Interact with quality martial artists.

[tshadowchaser]

learning from those more experienced then you or those better at a certain part of the art are the best ways to learn. Fighting is only a small part of it. I know I have learn enormous amounts while sitting at a table listening to others talk about things. I have also had complete strangers give me a word of advice, after watching me, which I latter tried and found to work well.
Yes interaction with those better, more experienced, and more knowledgeable is where you learn. Opening your ears is a good way to do it.

 

[drop bear]

learning from those more experienced then you or those better at a certain part of the art are the best ways to learn. Fighting is only a small part of it. I know I have learn enormous amounts while sitting at a table listening to others talk about things. I have also had complete strangers give me a word of advice, after watching me, which I latter tried and found to work well.
Yes interaction with those better, more experienced, and more knowledgeable is where you learn. Opening your ears is a good way to do it.

i agree. I am suggesting it is an important element but not the only one.

I am focusing on one aspect.

 

[Danny T]

I do kind of mean sparring as well. And sparring someone good. Getting a move of on a noob is not the same as getting one off on a quality guy.

Agreed, sparring someone below your skills and abilities is good to help them as long as you don't overwhelm them. For your growth train, practice, and spar with those who are better than you.

 

[Transk53]

Agreed, sparring someone below your skills and abilities is good to help them as long as you don't overwhelm them. For your growth train, practice, and spar with those who are better than you.

Really that should be obvious, but very good words

 

[Matt Bryers]

Is possibly one of the more underrated concepts relating to martial arts advancement and personal advancement.

Find good fighters. Fight them. And be humbled by them. A constant quest to be the small fish in the big pond.

Which i accept is hard because it is much nicer to win all the time.

I personally think cross training, sparring and having an open mind with other like minded quality martial artists is the one of the keys to developing true ability.

You are presented with new techniques and concepts
You roll / spar with people
And you get to see where flaws exist in your own game.

In regards to winning... Everyone likes to win obviously. But there's a bigger picture... And that's the management and use of fear as a weapon. I think this might make a good new topic.

 

[drop bear]

I personally think cross training, sparring and having an open mind with other like minded quality martial artists is the one of the keys to developing true ability.

You are presented with new techniques and concepts
You roll / spar with people
And you get to see where flaws exist in your own game.

In regards to winning... Everyone likes to win obviously. But there's a bigger picture... And that's the management and use of fear as a weapon. I think this might make a good new topic.

do a thread sounds fun.

My concept is probably more about loosing. So Say I manhandle every guy in my club. I am going to plateau a bit. I have to find an environment where i am loosing again.

Cross training is definitely part of it. But can also raise my point about quality. You see those martial arts that do defence against a wrestler or something. And they get one of their guys to imitate a wrestlers movements.

And because it is not really the same thing. The effect becomes different..

 

[drop bear]

Really that should be obvious, but very good words

It is not natural.
It is more natural to dominate lesser talented people.. It is easier and the rewards are quicker.

I find i will instinctively take the easier fight. Especially in a club situation where i could choose to partner with a serious guy who is going to grind me for five minutes.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I think what he means is that under certain conditions, fighting would allow a bigger perspective on what has been taught.

I suppose it depends on what you consider fighting.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I do kind of mean sparring as well. And sparring someone good. Getting a move of on a noob is not the same as getting one off on a quality guy.

As martial artists we must always remember that we do not train in a vacuum.

Agreed, sparring someone below your skills and abilities is good to help them as long as you don't overwhelm them.

Sparring someone lesser experienced and skills can also benefit you because then you can do some things you can not usually pull off on more skilled than you, which you then get better at and will thus have a better chance of doing it with a more experience opponent.

For your growth train, practice, and spar with those who are better than you.

Agree, if you don't challenge yourself you can not improve.

 

[Transk53]

a serious guy who is going to grind me for five minutes.

You want to grind for five minutes with a bloke

 

[RTKDCMB]

You want to grind for five minutes with a bloke

Beats twerking.

 

[Transk53]

I suppose it depends on what you consider fighting.

Yeah maybe. The average Jo would be slappsies at dawn, then leg it wildly gesticulating on how the person is going to smash them up. Followed by lots of yawning from my perspective. Over the years though, I have heard it said that to know what a right cross is for example, it don't hurt to feel what a right cross is. To consider fighting though, I would imagine that our opinions would be poles apart, but probably not that different if you see what I mean.

 

[Transk53]

Beats twerking.

Yeah, don't have a big enough bum for twerking lol

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

you have to fight them otherwise you can't really learn what they have to teach.

Will you be able to learn "hip throw" from just wrestling with someone?

I know a guy who has trained for 6 years. He loved sparring/wrestling. During sparring/wrestling, he always used his speed, power, and endurance. After 6 years, he still could not even apply a basic "hip throw" on any resisted opponent. It was very difficult to take him down, but he had not yet developed any skills to take his opponents down either.

You can "test" your skill in sparring/wrestling, but you can't "develop" your skill from sparring/wrestling. You can only develop your skill from "partner training".

One day Bruce Kumar Frantzis asked an old man about the application of the Taiji "needle at the bottom of the sea" in a park, while the old man tried to answer his question, Bruce moved behind the old man and gave that old man a "bear hug", he then said, "What will you do now?". After the old man took him down, Bruce asked what move did the old man used on him. The old man told him to figure it out by himself. The old man then left.

Old saying said, "If you want to teach someone, you don't fight him. If you want to fight someone, you don't teach him." Nobody will teach you how to fight if he thinks that you may fight him one day.

 

[drop bear]

Will you be able to learn "hip throw" from just wrestling with someone?

I know a guy who has trained for 6 years. He loved sparring/wrestling. During sparring/wrestling, he always used his speed, power, and endurance. After 6 years, he still could not even apply a basic "hip throw" on any resisted opponent. It was very difficult to take him down, but he had not yet developed any skills to take his opponents down either.

You can "test" your skill in sparring/wrestling, but you can't "develop" your skill from sparring/wrestling. You can only develop your skill from "partner training".

One day Bruce Kumar Frantzis asked an old man about the application of the Taiji "needle at the bottom of the sea" in a park, while the old man tried to answer his question, Bruce moved behind the old man and gave that old man a "bear hug", he then said, "What will you do now?". After the old man took him down, Bruce asked what move did the old man used on him. The old man told him to figure it out by himself. The old man then left.

Old saying said, "If you want to teach someone, you don't fight him. If you want to fight someone, you don't teach him." Nobody will teach you how to fight if he thinks that you may fight him one day.

conversely can you get a hip throw on a guy reliably after just drilling it. I know i couldn't because there is the mechanics of the hip throw and then there is the timing and opportunity.

then when i could get a hip throw to work i couldn't get it to work on good judo guys. So i imagine there will be another level to reach.

In our gym we had a bjjer train for a day,spar our coach,and at the end of the session say.
"I don't understand. I did everything i was supposed to but nothing seemed to work"

His system was fine, his training was fine, he had just come across a better martial artist.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If your opponent is much better than you and when you spar/wrestle with him, the record is always 15-0 (I like 15 rounds testing), after 3 years of such sparring/wrestling, he can destroy your self-confidence big time. Can you learn something? May be. But the amount of "self-confidence lose" can be much more than the experience that you may gain.

I don't like the term "invest in lose". If a girl has turned you down all the time, you may lose confidence to date other girls. Some people can get back up after been defeated. Some people cannot. In wrestling, a strong right hand person can change a weak right hand person to be a left hand person. Some people may not like to be forced to change.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Sparring someone lesser experienced and skills can also benefit you because then you can do some things you can not usually pull off on more skilled than you, which you then get better at and will thus have a better chance of doing it with a more experience opponent.

Yeah, what I tell people is this:

You need to spar people who are better than you - to expose your weaknesses, work your defense, learn by osmosis, and to generally stay humble.

You need to spar people who are worse than you - to work your offense and get reps polishing techniques you haven't yet fully mastered.

You need to spar people who are about your level - to get a little bit of competitive fire going and motivate yourself. ("Last week I was tapping him out. This week he's tapping me out! Next week I need to train harder and catch up!")

 

[Steve]

No.but I still have to fight someone good. So i can learn a move of youtube. But the test is when i can do it. And it is the quality of that guy that raises my standards.

A friend who is an MMAist told me that if you want to keep growing, and you're the toughest cat in your gym, you need to find a new gym. "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." Right?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You need to spar people who are worse than you - to work your offense and get reps polishing techniques you haven't yet fully mastered.

Agree and this is a very important point. The 1st time that you ever make your technique to work against a fully resisted opponent was always be used against a weak opponent.

If you try to take an elephant down and fail 10,000 times, you may think that's your take down skill has problem. You may not think that because that elephant is just too huge.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A friend who is an MMAist told me that if you want to keep growing, and you're the toughest cat in your gym, you need to find a new gym. "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." Right?

To spar/wrestle against a stranger is always easier than to spar/wrestle against an old training partner. Since your old training partner may already familiar with your "set up", your old skill may not work well on him any more. This will force you to develop new skills in order to be able to deal with someone who is familiar with your skill. So to stay in your old gym and force yourself to develop new skills is always good. If you go to a new gym, since your old skill may work well again, it may take your a long time for you to understand that it's about time for you to develop new skill again.