If anything, I'd say that winning a lot of trophies at regional and national tournaments (not "in-house tournaments") is a sign the school is less likely to be a Mcdojo. It shows that the school produces students who are fairly skilled in that style - and also that the school isn't afraid to have their students see what other schools do, that the school encourages their students to go out and test what they've learned and see if it works. Now, it could be that the style itself isn't very effective and the competitions for it are easy, but that's a different issue.
McDojos
- Thread starter Azulx
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If anything, I'd say that winning a lot of trophies at regional and national tournaments (not "in-house tournaments") is a sign the school is less likely to be a Mcdojo. It shows that the school produces students who are fairly skilled in that style - and also that the school isn't afraid to have their students see what other schools do, that the school encourages their students to go out and test what they've learned and see if it works. Now, it could be that the style itself isn't very effective and the competitions for it are easy, but that's a different issue.
Not offended a bit...I believe whether or not a dojo is geared for self defense or sport, holds a lot of merit. At least to the unknowing student that walks through the door. Most people do not walk in for sport, in my experience.
I do agree with your statement, concerning allowing students to check out other systems and schools. I half agree with the statement concerning trophies...if it's full contact.
Tez3 wrote:
To which you dodged:
And then of course there is MY direct question (actually two questions), which you quoted in order to dodge yet again.
Dodging a direct question doesn't really help your credibility...
Answering questions helps people to understand your viewpoint.
The people who have been around a while have, generally, already answered questions about their training and experience, but you're certainly free to ask them to repeat old posts if you like.
One of the reasons I asked for experience is that we often get college/school students asking similar questions and wanting our answers to use for their essays and projects instead of them doing the research. We also get martial arts students whose instructors require them to write essays for grading, they too should do their own research, many don't say until a lot later on that they want us to provide the info for them.
I don't usually mind providing info if people aren't being lazy, I just like to know why, I'm nosy. I was trained to be professionally nosy
I don't usually mind providing info if people aren't being lazy, I just like to know why, I'm nosy. I was trained to be professionally nosy
I disagree...I responded with a question concerning two different scenarios. Which one are you asking for .... Dojo?
I trained in a system called Doshinkan..which was taught to me by my father...who learned from Watler Todd. It was eight years before I received a rank of Black belt (it's how he taught us kids) he wanted to make sure we understood the fundamentals. From there I trained with a fellow by the name of John Kurtz, who is experienced in, Tai Chi, Wing Chun, 5 animal kung fu and walked the circle continuously lol. I tried my hand at Amatuer kickboxing for a short time, unfortunately, there was Not a lot of interest in kickboxing in the area. At the completion of those systems, my new career took me all over the U.S. and I was fortunate enough to train in many systems, albeit not for extended periods. Most of the time it was trading systems with the instructors, tai chi seemed to be the most popular one amongst other instructors. Once I settled back into my hometown...I pretty much focused on the original system I was taught. Mostly because I liked the drills associated with it and it was my base art. I still do practice the kung fu I learned but not extensively. I enjoy pa kua quite a bit.
One of the reasons I asked for experience is that we often get college/school students asking similar questions and wanting our answers to use for their essays and projects instead of them doing the research. We also get martial arts students whose instructors require them to write essays for grading, they too should do their own research, many don't say until a lot later on that they want us to provide the info for them.
I don't usually mind providing info if people aren't being lazy, I just like to know why, I'm nosy. I was trained to be professionally nosy
JR 137
Grandmaster
In my experience, it seems most people walk in for recreation, not self defense. Recreation meaning exercise, socialization, stress relief, etc. While most of us here are there for the combative aspects (self defense or whatever other semantic label they use) among other aspects as well, most aren't truly after the combative aspect IMO.
mograph
Master of Arts
Yeah. I'm not sure if citing our discussions on MT is very ... scholarly.
Nevertheless, for the students in the crowd, here's the MLA citation format:
Tez3. "McDojos." 27 Apr. 2016. MartialTalk General Martial Arts Talk Forum. 27 Apr. 2006.
http://www.martialtalk.com/threads/mcdojos.120805/page-3
The corresponding APA format is left as an exercise for the student.
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oaktree
Master of Arts
I really don't hate on mcdojo anymore then I parents feeding there kids McDonald's as long as the people involved know what it is they are getting and not thinking they are getting filet mignon. My nephew goes to a tkd mcdojo day care thing my sister pays $300 a month cause again after school care is ridiculously expensive and my sister is a teacher! So they do a good job, give him a snack, teach him so power ranger equivalent martial arts(not a knock at tkd only speaking about the kids class) and make sure he does his homework. It is a pretty good structure mcdojo program that address the kids needs
When we go into the other direction of mcdojo with adults pretending what they are doing then yes it's a problem which is why people should investigate and research what they are getting into
When we go into the other direction of mcdojo with adults pretending what they are doing then yes it's a problem which is why people should investigate and research what they are getting into
Personally, I'm always surprised/baffled/disappointed/angry when a martial arts school can have the kids on-site for 3 hours a day, 5 days a week and not turn them into good martial artists for their age. I know they're not training the whole time they're in aftercare, but presumably they take a class every day, right? How can a teacher tolerate that their students come to class every day for a year and they're still out of shape, can't spar for **** or do their forms right? I'd be tearing my hair out, trying to figure out where we failed!
oaktree
Master of Arts
Because it's a mcdojo it's Aim is to make money so it aim is not to teach martial arts but to make sure the parents are happy with the results.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Yeah, but there's no shortage of the "soccer moms" (maybe McDojo moms?) telling each other how there kid's the best and how much the other mom's kid is improving.
I went to the aftercare McDojo near my work just to get a glimpse of what was really going on. My head was pounding (not an exaggeration) after 5 minutes of the chaos of 4 classes going on at the same time on the same floor, and the housewives wearing their yoga clothes and drinking their venti soy lattes from Starbucks telling each other how great their kid is at everything. Or maybe it was the dojo mascot bringing in the next group of kids from the playground out back.
I'd call what was going on on the floor a lot of things. Effective martial arts isn't one of them.
Everyone's got to do what they've got to do. I don't have much hate for that place, but I definitely chuckle when I hear about how good their black belts are. I have a few of them in my science classes.
Welcome to MartialTalk Michael. You will find that new members get a lot of attention.
To my knowledge that's something we don't have here, we have after school clubs run by schools and charities plus we have child minders. They all have to be run according to government OFSTED standards and are inspected, a martial arts class wouldn't be within the parameters considered for child care. While we do have children's classes and I'm sure we have what you could call McDojos they are just teaching martial arts once a week perhaps twice for an hour approx. each time. Martial arts is still a predominately adult pastime/sport/hobby here.
Very few martial arts clubs (still predominately clubs not schools) have their own building, most teach in church halls, sports centres etc. We have a local club that teaches JKD, they are very good and do have their own building but the boss, the chief instructor still has a day job. there isn't a lot of money in martial arts here of any type.
If the trophies were fake then maybe, otherwise it might just mean that they are successful at tournaments. If you want to advertise goods or a service then you want to display what's good about it.
lklawson
Grandmaster
Again, why does your argument merit any attention?
And what is that experience again?
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
oaktree
Master of Arts
A lot of the after school programs are teacher's bread and butter IF they teach martial arts as their sole source of income.
Doing the math $300. a month times 30 kids and you are making $9000 a month. Got a birthday how about a birthday party $300 extra for 3 hours. Also charge for moving up belts an extra $100 Summer camp we can ask for $350 or $400 because where else are you going to send your kid that also still makes them do school work summer school?!
I wonder if I should do this now that I think of it.....I don't mind selling my integrity making that much money I could always buy another one
lklawson
Grandmaster
Perfect. You should be aware that Doshinkan has been identified by some as a "McDojo" system.
This isn't "fraudbusting," just an example of what I'm talking about. A guy in a thread about "McDojos," who is making accusations about "McDojos," is himself a member of a system accused of being a "McDojo."
That's just the way it is. Somebody, somewhere, using their own definition, which seems logical to them, thinks [fill in the blank] martial art or dojo is a "McDojo."
It's pretty well become a meaningless pejorative. Just train in what you're training, teach what you're teaching, and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing Gladys.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
lklawson
Grandmaster
Replace martial arts with something else. A foreign language, an instrument, or mathematics. How good would you expect a child to be at piano? I wouldn't expect concert capability.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
