Respect

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There are 2 different ways to live.

1. You give and you expect return.
2. You don't give and you don't expect return.

Which way is better?

If you prefer

- 1, when you don't receive return, you will feel bad.
- 2, since you don't expect return, nothing can bother you.

I know I don't belong to the mainstream. When I post, I don't expect people to agree with me. I'm happy if there is just 1 person who agree with me. If I always expect people to agree with me, when there is just 1 person who disagree with me, I may feel bad.

I do believe "don't care" is the best way to deal with our life.
Lately I see a lot of people combining them, they don't give and they expect return. Pretty much every Karen video on YouTube is evidence of this.
 

Steve

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There are 2 different ways to live.

1. You give and you expect return.
2. You don't give and you don't expect return.

Which way is better?

If you prefer

- 1, when you don't receive return, you will feel bad.
- 2, since you don't expect return, nothing can bother you.

I know I don't belong to the mainstream. When I post, I don't expect people to agree with me. I'm happy if there is just 1 person who agree with me. If I always expect people to agree with me, when there is just 1 person who disagree with me, I may feel bad.

I do believe "don't care" is the best way to deal with our life.

Life's just not that clean, but even as a general rule, there are a couple more possibilities:

You can give and not expect a return. (altruism)
You don't give and expect a return. (entitlement)

Ultimately, though, as the old saying goes, "It's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all." What I mean is, not caring seems like a pretty miserable and lonely way to live.
 

HighKick

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There are 2 different ways to live.

1. You give and you expect return.
2. You don't give and you don't expect return.

Which way is better?

If you prefer

- 1, when you don't receive return, you will feel bad.
- 2, since you don't expect return, nothing can bother you.

I know I don't belong to the mainstream. When I post, I don't expect people to agree with me. I'm happy if there is just 1 person who agree with me. If I always expect people to agree with me, when there is just 1 person who disagree with me, I may feel bad.

I do believe "don't care" is the best way to deal with our life.
There is DEFINITELY another way to live.

You give and you expect NOTHING in return.

Far and away the best way to live.
 

Steve

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The reason that you don't cut in line, is it because you respect all those people in line? You don't even know who they are. You don't cut in line because there is a rule in this society that everybody needs to follow. You just do whatever that you suppose to do. It has nothing to do with respect.
This is respect for social norms and polite respect for public conduct. It's different than respect from fear, because the motivation for this is grounded in shared morality and not fear.

Other, different types of respect that I would like to propose:

Respect from fear - Respect the band saw, etc...
Social Respect - don't cut in lines, etc.
Institutional/organizational respect - respect for things (and then people who achieve them by proxy). A diploma, a belt rank, wealth, etc...
Reverential respect - this is respect for abstracts. Religion, patriotism, awe of nature... touching the profound...
Individual respect - the kind of evaluative respect that some folks here refer to, where you get to know someone and determine that they are worthy of your esteem.

Anyway, just my two cents. I think respect is a valuable topic. That said, I think there are at least five completely different species of respect, things can get muddled.
 

HighKick

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The reason that you don't cut in line, is it because you respect all those people in line? You don't even know who they are. You don't cut in line because there is a rule in this society that everybody needs to follow. You just do whatever that you suppose to do. It has nothing to do with respect.
I cannot agree with this. I would better say 'respect' and common manners are kinsmen.
And there is a heavy quotient of simple common sense to not cutting line and causing conflict.
 

JowGaWolf

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Anyway, just my two cents. I think respect is a valuable topic. That said, I think there are at least five completely different species of respect, things can get muddled.
I agree with you. Respect is far more complex than most people initially think off the bat. Maybe that's what the world needs more discussion on. Not to say what is right or wrong but to see how they understand respect. This is one thing I like about this group. We may not always get along but at least we can talk about stuff.

My guess is that many of the same topics we speak about here wouldn't be as civil in the Facebook environment.
 

JowGaWolf

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Words to live by.
lol Ok Steve. I'm only going to give you 2 agreements today. That's my limit for you. lol. Just kidding. When you are right you are right.
 

Steve

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I cannot agree with this. I would better say 'respect' and common manners are kinsmen.
And there is a heavy quotient of simple common sense to not cutting line and causing conflict.
Just my opinion, but courtesy and manners are the object. Respecting those things is the verb.

Regarding whether you follow rules or not is a completely different topic, and I don't think common sense has anything to do with it. It's about risk/reward, and a lack of social conscience.

The tools that society has to enforce rules include moral education (parents, teachers, etc), social pressure, shame, and then eventually enforcement (formal "I'm calling the cops" or informal "I'm going to beat your ***").

So, not cutting in line has nothing to do with common sense. It's about whether you were ever taught that cutting in line is bad, whether you acknowledge and respect the social pressure to follow the rules, whether you are susceptible to shame, and whether you are comfortable with any potential repercussions from enforcement.
 

JowGaWolf

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So, not cutting in line has nothing to do with common sense. It's about whether you were ever taught that cutting in line is bad,
I don't think this has to be a formal type of teaching. You can put kids in line and have one kid cut in line. What sometimes happens is the offended kid will either cry, get angry and push the other kid out of line, or do nothing. I'm leaning more towards it's one of the natural human responses as kids have their own pecking order. If the kids like the teacher, then they will want to be close to the teacher and closer to the front. Anyone who steps in pushed them further away from the teacher will have to pay the price for cutting in line.

Being in line also means you are first to get something and I'm sure kids pick that up really quick. Someone gets in line in front means the offend chick doesn't get that drink first.

When I was working with kids, one of the thing I would always tell time was "We are all going to the same place." It doesn't matter if you are in first of the line or the back. of the line.

However, this is not the same as getting in line to get free cookies. In this scenario parents will tell children. Get in line before all the cookies are gone

Like you state everything doesn't boil down to respect
 

shihansmurf

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Okay, so for people who are saying that "respect is earned" - and insist on using the word "respect" and not "deference" - what is the default? Is it disrespect? Is it contempt? What is it?

I would say the default would be to treat people politely.
 

shihansmurf

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Abilities, qualities, and achievements are the key words here.


re繚spect

NOUN

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements:

"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"

VERB
  1. admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements:
    "she was respected by everyone she worked with"
The dictionary definition of the word isn't helpful in regard to how people are using it in this thread.

Going by the above, I would have to say that "respect is earned" might be true but this still conflates it to defference.

Just my view,
Mark
 

Kung Fu Wang

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The dictionary definition of the word isn't helpful in regard to how people are using it in this thread.

Going by the above, I would have to say that "respect is earned" might be true but this still conflates it to defference.

Just my view,
Mark
The Bing definition give us a common ground for discussion. If we don't agree with the definition, further discussion will have no meaning.
 

Hot Lunch

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This is respect for social norms and polite respect for public conduct. It's different than respect from fear, because the motivation for this is grounded in shared morality and not fear.

Other, different types of respect that I would like to propose:

Respect from fear - Respect the band saw, etc...
Social Respect - don't cut in lines, etc.
Institutional/organizational respect - respect for things (and then people who achieve them by proxy). A diploma, a belt rank, wealth, etc...
Reverential respect - this is respect for abstracts. Religion, patriotism, awe of nature... touching the profound...
Individual respect - the kind of evaluative respect that some folks here refer to, where you get to know someone and determine that they are worthy of your esteem.

Anyway, just my two cents. I think respect is a valuable topic. That said, I think there are at least five completely different species of respect, things can get muddled.
Social respect seems to be the only one there isn't another adequate word for.

Respect from fear - carefulness
Institutional/organizational respect - deference
Reverential respect - appreciation
Individual respect - affinity

The closest thing I can come up with for social respect is "common courtesy," but that's merely the way in which the respect is shown, and not a replacement for the word "respect" itself.
 

shihansmurf

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Otherwise known as respect
Seems like you want to ague for the sake of the argument.

If you take the definition the Kung Fu Wang posted then the terms are not synonyms. You can be polite to people that you don't respect. I do so at work all the time.

Mark
 

Kung Fu Wang

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You can be polite to people that you don't respect. I do so at work all the time.
The same as you can like a girl but you don't love her. It's OK to say, "I like both of you girls". It's not proper to say, "I love both of you girls". When you say that you love all girls, you truly say that you love no girl.
 
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Hot Lunch

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Lol you can be polite to people who you don't respect. The majority of work places have people doing this daily. This is why politics is the one thing that is often banned.
So when you perform an act of common courtesy for a stranger, do you consider this to be "being polite to people that you don't respect?" Have you already decided that a particular stranger with whom you never spoken is someone that you don't respect?

In the case you gave for being polite to coworkers that you don't respect, there are extrinsic motives behind that.
 
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