Respect

Bill Mattocks

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I've heard people say they don't respect another person until they earn that person's respect. I've often felt that's backwards.

I read something today on Facebook and it was both simple and profound to me. I've long felt this way but never heard it expressed so succinctly.

Respect doesn't have to be earned. Respect is the default. Disrespect has to be earned.

In other words, I respect everyone, until and unless they prove themselves unworthy of my respect.

Respect that you give someone is a reflection of you, not them. Certainly a person can be respectable or disrespectable, but they don't own how you react to them; that comes from you.

Showing respect is an integral part of yourself. Until a person shows themselves to be unworthy of respect, how can they deserve your disrespect?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I agree with hot lunch. It comes down to how you're defining respect.

If you mean something similar to politeness, courtesy, listening, or treating them just as a basic human being, then yeah it shoupd be the default.

If you mean deference, trusting them, or actively valuing their opinions and actong on them, then it needs to be earned in some way.
 

MadMartigan

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I agree with hot lunch. It comes down to how you're defining respect.

If you mean something similar to politeness, courtesy, listening, or treating them just as a basic human being, then yeah it shoupd be the default.

If you mean deference, trusting them, or actively valuing their opinions and actong on them, then it needs to be earned in some way.
Careful now. You're treading dangerously close to a nuanced conversation. This is the internet. There's no place for that sort of thing in these parts!不
 

JowGaWolf

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I've heard people say they don't respect another person until they earn that person's respect. I've often felt that's backwards.

I read something today on Facebook and it was both simple and profound to me. I've long felt this way but never heard it expressed so succinctly.

Respect doesn't have to be earned. Respect is the default. Disrespect has to be earned.

In other words, I respect everyone, until and unless they prove themselves unworthy of my respect.

Respect that you give someone is a reflection of you, not them. Certainly a person can be respectable or disrespectable, but they don't own how you react to them; that comes from you.

Showing respect is an integral part of yourself. Until a person shows themselves to be unworthy of respect, how can they deserve your disrespect?
I think you'll need a dictionary for this one. Respect is determined by culture so, what one person sees as respectful in one culture can be disrespectful in another. Lots of ways this can go.
In terms of how I treat others. I don't think what we do is respect. I think what we do is more of trying not to offend. I don't respect drug dealers, but I also don't go out of my way to offend them. My kindness to others is more about me trying not to be offensive and less about me respecting them. If I'm not offensive, then I don't have to worry go through the headache of trying to determine if I respect someone or not.

Here's an example
Do you respect this guy? What was your first reaction? What was your first thought?

WM-Pop-10-Most-Dangerous-Inmates-in-the-World_Y6K8D6-1F_480.jpg


What about this guy with the mug shot? What's your first reaction? Your first thought?
R.bdf54c4963f2562f149a9843328deec5


For me respect takes too much brain power, so I let people earn it. When I say earn it, I don't mean they have to prove to me that I should respect them. When I say someone earns my respect, I simply mean that the person should be themselves and I will base my respect for them on their behavior. There's people I have respect for who I have never talked to simply because their behavior was something I could respect..
 

Buka

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I disagree. Deference is yielding to someone, looking at someone as superior.

Respect is not that.
 

_Simon_

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I've always felt the exact same, Bill :).

Have heard people say well then you'll feel let down/disappointed/betrayed if they lose your respect, but I feel the key is its not respect as an attachment to an expectation, but like you say, a default respect for the other, we're both human beings, living on this planet trying to do the best we can. I'd prefer not to start out in a modality of "you have to earn my respect". Feels like a defensive or almost paranoid way of living.. but that's just me. It doesn't mean I'm naive, but my baseline is respect, and if they lose it, ah well.

And like mentioned there very well may be a definition thing here that needs clearing.
 

Fungus

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Do you respect this guy? What was your first reaction? What was your first thought?

WM-Pop-10-Most-Dangerous-Inmates-in-the-World_Y6K8D6-1F_480.jpg



What about this guy with the mug shot? What's your first reaction? Your first thought?
R.bdf54c4963f2562f149a9843328deec5
For me I interpret what Bill wrote about showing respect for them as human beeings. It does not mean I trust them, or agree that everything they do is right. Also to "respect someone for their skill or knowledge" is a different notion; that is earnt I think. But I think to be respected as human beeings, is something all should be given as a default.

The other day our sensei told us in class that respect for each other inside and outside the dojo is the most important lesson, all other things (kihon, kata, fighting) is second to that.
 

Hot Lunch

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I disagree. Deference is yielding to someone, looking at someone as superior.

Respect is not that.
Exactly. That's the point. Deference is what is earned. No one should have to earn their way out of being treated with disrespect as the default.
 

JowGaWolf

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Exactly. That's the point. Deference is what is earned. No one should have to earn their way out of being treated with disrespect as the default.
If you don't respect someone then does that mean you are disrespectful to them?
I'm sure that people who say this mean it as a compliment, but I take it as an insult.
That's because respect is based on culture. It's much easier to not make things about respect all the time. A bow in one country is a sign of respect. A bow in another country is a sign of weakness and submission. In this case. Who is the one giving respect?

Is it the country who sees bows as a form of respect or is it the country that sees bowing as weakness that is disrespectful, because they should not ask that person to submit by bowing.

It's much easier to make it less about respect and more about not being offensive.
 

Hot Lunch

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If you don't respect someone then does that mean you are disrespectful to them?
Yes. Disrespect is the opposite of respect. And your lack of respect for the person is going to show.

That's because respect is based on culture. It's much easier to not make things about respect all the time. A bow in one country is a sign of respect. A bow in another country is a sign of weakness and submission. In this case. Who is the one giving respect?

Is it the country who sees bows as a form of respect or is it the country that sees bowing as weakness that is disrespectful, because they should not ask that person to submit by bowing.

It's much easier to make it less about respect and more about not being offensive.
If someone tells me, "you have earned my respect," it implies that they think I'm seeking their approval and/or they would have treated me with disrespect had I not done that particular thing.
 
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JowGaWolf

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Some people demand respectss in ways that would be disrespectful to myself.
Yes. Your lack of respect for the person is going to show.
Do you respect people who force children to be soldiers? When was the last time you did something disrespectful to those type of people? When was the last time you went out of your way to show your disrespect for them?
 

Hot Lunch

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Do you respect people who force children to be soldiers?
Respect is the default; disrespect is earned. This has been stated many times in this thread. This would be one of those situations where disrespect is earned. I'm sure you know that.

When was the last time you did something disrespectful to those type of people? When was the last time you went out of your way to show your disrespect for them?
I never met one.
 

JowGaWolf

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If someone tells me, "you have earned my respect," it implies that they think I'm seeking their approval and/or they would have treated me with disrespect had I not done that particular thing.
Does this make you feel disrespected or do you just feel offended.

One time a man gave me a hand shake that I thought was necessary so I squeezed his hand back as I looked him in his eyes. After that he complimented me for doing so. To him my actions were admirable something he respected.

My side of what went through my head was this guy was trying to dominate me and he had a crazed look in his eye so my firm grip was in case I needed to control any aggressive action and me looking him in the eye was me being prepared to hit him if needed.

Who was disrespectful? Me or him? If I was being disrespectful then why did he take it as a sign of respect? If he was being respectful then why did I take offense to it.
 

HighKick

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Does this make you feel disrespected or do you just feel offended.

One time a man gave me a hand shake that I thought was necessary so I squeezed his hand back as I looked him in his eyes. After that he complimented me for doing so. To him my actions were admirable something he respected.

My side of what went through my head was this guy was trying to dominate me and he had a crazed look in his eye so my firm grip was in case I needed to control any aggressive action and me looking him in the eye was me being prepared to hit him if needed.

Who was disrespectful? Me or him? If I was being disrespectful then why did he take it as a sign of respect? If he was being respectful then why did I take offense to it.
I would say neither were disrespectful. Just sounds like a proper handshake to me. Of course, I cannot speak to the person's eyes as I did not see them.
 

Steve

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I agree with hot lunch. It comes down to how you're defining respect.

If you mean something similar to politeness, courtesy, listening, or treating them just as a basic human being, then yeah it shoupd be the default.

If you mean deference, trusting them, or actively valuing their opinions and actong on them, then it needs to be earned in some way.
Agreed. This is the difference between respecting someone and being respectful.
 

JowGaWolf

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Respect is the default; disrespect is earned. This has been stated many times in this thread. This would be one of those situations where disrespect is earned. I'm sure you know that.
Ok. So you say that someone like this has earned your disrespect. So again. When was the last time you did something disrespectful to a person who creates child soldiers? Do you go on social media and show your disrespect? Do you call them out and call them names? Do you create post saying. Even in this post when asked that question you have not spoken of how much you disrespect them.

I'm assuming that your lack of respect for them would be so great that it would show. But it doesn't. This is the point I'm making. Just because you don't respect someone doesn't mean you are actively disrespecting them. It also doesn't mean that your disrespect for them shows. By your comments you don't actively go out of your way to show disrespect for people who create child soldiers.

Definition of Disrespect: to lack special regard or respect for : to have disrespect
This can exist without it showing.

Definition of Disrespect: to show or express disrespect or contempt for,
This is not necessary for having a lack of respect for someone. I can have a lack of respect for someone and not show it. I often do this in the workplace with people who I do not think highly of. I often do this outside of the workplace because I'm old skool "Don't start none and there won't be none."

My belief is that people don't need to know have a "real-time" emotional reading that I dislike them or don't respect them. Sometimes there are things more important than me telling someone how little I think of them. My guess is that you fall into this same category. My guess is that if you did know someone who creates child soldiers, you would still probably fall into this category.
 

Fungus

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That's because respect is based on culture. It's much easier to not make things about respect all the time. A bow in one country is a sign of respect. A bow in another country is a sign of weakness and submission. In this case. Who is the one giving respect?
I guess there is yet another distinction here: what someone does and what it's intentions are, and how it is perceived or interpreted by others.

Different cultures or even very different personalities can cause misunderstandings, but if all have with good intentions and give others at least the benefit of doubt and show respect in our own way we are on the right path.
 
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