master rank

[jks9199]

There might be some deluded fool out there who'd call me a master. Then again, there might not. I've trained for more than 30 years. I know a bit. I have plenty left to learn. I don't know that I've added to the system... but I've had some good students come up, so I think maybe at least helped maintain it.

I compare myself to my instructor... He's a master. By nearly anyone's definition -- in or out of our system. I'm happy if I'm just a good student of his... and that he continues to teach me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In my association American Combat Shuai Chiao Association (ACSCA),

1st degree - you pass the ranking test.
2nd degree - you have won 1st or 2nd place in national level tournament.
3rd degree - you pass instructor test and you are qualified to teach.

For 4th degree and beyond, you have to

- publish book,
- publish DVD.
- sponsor tournament.
- offer workshop.
- train your own team.
- ...

Usually, above 7th degree, people can call you "master". So there is still a long way to go after you have been certified as "instructor" before you can reach to "master" level. As far as the "Grandmaster (GM)" title, you have to wait after your death.

 

[Tames D]

In my association American Combat Shuai Chiao Association (ACSCA),

1st degree - you pass the ranking test.
2nd degree - you have won 1st or 2nd place in national level tournament.
3rd degree - you pass instructor test and you are qualified to teach.

For 4th degree and beyond, you have to

- publish book,
- publish DVD.
- sponsor tournament.
- offer workshop.
- train your own team.
- ...

Usually, above 7th degree, people can call you "master". So there is still a long way to go after you have been certified as "instructor" before you can reach to "master" level. As far as the "Grandmaster (GM)" title, you have to wait after your death.

What style do you train in? I find it strange that you have to publish a book to advance in rank.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What style do you train in? I find it strange that you have to publish a book to advance in rank.

Chan Chiao (Combat Shuai Chiao - Chinese wrestling).

In ACSCA, the

- 1st degree to the 3rd degree are "personal ability" rank.
- 4th degree and up are "style contribution" rank.

 

[Dirty Dog]

How can you tell him he is wrong when you admit you may not have the correct answer?

Because a sweeping generalization about what rank gets a given title across 6,000 styles and orgs is pretty much guaranteed to be wrong.

Here, I like this, so I'll leave it here for you.

View attachment 19952

 

[Tames D]

Because a sweeping generalization about what rank gets a given title across 6,000 styles and orgs is pretty much guaranteed to be wrong.

Here, I like this, so I'll leave it here for you.

View attachment 19952

I knew I'd get a cop out response from you.

 

[MI_martialist]

I guess in order to have a solid answer, everyone would have to agree on what a Master is. I have trained folks who just earned their "master belt" in some style and wanted me to call them Master...I smiled and called them by their first name. I have heard of Eternal Grand Master...beat that one! Where I train, one is a student until one can enter the Menkyo training system wherein they are trained to be Assistant Instructor, Instructor, Trainer, etc...it has nothing to do with mastery of technique but rather mastery of teaching methods...don't take this the wrong way...you gotta be good at what you do!

 

[Balrog]

how many master rank martial artist are there on this forum

"Master" isn't a rank. It's a title.

In the ATA, one must first achieve the rank of 6th Degree Black Belt to become a Master Candidate. If you then meet other requirements, you are invited to join the next Master Class and you become a Master Nominee. After a year of training, over and above your regular TKD training, you are inducted as a Master. Same process for 7th Degree and Senior Master, 8th Degree and Chief Master. Testing for 9th Degree and Grand Master doesn't happen all that often. We will induct our fifth and sixth Grand Masters at the end of this month, and Chief Master G. K. Lee will be testing for his 9th Degree. Next year (assuming he promotes), he'll be come the seventh Grand Master.

 

[Balrog]

I guess in order to have a solid answer, everyone would have to agree on what a Master is. I have trained folks who just earned their "master belt" in some style and wanted me to call them Master...I smiled and called them by their first name. I have heard of Eternal Grand Master...beat that one!

That title was awarded posthumously to Grand Master H. U. Lee. A delegation of high-ranking martial artists from a variety of styles petitioned ATA to do this in recognition of his contributions to martial arts in general and Taekwondo in particular. He was awarded the rank of 10th Degree and the title. It was a fitting award - he was the founder of the organization after all.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

This doesn't directly apply to the OP, but here's my .02. I've never been overly fond of the term "master," as it is an ambiguous term, that many inside the arts don't fully understand, and nearly no one outside of the martial arts understand. Sah Bum was described to me as "teacher of teachers." I like that, as it best describes the responsibility of the rank. I teach other black belts to be better teachers themselves. I have not mastered anything, as there is always something to improve upon, no matter the age or rank.

To answer the OP, I am a 6th dan, which under my association is a master rank.

 

[mograph]

As for your "coach", that's essentially the equivalent of "sifu" or "sensei", so why not use it?

Speaking for myself, if I taught, I would prefer "coach" over "sifu" or "sensei" because, outside of a highly formalized system, I see the adoption of an honorific from outside my culture as putting distance between me and my students; a distance I don't think I've earned or desire. Having taught in community college, I realize that there needs to be an optimal distance between teacher and student, but in a mostly English-speaking martial arts class, I would see "coach" as representing the optimum. But first name would be fine, too.

However, if the class used non-English (e.g. Chinese or Japanese) vocabulary frequently and consistently, I would see the point in my being addressed as "sifu" or "sensei" in order to create a consistent environment.

It just might be my experience or preference. Every guy I've attended class under preferred our using his first name, and the terminology used has been English when it came to techniques or methods. However, the exception has been the elderly Chinese gent who I study under now: all his students, young or old, Chinese or Anglo, call him "sifu" out of respect.

 

[Xue Sheng]

master rank is usually 5 th degree black at least that what I thought .

As has already been mentioned, not all styles have belt ranks or for that matter ranks at all. No traditional Chinese marital art uses colored belt/sash ranks. My shifu, who has been training for 60 years, would not be a master rank by the belt standard, but then he hates to me called master, he prefers to be referred to by his first name of shifu.

Another gentleman I had the luck to train with has also been at this for 60 year years and he prefers to be called Wang Shifu, but not se keen on being called master.

I've been doing this stuff for a bit over 40, I have taught, I am not master, and I prefer to be called by my 1st name

 

[GiYu - Todd]

The founder of Aikido didn't want the title "Master" because he felt that if you mastered something, you had nothing more to learn... and you should always have something more to learn. He preferred the term "O Sensei" or "Great Teacher". I admire the humbleness in that concept. I'm sure there are people in various arts who have truly mastered the materials of that art, but those people are vastly less numerous than the number of people claiming the title "master".

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I've met some great martial artists along the way and none of the best have claimed the title "master". In fact, I've heard some of them explicitly disavow the title (even though they undoubtedly deserved it more than 99.9% of individuals titled "master" or "grandmaster").

Personally, I like "coach" if someone wants to call me something other than my first name.

 

[PhotonGuy]

how many master rank martial artist are there on this forum

That depends. Some styles don't use a master rank and there are some instructors who don't like to use the term.

 

[mograph]

... and I prefer to be called by my 1st name

I can see why you wouldn't want your students to call you "Xue Sheng." Too confusing.

 

[Danny T]

Many of my students call me Sifu,
many call me Kru or Khru
many call me Guro,
some call me Coach,
some call me Sir.
Sifu is a term of endearment usually reserved for the head of the school and means Father/Teacher.
Kru is simply 'teacher'
Gruo is simply 'teacher'
Coach is simply 'one who give lessons to another'
Sir is a form of polite address to another person.
None imply an sense of rank other than being a teacher, instructor, or the father (head) of the school.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Many of my students call me Sifu,
many call me Kru or Khru
many call me Guro,
some call me Coach,
some call me Sir.
Sifu is a term of endearment usually reserved for the head of the school and means Father/Teacher.
Kru is simply 'teacher'
Gruo is simply 'teacher'
Coach is simply 'one who give lessons to another'
Sir is a form of polite address to another person.
None imply an sense of rank other than being a teacher, instructor, or the father (head) of the school.

I started reading this thinking it was a poem

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

some call me Coach,
Sifu is a term of endearment usually reserved for the head of the school and means Father/Teacher.

The major difference between "Sifu" and "coach" is, A Sifu will have responsibility to bail your student out of jail. A coach doesn't have that kind of responsibility. The term Sifu has the father-son type of relationship.

 

[geezer]

Some are called "master" when still quite young. Like the young man on the left in this photo:

https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/BruceWayneJamesGordon.jpg

That would be the non-Chinese Master Bruce, of course, with Detective Gordon.