Humble, Respectful....
Do you feel that respect is a two way street, meaning that you have to give it to get it?
No, I do not feel respect is a two way street, because you don't really have to give it to get it (although that would be nice), and even if you do give it, that does not mean the person will give it back. As I have said in other posts on this subject, I don't believe you "give" or "get" respect. Those are slang terms that distort the true nature of what respect is. In my interpretation, respect is a feeling of worth you have within yourself for something that you believe is of value. You can display the feeling that you have by "showing" respect to others, or telling them you respect them, but it is yours, and yours alone to feel or not feel at your discretion.
Many here have said wonderful things on this topic, so if I may humbly reply with respect....
I believe that everybody deserves some measure of respect right off the bat.
I agree!
But respect is like a bank account, and many people make withdrawals right away, and I lose respect for them.
Interesting analogy. Perhaps this parallels the "value" perspective in a bank account.
I think it was Margaret Thatcher who said "Being powerful is like being a lady -- if you have to tell people you are, you aren't."
Now, wouldn't this quote by Margaret Thatcher be telling everyone that she is both powerful and a lady? hmmmm.
In my school, rank = responsibility. If you want someone to help you, then you better show them respect.
I agree with this also.
I've also hear that some systems require bowing to all Black Belts. We only bow to the teacher, and the flag, at the beginning and end of class.
In our school, we bow to anyone who is senior rank to you. We pay particular attention to any Black Belt and bow when a higher ranked Black Belt enters the room. This keeps students alert to their surroundings, makes them aware of who they should respect in the Dojang, and that each of these Black Belts has a senior that they bow to when that one walks in the room.
But everybody in the school is to be treated with respect, even the children. How can they learn what respect is like, unless they are shown it?
I understand what you are saying, and agree with it. On another point though, children learn from the example. They respect their senior color belts - the senior color belts respect the Black Belts - the Black Belts respect me, and I respect my Grandmaster. Yes, we are all courteous to the children, but like in Korea, there are ways that Adults talk to children, the children would never speak to an adult. We don't "disrespect" the child, but we don't encourage them to have this attitude of, "hey, you adults show me some respect first, or I'm not gonna respect you!" Children learn proper behavior and manners, and they are respected for their actions and conduct.
I try to give respect to everyone whether inside a dojang or out side. Martial artist or not....
...I find reasons to respect everyone I come across.
Excellent attitude - IMHO!
Even if all I can find good about them is the fact that they beat 400,000 other sperm to the egg.
Interesting perspective.
But when I bow to her I show respect for the Grandmaster's opinion of her and the rank he gave her.
I agree with you here, and I think it is sad when people don't get that.
I believe that if you give repect, others will repect you.
Here is where I disagree. Like I said earlier, this is why I say it is not a "two way street." You can give (or show) respect, but the other person does not automatically have to give it (or show it) back. It might happen, and it is nice when it does, but they are independent of one another.
For me showing respect isn't only for the other person it is just as much for my own beliefs, and humility.
This is truly the most insightful, and best response I have read yet! :asian:
because any martial art is a hierarchy, there will be people you meet whose rank requires your respect. It doesn't matter if you like them or not or if you think they deserve their rank or not.
I agree with you 100%
By being objectionable in response or failing to observe the proper respect for their rank you are exhibiting traits that do not 'belong' in a martial arts context.
I can absolutely get behind you on this one!
"You want the school; the school does not need you".
I agree, but will take it in a different direction. I will tell a student that I have already learned what you are seeking. I don't have to be here teaching. I share what I know with others for their benefit. I have already put in the hard work, and proven myself to my instructor so don't come here demanding that I prove myself to you. First, we must get our roles straight. I am the teacher, and you are the student. My job is to teach, and your job is to learn. Don't presume to correct my teaching methods because of some book you read, or some movie you've seen a dozen times, or some other Martial Art school you attended for 2 1/2 years. Empty your cup, and open your mind. Later, you can reject everything I have taught you, if you wish.
I'm going to give an analogy here, because I feel this is important to this topic of "automatic respect" that gets brought up so often. When I was in the Army, one of the obstacle courses we were required to accomplish involved a tall tower of several platforms, with each platform getting wider, and more difficult the higher you go (see photo attachment below). Each platoon of about a dozen soldiers would make their way from the ground to the top, but it was not every man for himself. We would boost two or three up, then each would turn around, get down on their knees or lay on their stomachs, reach down and help pull up the rest of the squad one-by-one. No one got to the top alone, but those who were above you took the time to help you, and several others up.
If you compare this to the Martial Art ranking hierarchy, imagine a tower with 18 platforms. If I see there are Grandmasters up at the distant top, and I climb to reach their level, it will take me some time, and a lot of work. As I go, I make sure that I stop and help a few people up to my platform before moving on. As everyone struggles to reach the top, some might begin to step on the heads, and fingers of others, pushing them back down to make their own way up. I choose not to do that.
I work my way up nine platforms, and realize there are nine more difficult levels to go. One or two of the Grandmasters at the top notice my respect for others, and climb down to help me up a few levels. These Grandmasters have been up and down the tower many times in their lifetime, and can scale the tower in seconds all by themselves. Once they get me beyond the throng, to the 14th platform, I see four more difficult levels above me, but I also notice the many people beneath me struggling to climb up, so I help them. After some time at this level, these Grandmasters who have helped so much tell me to get my butt back down there to the 1st level and start helping even more people up - - so I bow, say "yes, sir!" and go do it.
After several trips up and down, I begin to feel comfortable with my skills at traversing the levels and helping others up. It's been a hard life, but I'm proud of it, and it was worth every scrape and cut, and all the blood, sweat and tears. Now, I see other people having been air-lifted to the very top of other towers near-by, and standing up there as though they are the greatest grandmasters. I see others standing on my tower who I watched step on people and push people out of their way to get to the top. I just continue to help others and am grateful when the Grandmasters at the top help me up one more level.
Then, one day, I'm back near the bottom to help some new beginners get started. One of them questions my methods and begins to argue with me. I politely tell him to have patience, trust me, and I will help him get to the next level. Along the way, I will help him to become stronger, so that he can help others. Again, he challenges my knowledge of how to traverse up the tower, and says to me, "don't expect me to respect you just because you are at a higher level. YOU have to EARN my respect first."
"I'm sorry. I don't have to earn anything from you, sir!" YOU need to learn to respect those who are at a higher level, NOT because they are at a higher level, but how they got there, and what they already did in their life-time to EARN that rank and position. I was not air-lifted to get here, and I did not step on others to put me above them, but you were not here during the decades that these things took place.
You need to respect those on the higher level because they are taking the time to get down on their knees, reach out a hand to you and help pull you up. However, you are going to have to do your part and not expect me to lift your dead weight body up here all on my own while you complain about respect. Now close your mouth - open your hand - grab my hand, and lets work together to get you one step closer to understanding what I'm talking about!"
Think about this. It is difficult to teach people about proper table manners and etiquette, unless you critique them, in which case, some people will be offended and consider you to be the rude one. It is difficult to get a room full of people to be quiet, without making some noise yourself. Sitting quietly sets a good example, but does not always bring about the desired results in a timely manner. Sometimes you have to say, "Shhhhhh! Please be quiet." You had to make some noise in order to bring about silence.
As a Martial Art instructor, I teach respect to many people who don't understand it. Respecting them, or leading by example and respecting my seniors is a good start, but often times, I find it necessary and appropriate to insist on displays of respect, whether they feel respect yet or not. I am teaching them the concept of respect, and how to show it to others - - not that I am demanding it for myself, but I am the teacher in the room upon whom they practice, and learn to respect. Not all students grasp the concept from the start, but all my students are expected to conduct themselves in the same manner, and show the same proper respect until they learn what it means.
In all seriousness, I respect most other martial artists for being martial artists, or even for having a certain rank in the arts.
So yes, I respect many people. However, I'm under the distinct impression that just "respect" is not enough in some situations. And that is where I draw the line.
Carol, you had an excellent post, and I agree with everything you said. :asian:
