their apprenticeship.

No one would want a pilot that had been promoted on time in rank status to a position to fly a new plane they had not sufficient knowledge of.

Why would anyone respect someone who has not spent time in rank?
Taekwondo is not comparable to any of those things. Taekwondo is comparatively simple. Eight forms, four basic kicks, four basic blocks, four basic hand strikes and three basic stances. The rest is all variations of these basic techniques. Those basic techniques and lots and lots of repetition make you good. Colored cloth is only meant to reflect the skills you already have. If you have the skills of a red belt, you should be wearing one. The pomp and ceremony that go with belts are nice confidence builders and good money makers for the school. Nothing more. The only rank that matters are the dan ranks. The rest of it has all been added without any expansion of the curriculum. In fact in some cases (KKW) one could argue that there has been a reduction of curriculum.

People don't respect your rank. They respect your skills.

Take an eight year old blackbelt to an adult blackbelt class and see how much respect he gets. The other yudanja may think he's cute, and they may even cheer him on, but he won't get the respect of an adult blackbelt. Even if the adult started at eighteen and the kid started at six and both got their belt in two years. They respect the twenty year old because the twenty year old can knock them around. The eight year old just looks cute in a dobok.

I will say this, H2: I do not favor skipping ranks. If the rank is there, and if each rank has different material to learn, then each rank should be gone through.

Daniel
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I'd respect anyone who didn't want to spend time in "camo belt" rank. :lfao:
Technically the rank is not the belt, but some geub rank (I don't know which geub gets the camo belt in ATA).

Frankly, I don't care if the belt is hot pink; if the school's instructors have the chops and they turn out exceptional blackbelts, I'd be okay if they told us we had to wear tutus.

Daniel
 
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Twin Fist

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true, but camo is still .............whats the word.....used to mean "happy" or "joyfull".......someone help me out here.....
 

HM2PAC

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The word you are alluding to is "GAY".

Don't beat around the bush, it's juvenile.

elder999 wrote:
I'd respect anyone who didn't want to spend time in "camo belt" rank. :lfao:

Hey, I resemble that remark. I have a camo, my wife does, my daughter does. My son is still a yellow belt. He didn't know his material well enough to advance at the testing. his thread is about skipping rank right? I won't allow my children to advance if they do not know the material. I definitely will never allow them to skip a belt. Even if it means we all have to wear a GAY camo belt.
 

Sukerkin

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It does noone any credit to bicker about such trivialities. If you can't get along then, literally, Ignore each other. Or better still, allow your sense of humour to overcome the ire you may feel at any chiding remarks.

If you are unable to do that then it's not exactly a secret what steps come next if the fractiousness continues to build.
 

jarrod

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i have no idea what the history is between twin fist & hm2pac, but reading this as a tkd outsider i have to say that it is pretty funny.

jf
 

dortiz

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Can you imagine? Its so ready for eating. A little cream sauce and that pancake and its gone....


Dave O.
 

dancingalone

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How would you feel if someone skilled in a similar art like karate or tang soo do joined your school and quickly promoted to black belt based on his prior experience? He would obviously have to learn the local curriculum but most TKD schools have more or less the same the stuff: forms, self-defense, one-steps, & free sparring.
 

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